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OT: Bolt "I'm a legend. I知 also the greatest athlete to live"

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Old
08-15-2012, 04:46 PM
  #76
Tadite
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
[B]Is he the fastest human? I am not so certain.
That whole argument is silly.

The ThrustSSC is the fastest car in the world. It holds the world record and is literally supersonic. It can't win the Dakar Rally or the WRC. It's never going to be a F1 champion and LeMans isn't in the cards.

That doesn't' change that in you want to have a land speed record it's the car to beat. Your argument of "But, but, but, but he isn't fastest is every single thing that can or could be done in all history." Is just silly. So... "fastest man in the world" goes to the fastest sprinter in the 100m. The guy with the world record is likely the fastest person, ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
You make a solid point in saying that I simply don't understand how famous he is.


Or what he's done. He's just achieved a level of physical dominance that's nothing short of amazing. If he had lived in ancient Greece they'd be writing him into the Iliad as a demi-god. Simply saying "you don't follow track" is a little bit of a put down for one of the most amazing athletic achievements, ever. You don't need to follow baseball to know how Babe Ruth is or boxing for Ali or hockey for 99 or basketball for MJ.

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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
(to the best of my knowledge) and that he is also only the "greatest athlete of all time" in the events in which he has competed and not the entire world of track and field let alone of all time.
I don't think you can take a joke. One line, increasingly over-hyped, doesn't mean anything. Mostly he, like the world, says the decathletes are the best overall athletes. But, you know, heaven forbid someone being excited after achieving one of the most amazing things ever.

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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
in line with what you think about this subject as being indignant and racist.
Well... sure don't see these same types of pretend outrage when white athletes say things (and no your one or two examples doesn't really outweigh the amazingly large amount on the other side). Do tend to see if all the time when black athletes do.

This is cliche tabloid fodder and it's embarrassing that we still have this in the 21st century.

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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
He has an extra bone in his ankle that gives him an advantage over his fellow athletes? Who knew about this and how in the world would an extra bone help him run faster? Sounds fishy to me.
You must be joking. I'm really hoping all of this was sarcastic. You understand where that comes from.... right?

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Old
08-15-2012, 05:07 PM
  #77
kingsfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tadite View Post
Well... sure don't see these same types of pretend outrage when white athletes say things (and no your one or two examples doesn't really outweigh the amazingly large amount on the other side). Do tend to see if all the time when black athletes do.
This is just a general stereotype with zero facts to it. Where has it been shown or proven that black athletes comments are more scrutinized or lended to more outrage than white athletes, especially in the past 40 years when issues of legitimate racism were greatly reduced?

To insinuate that there is a general bigotry towards black athletes today by the media is unfounded and unsupported. You can have your own 'opinion' but there is no factual evidence to support such a claim.

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Old
08-15-2012, 05:52 PM
  #78
Tadite
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
This is just a general stereotype with zero facts to it
So... what you're really saying is that the 50 years of research on this subject doesn't exist. Because you don't like one of the most common examples of stereotypes in existence, and most researched, nor the decades of work on it and the multitude of associated beliefs (which are wrong...) such as "black people are more athletic".

I'd start with just ( it's not like your going to go to a library so I really shouldn't bother):
Byers, W. (1995). Unsportmanlike conduct: Exploiting college athletes. Ann
Arbor, MI: University of Michigan Press.
Coakley, J. (2004). Sports in society: Issues and controversies (8th ed.). New
York: McGraw-Hill.
Devine, P. G. (1989). Stereotypes and prejudices: Their automatic and con-
trolled components. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 56(1),
5-18.
Entine, J. (2000). Taboo: Why Black athletes dominate sports and why we are
afraid to talk about it. New York: Public Affairs.
Goldsmith, P. (2003). Race relations and racial patterns in schools sports par-
ticipation. Sociology of Sport Journal, 20, 147-171.
Miller, P. B. (1998). The anatomy of scientific racism: Racialist responses to
Black athletic achievement. Journal of Sport History, 25(1), 119-151.

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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
. Where has it been shown or proven that black athletes comments are more scrutinized or lended to more outrage than white athletes
Lots of places.

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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
, especially in the past 40 years when issues of legitimate racism were greatly reduced?
Reduced doesn't mean none. God knows I should never talk about race on the internet, and didn't even bring it up, so not sure why your jumping on me. But I'd suggest that with the rise of neo-nazi political parties (hello Golden Dawn!) in Europe picking up 10% of the popular vote and light fascists making a move for majority governments, legitimate racism is on the rise globally.

World Value Survey shows a clear increase in racist thought and ideology globally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
To insinuate that there is a general bigotry towards black athletes today by the media is unfounded and unsupported.
Lots of support. 5 seconds of research could find more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
You can have your own 'opinion' but there is no factual evidence to support such a claim.
Instead of 'opinion' I'm going to just stick in 'commonly well research and known fact.'


Actually on second thought. That's the last post. Someone wants to downplay one of the greatest athletes of our time. That's fine with me. I don't really care and I shouldn't have even touched the race thing (which I didn't bring up). First rule of the internet is: Never talk about race. I just let myself get annoyed when people ignore decades of research but to be honest. Who cares? People can do, or say, or think, whatever they want. Reality isn't all that relevant most of the time and it's irrelevant on the internet.


Last edited by Tadite: 08-15-2012 at 07:19 PM. Reason: Second Thoughts
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Old
08-16-2012, 12:53 PM
  #79
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[QUOTE=Tadite;53602931]That whole argument is silly.

The ThrustSSC is the fastest car in the world. It holds the world record and is literally supersonic. It can't win the Dakar Rally or the WRC. It's never going to be a F1 champion and LeMans isn't in the cards.

That doesn't' change that in you want to have a land speed record it's the car to beat. Your argument of "But, but, but, but he isn't fastest is every single thing that can or could be done in all history." Is just silly. So... "fastest man in the world" goes to the fastest sprinter in the 100m. The guy with the world record is likely the fastest person, ever.

This is a totally contrary way of looking at things in my opinion and that is where we differ. Simply because I disagree with the notion that the only fastest person in the world of Olympic competition has to be the winner of the 100m dash doesn't make make me wrong or you right. What it does is make a debatable position.

Your fastest car in the world analogy only further proves my point. It is like saying that the fastest drag race car in the world is the only fastest car in the world when there are several other cars that will go much faster than a drag race car in different means of competition.

If your position was that Bolt was the quickest man to ever compete in the Olympics I would absolutely agree with you. Fastest and quickest are clearly two different measurements of speed and the 100m accurately measures the quickest Olympic athlete (the person who can get up to top speed in the shortest amount of time) it doesn't accurately measure who is the fastest.

From the start of this debate my position has been that Bolt simply isn't capable of calling himself the greatest athlete of all time or that it is right to call him the fastest man in history because we have no way of knowing if someone has ever been faster throughout human history nor is he the fastest human beyond 100m. There are legitimate variables to factor in and their validity is beyond reproach.

Is Bolt the fastest man ever to compete at the Olympics in the 100m dash yes, and by a long shot it looks like in his sport but that doesn't make him the fastest man on earth, only the fastest at his particular arena of competition. He is like every other Olympic competitor that sets any world record at any event, they are the best at that particular event in Olympic history, that is a fact but that is also all that they have accomplished.



Or what he's done. He's just achieved a level of physical dominance that's nothing short of amazing. If he had lived in ancient Greece they'd be writing him into the Iliad as a demi-god. Simply saying "you don't follow track" is a little bit of a put down for one of the most amazing athletic achievements, ever. You don't need to follow baseball to know how Babe Ruth is or boxing for Ali or hockey for 99 or basketball for MJ.

Again, my position would be that while Bolt's accomplishment(s) in his area's of competition are nothing short of amazing, they aren't the best way or only way of determining who might actually be the fastest human to ever live nor do they make him the greatest athlete of all time.

I simply am not a summer Olympics guy. It isn't a put down to me by not being aware of Bolt beyond what I picked up while drinking coffee for ten minutes one morning, it is a statement of fact. Where I live it wasn't big news at all. I can tell you all about what everyone involved with the hockey team in St Johns is up to during the summer but beyond that and other hockey related issues I am a involved in other things and simply don't really care about the other sports.


I don't think you can take a joke. One line, increasingly over-hyped, doesn't mean anything. Mostly he, like the world, says the decathletes are the best overall athletes. But, you know, heaven forbid someone being excited after achieving one of the most amazing things ever.

I responded to what Bolt has said when I heard/read it without knowing anything about him or his sport. I responded to what he had said and how it was received by the reporter who wrote about it. It was never mentioned that Bolt was or might have been joking.

Had they and other media outlets since then said that he was joking I wouldn't have responded. I can take a joke, in this case someone should have let the rest of us in on it I guess. To the very casual observer he sure looked serious.



Well... sure don't see these same types of pretend outrage when white athletes say things (and no your one or two examples doesn't really outweigh the amazingly large amount on the other side). Do tend to see if all the time when black athletes do.

Alright I suppose but it hasn't anything in the slightest bit to do with what I have written in this thread nor does it even belong being in our discussion due to the fact that I have never said one thing Bolt as anyone other than an athlete who made a stupid comment. To bring up race is simply a racist thing to me. It assumes that my position and the positions of those who say anything contrary on the matter are racist and that seems like a kind of racist thing to do without at the very least knowing the other posters personally.

As to your position regarding preferential treatment of white athlete's all that I can say is that it happens everywhere and it is a shameful thing. But then I have never once even alluded to thinking anything different so again, I don't see why race/color has to be brought into this debate at all.

I responded to what the athlete Bolt had said, I don't know him as a person and haven't any opinion about who he is other than his statement regarding his being the greatest athlete to ever live. Who he is outside of the Olympic athlete that made a ridiculous statement doesn't matter to me at all. If he had been any race creed or color I would have had the exact same response to what was said.



This is cliche tabloid fodder and it's embarrassing that we still have this in the 21st century.

I agree. I will only add that Bolt said what he said and it being reported, while annoying was a correct statement of fact. A thread was made here and people responded to it. Right or wrong Bolt is responsible for making the statement(s). You follow his sport exceedingly more closely then I do and are in doing so privy to all of the nuances of the particular athletes involved. I can only take what was said at face value. What was said was reported in the sports pages of several major papers and here we are.



You must be joking. I'm really hoping all of this was sarcastic. You understand where that comes from.... right?

No, it wasn't sarcastic. I am absolutely unaware that any human has an extra bone in their feet that makes them run faster. If I don't follow Bolt's sport at all how would I know that he has an extra bone in his foot? Why would I have to be being sarcastic about not knowing this? I mean do you know that I have over 17 different metal pins in my body holding different bones and bits together?

A few of them make it to where I can still skate pretty well all these years after the injury that caused them to be placed in my body. Should you know that fact about me or care about it all? Besides, how would having an extra bone in your foot make you run faster? Like I said, it sounds at best to be a suspicious statement but then again, if it is true I would believe that the Olympics wouldn't have allowed the guy to compete at all.

My position has been throughout this debate that what Bolt said was ridiculous and that is all that I am saying. I have responded to some of the ancillary points that you and a couple of other posters have brought up along the way but the meat of this entire silly debate is that an Olympic athlete said something ridiculous in my opinion and that is the entirety of what I believe about the matter, nothing more, nothing less.


Last edited by etherialone: 08-16-2012 at 01:14 PM.
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Old
08-16-2012, 01:19 PM
  #80
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ya'll mother****ers need jeeeeessuuuus

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