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Windsor Spitfires completely deny all accusations put forward by OHL

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08-15-2012, 03:23 PM
  #76
Crottenham
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
You're suggesting penalizing a player for doing nothing wrong. The players, whoever they are, have not broken any OHL/CHL rules. Why on earth would you suspend an active player or penalize a current player for what an alumni has done?
Penn State just did it.....different circumstances and I hear you, but it appears they felt that was their only recourse there.

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08-15-2012, 03:32 PM
  #77
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Another example would be, is it the players business knowing how many other gold education packages were handed out? Are they suppose to track of this before accepting theirs? Are imports suppose to know what OHL mandates there are for family travel expendatures? I would think the players put their faith in the team for knowing and following these rules. Do you punish the player(s) for ignorance? Some of these violations could be things that are not mainstream things that every player on the team would/should know.

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08-15-2012, 03:39 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
You're suggesting penalizing a player for doing nothing wrong. The players, whoever they are, have not broken any OHL/CHL rules. Why on earth would you suspend an active player or penalize a current player for what an alumni has done?
You have to make a punishment that gets the point across. That's what those types of NCAA sanctions are made for. Yes you would be punishing players that had nothing to do with a violation of the rules, but it would be a future deterant for management. One year of a team being banned from the post season will hurt attendane, as well as scare away top end talent long enough to stop a team from breaking the rules twice. Putting a rule like this in place would also create the accountability I was talking about. Do you want to be the guy that ruins a chance at a playoff run for your teamates or will you think twice about taking the improper benifits?

Of course you could just be selfish (which alot of players would be) and break the rules. Nothing like burning bridges to endear you to your fanbase.

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08-15-2012, 07:44 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Kingpin794 View Post
You have to make a punishment that gets the point across. That's what those types of NCAA sanctions are made for. Yes you would be punishing players that had nothing to do with a violation of the rules, but it would be a future deterant for management. One year of a team being banned from the post season will hurt attendane, as well as scare away top end talent long enough to stop a team from breaking the rules twice. Putting a rule like this in place would also create the accountability I was talking about. Do you want to be the guy that ruins a chance at a playoff run for your teamates or will you think twice about taking the improper benifits?

Of course you could just be selfish (which alot of players would be) and break the rules. Nothing like burning bridges to endear you to your fanbase.
This isn't boosters giving things to players without the team's knowledge. This is the team paying players when they shouldn't be. Unless a fan base is really daft, they're going to understand that the team is to blame for this situation.

And the punishment handed down should cause other teams to at least think twice before offering the same sorts of benefits. All it takes is one relationship to sour and you can have a player providing all the evidence the league needs to drop the hammer on a team.

I really do hope London and Kitchener are next. Everyone knows that those two teams, along with Windsor, are the three worst offenders. There may be some other teams also involved in these activities, but they either haven't had the success or don't have the money to compete.

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08-15-2012, 11:38 PM
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For me i don't see how such a thing can happen now a days after all most players are represented by a agent and most agents either have a law degree or have lawyers on hand and they know what rules to follow to sign a player to an OHL or CHL contract. And don't you think either the players agent or the lawyer would notice if something was fishy or not or were they apart of it?

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08-16-2012, 06:04 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by HLLYWD99 View Post
The trouble is that we don't know what they did or who they did it with! If you are going to punish an organization publicly you damn well better explain the reason for the punishment!

Branch and the OHL have a serious GOD COMPLEX.
I totally agree and add one more thing? im a true believer that OHl players get paid and they do but not enough overagers get $150- and everyother player get 50 i believe that Bob Boughner should pursue legal matters against the ohl

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08-16-2012, 06:22 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by dispatch50 View Post
For me i don't see how such a thing can happen now a days after all most players are represented by a agent and most agents either have a law degree or have lawyers on hand and they know what rules to follow to sign a player to an OHL or CHL contract. And don't you think either the players agent or the lawyer would notice if something was fishy or not or were they apart of it?
This just in: Lawyers and Agents like money

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Originally Posted by halloffame View Post
I totally agree and add one more thing? im a true believer that OHl players get paid and they do but not enough overagers get $150- and everyother player get 50 i believe that Bob Boughner should pursue legal matters against the ohl
It's more of a living allowance..not really considered pay.

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08-16-2012, 06:28 AM
  #83
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I have to say something-- The ohl crack down on Windsor is dumb founded- this is all about the NCAA losing players who had verbal agreements to play at major college program. The NCAA only give drafted players 48 hours to stay in Major A camps or risk losing their scholarship. So if a player is drafted by ohl team and says that he doesnt intend to report but go the college route, doesnt it make sense for the ohl team to purse him and should they also not offer a package that will bring him to their club. Athlete in the NCAA are not allowed to financial means like a job while on scholarship, yet none athletes can???? Dave branch says that we have to maintain integrety in the game and make sure we have a level playing field, thats a bunch of tommyraut for lack of a better term.So if a player is drafted and is pursued to play junior rather than play NCAA and offered money, that how the business world works its allowed in the NHl so why is it so corrupt when a ohl team or any other team does it-The NCAA should make the grass on their side alittle more greener for athletes than complain what organization are doing out side of the NCAA- Bougner i believe should file a lawsuit against the ohl. Max Domi said he was going NCAA ,Kingston drafted him and didnt report and kingston received a first rounder the following yr from the ohl and came to london some thing smell here and in the ohl sniff sniff

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08-16-2012, 06:37 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by PhlyerPhanatic View Post
This just in: Lawyers and Agents like money

It's more of a living allowance..not really considered pay.
we can call it whatever you want their paid by the organization by cheque and legally cinsidered an employee under the labour laws of Ontario, therefore i say that bob bougner has to pursue this in court- Dave branch is denying ohl players rights that every employee has the right to and that is eages for services rendered.

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08-16-2012, 06:50 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by halloffame View Post
we can call it whatever you want their paid by the organization by cheque and legally cinsidered an employee under the labour laws of Ontario, therefore i say that bob bougner has to pursue this in court- Dave branch is denying ohl players rights that every employee has the right to and that is eages for services rendered.
The only way they are considered an employee is if they are named on a payroll..which I doubt is the case..labour laws or not. The funds come from a team expense account..not payroll issued. Therefore not technically "employees" in the definition.

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08-16-2012, 07:07 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by halloffame View Post
I have to say something-- The ohl crack down on Windsor is dumb founded- this is all about the NCAA losing players who had verbal agreements to play at major college program. The NCAA only give drafted players 48 hours to stay in Major A camps or risk losing their scholarship. So if a player is drafted by ohl team and says that he doesnt intend to report but go the college route, doesnt it make sense for the ohl team to purse him and should they also not offer a package that will bring him to their club. Athlete in the NCAA are not allowed to financial means like a job while on scholarship, yet none athletes can???? Dave branch says that we have to maintain integrety in the game and make sure we have a level playing field, thats a bunch of tommyraut for lack of a better term.So if a player is drafted and is pursued to play junior rather than play NCAA and offered money, that how the business world works its allowed in the NHl so why is it so corrupt when a ohl team or any other team does it-The NCAA should make the grass on their side alittle more greener for athletes than complain what organization are doing out side of the NCAA- Bougner i believe should file a lawsuit against the ohl. Max Domi said he was going NCAA ,Kingston drafted him and didnt report and kingston received a first rounder the following yr from the ohl and came to london some thing smell here and in the ohl sniff sniff
The question that I would have is this: are the "illegal practices" benefitting the team by making them a "super team", or is it simply making an undecided player choose the OHL over the NCAA?

If it is for the first (making a super team with the best possible selection of players by manipulating the draft -both the Priority Selection and Import), or offering huge monetary inducements to players to ask for trades to super teams, then I think it is fair for the OHL governors to try and level the playing field for all the teams.

If the charge involves luring a truly NCAA player committed to a US college (not a draft manipulator) then I am not as sure that the charges (whatever they may be) are as fair.

These two points are being thrown in the pot together but in my opinion, they are two very separate issues that make for two very separate conclusions. To keep the OHL competitive (and more enjoyable for the fans and players) the league needs to be able to have some control over the creation of super teams and the disparity between the haves and have-nots. As a fan, you'd like to see games where the outcome is not always a given and as a player you'd like to be selected for a team for the same reason.

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08-16-2012, 07:45 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by PhlyerPhanatic View Post
The only way they are considered an employee is if they are named on a payroll..which I doubt is the case..labour laws or not. The funds come from a team expense account..not payroll issued. Therefore not technically "employees" in the definition.
Not really correct. The CRA has a number of factors they consider when determining if someone is an employee or not. Do they have a permanent establishment (office, stall) with the employer for example? Do they take instruction on a regular basis from the employer? Do they have other means of income?

One can be paid via Accounts Payable after presenting an invoice similiar to a consultant, but still ultimately be deemed to be an employee by CRA.

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08-16-2012, 07:47 AM
  #88
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WOW. An argument could be made that Windsor doesn't come back against Kitchener down 3-1 without Fowler in 2010.


Really? I'm interested in hearing your argument that the Spitfires wouldn't have come back to defeat the Rangers in that series without Fowler.

Even if the Spits didn't come back, I'm sure the Rangers would have brushed aside the Colts in the league finals that season - much like Windsor did.

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08-16-2012, 08:05 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by PhlyerPhanatic View Post
The only way they are considered an employee is if they are named on a payroll..which I doubt is the case..labour laws or not. The funds come from a team expense account..not payroll issued. Therefore not technically "employees" in the definition.
Can injured hockey players claim Workmans Compensation?

Yeah....I didn't think so!

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08-16-2012, 08:15 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by againsttheboards View Post
The question that I would have is this: are the "illegal practices" benefitting the team by making them a "super team", or is it simply making an undecided player choose the OHL over the NCAA?

If it is for the first (making a super team with the best possible selection of players by manipulating the draft -both the Priority Selection and Import), or offering huge monetary inducements to players to ask for trades to super teams, then I think it is fair for the OHL governors to try and level the playing field for all the teams.

If the charge involves luring a truly NCAA player committed to a US college (not a draft manipulator) then I am not as sure that the charges (whatever they may be) are as fair.

These two points are being thrown in the pot together but in my opinion, they are two very separate issues that make for two very separate conclusions. To keep the OHL competitive (and more enjoyable for the fans and players) the league needs to be able to have some control over the creation of super teams and the disparity between the haves and have-nots. As a fan, you'd like to see games where the outcome is not always a given and as a player you'd like to be selected for a team for the same reason.

really......you think teams are just trying to help the players choose the OHL... open the eyes and have a look around the whole CHL. the Saint john sea dogs had 9 players that were committed to the NCAA, and MIRACULOUSLY, they all changed their minds to go play in the Q. People have to be senile to believe that there is no money involved. out of 60+ teams in the CHL, it's always the same 8-10 teams that manage to change the players minds!!!!! wow....can you imagine the luck of those teams!!!!! To be soooo lucky that you are getting players to change their mind on their complete hockey career route, simply by using a good speech and a good walk around the city and the arena!!! All within the rules right )) GOOD FOR THE OHL to penalize a team, that are obviously buying players. I would hope that the Q, and the W take notice and they can also try to level the playing field with their teams as well.

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08-16-2012, 10:19 AM
  #91
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^This is another reason why this is ridiculous - it's an OHL only crackdown. Meaning Branch is putting the OHL at a disadvantage come the Memorial Cup because the McCain Sea Dogs (for one) are working without a salary cap.

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08-16-2012, 11:58 AM
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^This is another reason why this is ridiculous - it's an OHL only crackdown. Meaning Branch is putting the OHL at a disadvantage come the Memorial Cup because the McCain Sea Dogs (for one) are working without a salary cap.
great article for Spits fans to read

http://www2.canada.com/windsor/winds...a2a154bd36&p=1

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08-16-2012, 01:20 PM
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great article for Spits fans to read

http://www2.canada.com/windsor/winds...a2a154bd36&p=1
that is a great article....amazing how players only realized that the CHL was the quickest way to the NHL after their rights were acquired by windsor!!!! lets see...what else was a great quote that's full of sh$t... "i couldnt believe all the players that were getting drafted from the CHL" said the innocent kid after attending the NHL draft! What the hell....were you sleeping the past 15years?

i can only speak for the Q, but, all those leagues are essentially 2 tier leagues, some even 3 tier leagues. In the Q, you have Saint john (which are the worst by far), moncton, halifax and quebec. Second tier you would have teams such as rimouski, blainville, gatineau, etc...etc.. then you have the community teams i call....baie comeau, PEI, val d'or, rouyn Noranda, cape breton, bathurst....

The funny thing is that all those teams say that the only thing they offer the players are education packages. REALLY..... lets see....cam fowler, jack campbell, etc..etc. 99% of those players will never use the education package! Most will be in the NHL or will at least have signed a 6 or most likely 7 figure signing bonus anyway!! So essentially you mean to tell me they are going to a place like windsor on the goodwill of the owners offering the package in case they ever decide to use it?????

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08-16-2012, 02:43 PM
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Can injured hockey players claim Workmans Compensation?

Yeah....I didn't think so!
Who's point are you attempting to dispel?

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08-16-2012, 03:02 PM
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Who's point are you attempting to dispel?
Just saying they're not employees!....so I guess I agree with your p.o.v.!
(I'm assuming they don't collect it and I've never heard this question ever asked in regards to athletes)

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08-16-2012, 03:17 PM
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Just saying they're not employees!....so I guess I agree with your p.o.v.!
(I'm assuming they don't collect it and I've never heard this question ever asked in regards to athletes)
I would think athletes(pro,amateur,rewarded,whatever you wanna define them as) wouldn't fall under the same body that would encompass those protected by labour laws. Could you imagine the unlawful dismissal cases if they did? lol

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08-16-2012, 03:22 PM
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Just saying they're not employees!....so I guess I agree with your p.o.v.!
(I'm assuming they don't collect it and I've never heard this question ever asked in regards to athletes)
Good players have insurance policies in place in case they get injured,not sure about workers comp. but back in the day you used to get seperation papers and be able to collect E.I. in the summer months while playing in the OHL.

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08-16-2012, 03:32 PM
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I would think athletes(pro,amateur,rewarded,whatever you wanna define them as) wouldn't fall under the same body that would encompass those protected by labour laws. Could you imagine the unlawful dismissal cases if they did? lol

"You can't release me.................who cares that I have .845 save percentage I have more damn seniority!"


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08-16-2012, 03:50 PM
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Good players have insurance policies in place in case they get injured,not sure about workers comp. but back in the day you used to get seperation papers and be able to collect E.I. in the summer months while playing in the OHL.
Don't all players have insurance under Hockey Canada?

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08-16-2012, 04:38 PM
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Don't all players have insurance under Hockey Canada?
I'm sure Hockey has some kind of insurance in place for players but you used to able to get a loss of income insurance package that would pay you a large amount of cash if you had a carreer ending injury etc.Plus the education package. Not sure what the OHL rules and limitations are now.

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