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next seasons roster. thoughts?

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Old
08-15-2012, 11:20 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Red Haired Shanks View Post
given the history with bolland and how heated that rivalry is he would be rejected. comparing duco a nobody who the canucks dont care about enough to resign him or keep him with the club permanently to bolland one of the most hated people in vancouver is dumb. he would be rejected im 100% sure about this
Fans don't cheer for players, they cheer for teams. Bolland making some childish comments about the Canucks isn't going to stop them from rooting for a player in a Canuck uniform.

And there's no way the players would reject him. Grown men don't hold grudges. They just don't.

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08-16-2012, 01:53 PM
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I dislike any idea or Malhotra playing anything more than 4th line minutes.

The way I see the line up
Sedin Sedin Burrows 6.1 6.1 2
Booth Kesler Kassian 4.2 5 .870
Higgins Schroeder Hansen 1.9 1.025 1.35
Malhotra Lapierre Raymond 2.5 1 2.225
Weise Volpatti .615 .600

Edler Garrison 3.25 4.6
Hamhuis Bieksa 4.5 4.6
Ballard Tanev 4.2 .900
Alberts 1.225

Schneider 4
Luongo 5.33

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08-16-2012, 02:49 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Fans don't cheer for players, they cheer for teams. Bolland making some childish comments about the Canucks isn't going to stop them from rooting for a player in a Canuck uniform.

And there's no way the players would reject him. Grown men don't hold grudges. They just don't.
really they dont cheer for players? i guess thats why everybody hates mayray and dont cheer for him. im adamant in my decision that bolland would be hated. we can agree to disagree

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08-16-2012, 03:10 PM
  #29
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Terrell Owens went from Philly to the Cowboys and the fans cheered him. Drop the Sopel is 100% right here: they cheer for the jersey first. If that can happen, then something as small as Bolland switching from Chi to Van is completely inconsequential.

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08-16-2012, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Red Haired Shanks View Post
really they dont cheer for players? i guess thats why everybody hates mayray and dont cheer for him. im adamant in my decision that bolland would be hated. we can agree to disagree


You are not alone in your viewpoint.

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08-16-2012, 05:34 PM
  #31
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You are not alone in your viewpoint.
I share it. The last player the Canucks signed that was disliked before he came here was Mark Messier. Look how well that worked out. Not sure if Canucks rep can get worse but Bollard is what everyone outside of Vancouver thinks Burrows is. A agitator who never has and never will back himself up. Also injury prone to boot. Publically insulted character of Canucks best player's. Surely there is someone in the league we can get who is not and has not done all these things. Hamhuis ramming his head into the boards after he came back from concussion was a thing of beauty. Anyone but Bolland and Marchant is fine with me.

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08-16-2012, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Red Haired Shanks View Post
to be fair to kassian he didnt get many chances last year to make himself a prominent player. plus when coho joined the roster the first year he wasnt good at all. then after a full season we all thought he was great then he got traded. i think kassian can do the same thing. i agree he hasnt shown much but he was brought to the team to protect the sedins and become a mean powerforward. i think if he gets more chances in the top 6 he will impress. also the sedins have been getting shutdown because they dont have a big guy that crashes the net. kassian can do that plus both sedins need space and with kassian taking people out then have more space.

the 3rd line looks good to me. its not a tough line but defs a good line. that line can be a 2nd line on most teams.

to the booth comment he was injured though half the season, just when he started getting going he got injured then kesler was producing so our whole 2nd line was in shambles.

and luo isnt a lost cause. we can keep him until we get a good return for him or maybe even trade schneider if luo shows him up.
False.

I'm sure Gillis had zero thoughts of Kassian "protecting" the Sedins when he made the trade. The Sedins don't need protecting—they do a fine job taking care of themselves. Plus, throwing a bigger player on that line will not prevent flying elbows, or other cheapshots.

The best way to avoid having players hassle the Sedins is to have someone on the team to hassle the other team's stars, not breaking up a highly effective line in Sedins/Burrows and placing a less adaptable player with them.

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08-16-2012, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Fans don't cheer for players, they cheer for teams. Bolland making some childish comments about the Canucks isn't going to stop them from rooting for a player in a Canuck uniform.

And there's no way the players would reject him. Grown men don't hold grudges. They just don't.


Any idea of getting Bolland is a no go in my mind do to that.

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08-16-2012, 05:57 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Catamarca Livin View Post
I share it. The last player the Canucks signed that was disliked before he came here was Mark Messier. Look how well that worked out. Not sure if Canucks rep can get worse but Bollard is what everyone outside of Vancouver thinks Burrows is. A agitator who never has and never will back himself up. Also injury prone to boot. Publically insulted character of Canucks best player's. Surely there is someone in the league we can get who is not and has not done all these things. Hamhuis ramming his head into the boards after he came back from concussion was a thing of beauty. Anyone but Bolland and Marchant is fine with me.
Exactly. The guy is filth.

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08-16-2012, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post

Any idea of getting Bolland is a no go in my mind do to that.


AV at his most eloquent.

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08-16-2012, 06:05 PM
  #36
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You know the biggest advantage of having a number of large players is that they do not need protecting. Kassian does not need protection Hodgson would have. Jeff Carter would not hurt a fly but is big enough no one is trying to hurt him either. If you look at the King team, they had basically no enforcer type player Matt Greene is mean and can fight a bit but would not fight Kassian. The thing the Kings have no players who need to be protected. Kopitar, Doughty are big and physical enough. There is no Sedin. Kassian is not here to protect the Sedins but is another player who does not need protecting and can settle down the odd player who will fight. Of course guys like D.Brown, Bolland etc. will not so having a fighter does not do much against them.

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08-16-2012, 06:38 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by vector209 View Post
Terrell Owens went from Philly to the Cowboys and the fans cheered him. Drop the Sopel is 100% right here: they cheer for the jersey first. If that can happen, then something as small as Bolland switching from Chi to Van is completely inconsequential.
Yup.

Just like Oiler fans claiming they would never want Ryan Kesler in an Oiler uniform and how hated he would be if he went to Edmonton. In reality the guy would be a fan favourite within the first week of being there...

Todd Bertuzzi was absolutely loathed by fans around the league at the time he was dealt and has been treated famously everywhere he's gone. The same can be said for virtually every other player with a bad reputation that has switched teams.

Can someone come up with a couple examples of players that went to new teams only to be rejected by the fanbase? I can't think of a single instance where this has happened in the last decade...

It's the players that are hated by their own team that you want to avoid. Being hated by other teams is a quality you absolutely want in your players - it shows a competitive nature and win at all costs mentality that you should always be looking for.

How many Canuck fans still despise Max Lapierre?

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08-16-2012, 06:47 PM
  #38
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^
Have any of those players publicly (and unjustly) ridiculed some of the classiest players in the league for a couple of cheap laughs? Who does that? The guy is a POS. No way around it.

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08-16-2012, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by andbreatheme View Post
^
Have any of those players publicly (and unjustly) ridiculed some of the classiest players in the league for a couple of cheap laughs? Who does that? The guy is the definition of a disgusting degenerate.

Oh c'mon, I'm sure him and AV would get along like gangbusters...


You know when Gillis repeatedly talks about "the room this... the room that," I'm sure it's all crap. Lip service as it were.


Fans never turned on Messier, nope, nada, didn't happen. By the way, when is the Messier statue going up in front of the building? Ring of honour? I've been waiting...


Crazy talk mang.

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08-16-2012, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Yup.

Just like Oiler fans claiming they would never want Ryan Kesler in an Oiler uniform and how hated he would be if he went to Edmonton. In reality the guy would be a fan favourite within the first week of being there...

Todd Bertuzzi was absolutely loathed by fans around the league at the time he was dealt and has been treated famously everywhere he's gone. The same can be said for virtually every other player with a bad reputation that has switched teams.

Can someone come up with a couple examples of players that went to new teams only to be rejected by the fanbase? I can't think of a single instance where this has happened in the last decade...

It's the players that are hated by their own team that you want to avoid. Being hated by other teams is a quality you absolutely want in your players - it shows a competitive nature and win at all costs mentality that you should always be looking for.

How many Canuck fans still despise Max Lapierre?
Did many Canucks fans despise him before he was a Canuck? He never really played against them enough to get under anyone's skin. I could see why fans of eastern teams might have despised him, though.

I've always been a fan of the pesky francophone players, so I was pretty happy the moment they got him.
I know I didn't, but I've always

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08-16-2012, 06:59 PM
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Fans turned on Messier because he wasn't performing. They cheered him when he came to Vancouver...

Fine, how about just 1 example in the last decade where a fanbase collectively 'rejected' a player.

So do Chicago fans reject Luongo then as well? Because that's what posters on this board seem to think. Which is obviously bull **** IMO.

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08-16-2012, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Fans turned on Messier because he wasn't performing. They cheered him when he came to Vancouver...

Fine, how about just 1 example in the last decade where a fanbase collectively 'rejected' a player.

So do Chicago fans reject Luongo then as well? Because that's what posters on this board seem to think. Which is obviously bull **** IMO.
Name one bad thing Luongo has said about Chicago, their fanbase, or any of their players.

+ many Blackhawk fans are opposed to Luongo unless they're giving up garbage in return; I guess that's what they think of him.

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08-16-2012, 07:04 PM
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Did many Canucks fans despise him before he was a Canuck?
Yes. He was not liked at all by this fanbase prior to coming to Vancouver. Good luck finding a single Canuck fan right now that dislikes the guy.

The crest on the jersey always comes before the name on the back and that goes for every sport. There are countless examples of players going to teams where they were despised only to be treated well right from the get-go.

Winning is what fans care about. If Bolland performs, he will be liked. If he performs in the playoffs, he will be a fan favourite.

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08-16-2012, 07:08 PM
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Name one bad thing Luongo has said about Chicago, their fanbase, or any of their players.
Do fans really care what players have to say? I know I didn't hear any booing after Mike Duco trashed the Sedins, Luongo and the franchise. And he didn't even have the benefit of being a half decent hockey player.

Like I said before, grown men don't hold grudges. If Bolland was hated, it would be a small minority.

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08-16-2012, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Yes. He was not liked at all by this fanbase prior to coming to Vancouver. Good luck finding a single Canuck fan right now that dislikes the guy.

The crest on the jersey always comes before the name on the back and that goes for every sport. There are countless examples of players going to teams where they were despised only to be treated well right from the get-go.

Winning is what fans care about. If Bolland performs, he will be liked. If he performs in the playoffs, he will be a fan favourite.
Strange—I don't recall ever seeing or hearing a negative comment about him when the trade went down, or prior to it, except from fans of eastern teams.

I do remember a large number of Canucks fans who were thrilled that they had finally found a 4th line centre, though.

There would be lots of fans who would never accept Bolland, including myself, no matter how well he performed. Can't respect anyone who would publicly make such awful comments about guys as classy as the Sedins.

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08-16-2012, 07:16 PM
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Name one bad thing Luongo has said about Chicago, their fanbase, or any of their players.

+ many Blackhawk fans are opposed to Luongo unless they're giving up garbage in return; I guess that's what they think of him.

Don't bother ABM. It's such a faulty argument in the first place. How do you quantify/objectify fan rejection? It's pointless to even refute. Does the player get traded if fans throw a hissy fit? No. Do GMs do a fan poll before they make a deal? No. Can you distinguish hate vs "rejection"... no... and so on... = Pointless.


If the management acts independently of fans, how do you objectify hate? It's a spurious argument that should be dismissed as such.



It did remind me of a few names like Larry Murphy, Mark Messier, and Patrice Brisebois right off the hop. The hate for these guys was/is palpable (for different reasons). But the interest was due to a mild curiousity. It's funny when fan hate boils over onto the ice. Carey Price got boo'd outta the rink once. Didn't matter though of course...


Edit: I like when DtS speaks for the entire fanbase, citing that everyone hated Lapierre before he came here. While I'm almost certain I can dig up an old post by myself and NFITO, advocating bringing Lapierre in prior to the deal. I won't do it because of what was said above, but just goes to show what happens when you speak for others...


Last edited by Bleach Clean: 08-16-2012 at 07:21 PM.
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08-16-2012, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Edit: I like when DtS speaks for the entire fanbase, citing that everyone hated Lapierre before he came here. While I'm almost certain I can dig up an old post by myself and NFITO, advocating bringing Lapierre in prior to the deal. I won't do it because of what was said above, but just goes to show what happens when you speak for others...
You misread what I posted - I never said everyone hated Lapierre. The fact is there were a lot of people that didn't like the way he played the game and the general perception of him around the league was not good. Now that he's a Canuck guess which fanbase has the least complaints about Lapierre and his game?

Mark Messier was despised by Canuck fans prior to coming to Vancouver. Yet they couldn't keep Mark Messier Canuck jerseys on the shelves after he signed in Vancouver.

Surely there's a precedent of players being treated poorly when moved to a new team. Hundreds of players have changed hands over the last decade. If someone can give me a handful of decent examples it will hold some weight. Heck, I would settle for one.

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08-16-2012, 07:44 PM
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Don't bother ABM. It's such a faulty argument in the first place. How do you quantify/objectify fan rejection? It's pointless to even refute. Does the player get traded if fans throw a hissy fit? No. Do GMs do a fan poll before they make a deal? No. Can you distinguish hate vs "rejection"... no... and so on... = Pointless.


If the management acts independently of fans, how do you objectify hate? It's a spurious argument that should be dismissed as such.



It did remind me of a few names like Larry Murphy, Mark Messier, and Patrice Brisebois right off the hop. The hate for these guys was/is palpable (for different reasons). But the interest was due to a mild curiousity. It's funny when fan hate boils over onto the ice. Carey Price got boo'd outta the rink once. Didn't matter though of course...


Edit: I like when DtS speaks for the entire fanbase, citing that everyone hated Lapierre before he came here. While I'm almost certain I can dig up an old post by myself and NFITO, advocating bringing Lapierre in prior to the deal. I won't do it because of what was said above, but just goes to show what happens when you speak for others...
Yeah, I remember that I was disappointed when the Ducks got him, and was hoping the Canucks would be able to land Winchester as a consolation prize for the 4th line. Was even happier when the Ducks landed Winchester and shipped Lapierre to the Canucks.

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08-16-2012, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
You misread what I posted - I never said everyone hated Lapierre. The fact is there were a lot of people that didn't like the way he played the game and the general perception of him around the league was not good. Now that he's a Canuck guess which fanbase has the least complaints about Lapierre and his game?

Mark Messier was despised by Canuck fans prior to coming to Vancouver. Yet they couldn't keep Mark Messier Canuck jerseys on the shelves after he signed in Vancouver.

Surely there's a precedent of players being treated poorly when moved to a new team. Hundreds of players have changed hands over the last decade. If someone can give me a handful of decent examples it will hold some weight. Heck, I would settle for one.


It won't hold any weight, just keep pushing your agenda and expect the same fan response you've been getting. Par for the course...


There's no way to answer your question without a huge dose of subjectivity involved. Hence, pointless. Suddenly jersey sales colour the perceptions of an entire fanbase... Mmmmyeah (Did you count every jersey in VAN? Or did you track percentage of sales?). What does fan rejection mean to you anyways? How is it defined? Are jersey sales the hammer? What about what Brisebois and Murphy went through, is that fan rejection? You would have to get a consensus what constitutes fan rejection for this to even begin to become a meaningful conversation. Until then, keep rowing that one paddled boat.


Oh, and how would you interpret this sentence: "He was not liked at all by this fanbase prior to coming to Vancouver" Fanbase, as in it's entirety, one entity. Not some fans, not the majority fans, the entire fanbase. There was no misinterpretation, it was just written poorly. The broad strokes of a stereotype.

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08-16-2012, 08:14 PM
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It won't hold any weight, just keep pushing your agenda and expect the same fan response you've been getting. Par for the course...


There's no way to answer your question without a huge dose of subjectivity involved. Hence, pointless. Suddenly jersey sales colour the perceptions of an entire fanbase... Mmmmyeah (Did you count every jersey in VAN? Or did you track percentage of sales?). What does fan rejection mean to you anyways? How is it defined? Are jersey sales the hammer? What about what Brisebois and Murphy went through, is that fan rejection? You would have to get a consensus what constitutes fan rejection for this even begin to become a meaningful conversation. Until then, keep rowing that boat.

Oh, and how would you interpret this sentence: "He was not liked at all by this fanbase prior to coming to Vancouver" Fanbase, as in it's entirety, one entity. Not some fans, not the majority fans, the entire fanbase. There was no misinterpretation, it was just written poorly.
So you can't come up with a single example in the last decade where a player was treated poorly for fans upon going to a new team?

Nothing more needs to be said.

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