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Roster Thoughts and Offseason Speculation for the 2012-2013 Season III

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Old
08-16-2012, 07:59 PM
  #51
Herby
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With the goofy money thrown around this summer to average players, I have no idea how $4 mill is overpaying for what Wayne Simmonds brings, and his upside is still very high. This guy is a late bloomer, he is still learning and growing into hi frame, he is going to be a force for the life of that contract.

As for the trade. I supported it and still do, it can be argued from both sides, and Brayden Schenn will probably be the deciding factor on who "won" the trade, but Lombardi had no choice, he had to make the deal,there was no way the Kings could enter a 4th season with Stoll as 2nd line center, and waiting for Schenn was to much of a gamble. The Kings were wasting away prime years from Kopitar, Doughty, Johnson, Quick, Brown and Williams because they were unable to find a capable second line center to help out Kopitar in any of his first five years in the NHL. The trade was a no-brainer, even if Richards did struggle for most of the year, he atleast kept teams honest, something Stoll never did and something Schenn is years away from doing. (If he ever does)

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08-16-2012, 08:06 PM
  #52
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Im going to PRETEND to be DL. Just for fun, ya know?

Lineup gonig into 2012-2013 season:

Brown-Kopitar-Williams
Penner-Richards-Carter
King-Stoll-Lewis
Nolan-Fraser-Richardson
Westgarth

Doughty-Scuderi Quick
Mitchell-Voynov Hasek
Martinez-Greene
Drewiske

Trades/Demotions/Signings:

-Gagne traded for either a 2nd round pick (if he plays 70+ games) or a 3rd rounder (If he doesn't).
-Bernier traded for a late round first round pick.
-Clifford demoted to Manchester
-Hasek signed as back-up

Anyone find any flaws with this?

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08-16-2012, 08:13 PM
  #53
Sydor25
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Yes. Gagne will be the third line LW and can fill in for injuries to the top six. Can play on the pp too.

Clifford won't pass through waivers.

Bernier isn't getting a first.

Hasek isn't signing out west to be a backup.

When healthy:

Brown-Kopitar-Williams
Penner-Richards-Carter
Gagne-Stoll-Lewis
King-Fraser-Nolan
Richardson, Clifford

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08-16-2012, 08:20 PM
  #54
deeshamrock
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Anyone find any flaws with this?
Gagne's healthy (and pain free) for the first time in 3 years, he'll be back on the 2nd line where he belongs with Richards. He's a lot faster, and more skilled than Penner. Penner's size makes him a better fit with Stoll on the 3rd line.

I don't see Westgarth being here next year and Clifford will.

Hasek-no thanks

I don't think Bernier gets the Kings a first.

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08-16-2012, 09:00 PM
  #55
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Anyone find any flaws with this?
Massive flaws.

The most obvious is Hasek. Really? He was done 5 years ago, that is just painful bad. If Bernier is traded, I'd rather Jones or any number of other available options. Hasek is nowhere close to an NHL goalie at this point.

Why is the name of hell would we trade Gagne? He will be HUGE on the 2nd or 3rd line, with a full off-season to train for the first time in a long time. At very least he is a 15-15 type player with very very solid defensive awareness, why trade that?

Westgarth should be nowhere near LA. I've said that ad nauseum, he is simply not even close to an NHL player. Clifford can actually play the game of hockey, he will be the extra guy we put in if we need more size and toughness in the corners/out front. NOBODY needs a fighter in today's game.

Clifford will NOT clear waivers.

Drewiske should be replaced by the winner of Hickey/Muzzin training camp battle. Hickey and Muzzin have much more upside, Hickey likely would not clear waivers (possibility Muzzin won't clear as well), one of them needs to be in the NHL, neither will benefit from any more time in AHL. Give the winner the roster spot, probably get 35-50 games this year, the Kings run of defensive healthiness is bound to break soon. Drewiske should clear waivers and can be the #8 in case of injuries.

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08-16-2012, 09:03 PM
  #56
Chazz Reinhold
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
With the goofy money thrown around this summer to average players, I have no idea how $4 mill is overpaying for what Wayne Simmonds brings, and his upside is still very high. This guy is a late bloomer, he is still learning and growing into hi frame, he is going to be a force for the life of that contract.

As for the trade. I supported it and still do, it can be argued from both sides, and Brayden Schenn will probably be the deciding factor on who "won" the trade, but Lombardi had no choice, he had to make the deal,there was no way the Kings could enter a 4th season with Stoll as 2nd line center, and waiting for Schenn was to much of a gamble. The Kings were wasting away prime years from Kopitar, Doughty, Johnson, Quick, Brown and Williams because they were unable to find a capable second line center to help out Kopitar in any of his first five years in the NHL. The trade was a no-brainer, even if Richards did struggle for most of the year, he atleast kept teams honest, something Stoll never did and something Schenn is years away from doing. (If he ever does)
I agree with your post in general, but the Kings already "won" the trade -- hands down. They won the Stanley Cup. There's not a guarantee they win the Cup in 2012 or any point in the future with Simmonds and Schenn.

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08-16-2012, 09:12 PM
  #57
Julius Caesar Milan
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Originally Posted by deeshamrock View Post
Gagne's healthy (and pain free) for the first time in 3 years, he'll be back on the 2nd line where he belongs with Richards. He's a lot faster, and more skilled than Penner. Penner's size makes him a better fit with Stoll on the 3rd line.
.
I wouldn't break up the Penner-Richards-Carter line. They had great chemistry.

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08-16-2012, 09:18 PM
  #58
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I agree with your post in general, but the Kings already "won" the trade -- hands down. They won the Stanley Cup. There's not a guarantee they win the Cup in 2012 or any point in the future with Simmonds and Schenn.
I agree it was already a win for the Kings, but what if the Flyers win a cup in the next few years, it doesn't become a loss for the Kings from our end, but it also becomes a big win for the Flyer from their end.

I'm personally not sold on Brayden Schenn, I always thought he was a bit overrated on this board. But even if he becomes the next Steve Yzerman this is still a trade the Kings had to make. The Kings were cheating their core players (who proved to be championship caliber) by not having the proper secondary players in place the previous years. Players like Stoll and Smyth were terrible in their roles and provided no support to Kopitar, Brown, Doughty, Quick etc. Even when Richards was playing like dog **** most of the year, he was still a player opposing coaches had to match-up against and respect.

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08-16-2012, 09:20 PM
  #59
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I agree with your post in general, but the Kings already "won" the trade -- hands down. They won the Stanley Cup. There's not a guarantee they win the Cup in 2012 or any point in the future with Simmonds and Schenn.
Pretty much, this. The Kings won the friggin' Cup in Richard's first year here and played a major part in it. He set the tone in Game 1 vs the Nucks and the team never looked back. A Cup in the hand is worth 2 of your players/prospects. Philly has been a very successful regular season team, yet is in the midst of a 37 year Cup drought. F that noise.

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08-16-2012, 10:44 PM
  #60
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Massive flaws.

The most obvious is Hasek. Really? He was done 5 years ago, that is just painful bad. If Bernier is traded, I'd rather Jones or any number of other available options. Hasek is nowhere close to an NHL goalie at this point.

Why is the name of hell would we trade Gagne? He will be HUGE on the 2nd or 3rd line, with a full off-season to train for the first time in a long time. At very least he is a 15-15 type player with very very solid defensive awareness, why trade that?

Westgarth should be nowhere near LA. I've said that ad nauseum, he is simply not even close to an NHL player. Clifford can actually play the game of hockey, he will be the extra guy we put in if we need more size and toughness in the corners/out front. NOBODY needs a fighter in today's game.

Clifford will NOT clear waivers.

Drewiske should be replaced by the winner of Hickey/Muzzin training camp battle. Hickey and Muzzin have much more upside, Hickey likely would not clear waivers (possibility Muzzin won't clear as well), one of them needs to be in the NHL, neither will benefit from any more time in AHL. Give the winner the roster spot, probably get 35-50 games this year, the Kings run of defensive healthiness is bound to break soon. Drewiske should clear waivers and can be the #8 in case of injuries.
Hasek would be a great back-up. Quick should be playing 65 games. During this time, Hasek is a good role model, as he has been there, and done that. He is capable of coming in half-way through a game, and saving a game. He can also start. Even though he is old, he is not a "skater". He isnt using as much exertion, he isnt being hit, and playing on a defensive team like LA, it wouldn't be as hard. And yes, Jones would be getting time, maybe 3-5 games, but not lots. And he would come west to be a back-up because I don't know of him getting any other offers. At least gie him a try-out.

Yes, I want Gagne to play with the Kings, but you cant break up Penner-Richards-Carter line. There are other players that are deserving of ice time, and we know the Kings have an excess of forwards. You cant stick him on the fourth line, and King, and Lewis should be getting time on the 3rd line.

I will give you the Westgarth/Clifford arguement.

As for 7th defenseman, Hickey and Muzzin can stay in Manchester, but for gameday injury, we should be using Drewiske. They are both ready, but we should keep them on the ice.

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08-16-2012, 10:50 PM
  #61
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As for 7th defenseman, Hickey and Muzzin can stay in Manchester, but for gameday injury, we should be using Drewiske. They are both ready, but we should keep them on the ice.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=NHL+Waiver+Rules

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08-16-2012, 11:01 PM
  #62
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Hasek would be a great back-up. Quick should be playing 65 games. During this time, Hasek is a good role model, as he has been there, and done that. He is capable of coming in half-way through a game, and saving a game. He can also start. Even though he is old, he is not a "skater". He isnt using as much exertion, he isnt being hit, and playing on a defensive team like LA, it wouldn't be as hard. And yes, Jones would be getting time, maybe 3-5 games, but not lots. And he would come west to be a back-up because I don't know of him getting any other offers. At least gie him a try-out.
He was pretty damn bad behind a very very very good Red Wings team in 08 at 43 years old (.902 svp), how the hell would he be useful at FORTY SEVEN years old? He is well well well beyond any NHL usefulness.

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Yes, I want Gagne to play with the Kings, but you cant break up Penner-Richards-Carter line. There are other players that are deserving of ice time, and we know the Kings have an excess of forwards. You cant stick him on the fourth line, and King, and Lewis should be getting time on the 3rd line.
Penner has consistently shown a lack of desire over long stretchs (ie a whole season). Why not have someone to push him.

Not too mention the Kings roll 4 lines...so what difference does it make to King whether he plays with Stoll - Lewis or Fraser - Nolan? Having that kind of depth (and yes Gagne can play fourth line, why not?) is a huge plus, not need to give that away. Gives the Kings a huge amount of options in the bottom 6, that is awesome.

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As for 7th defenseman, Hickey and Muzzin can stay in Manchester, but for gameday injury, we should be using Drewiske. They are both ready, but we should keep them on the ice.
No they can't. Hickey WILL NOT clear waivers. Hickey will not be in the AHL this season. Muzzin will probably clear waivers, but he has nothing left to learn there. It will not help either one playing at a lower level any longer, both are beyond that level. We will likely lose one to waivers this year, try to get both down and it is possible we lose BOTH to waivers. The 7th D man has to be one of Hickey/Muzzin, IMO. It will also keep Martinez/Voynov honest in a way Drewiske never can.

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08-17-2012, 12:12 AM
  #63
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yay, more 'lets trade roster players for picks and intentionally make the team worse' ideas

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08-17-2012, 01:37 AM
  #64
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Hasek would be a great back-up.
I stopped reading right there.


This isn't Hasek circa 2002 bro. This is Hasek circa 2012. He's 47, and he's not good.

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08-17-2012, 01:45 AM
  #65
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why would you want Hasek, when Sean Burke is still unsigned?

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08-17-2012, 09:03 AM
  #66
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I wouldn't break up the Penner-Richards-Carter line. They had great chemistry.
Not as good as the chemistry Gagne and Richards had for years in Philly. It also doesn't change the fact that Gagne is a better player, better skater and far more skilled. It doesn't make sense to keep a top 6 talent like his, who has history of success with Richards, buried on a 3rd line. All three are great two way players and Carter and Gagne have the speed and skill to make that a dynamic scoring line.
Penner did play well on the 2nd line (but was only there because Gagne was hurt) Penner also played well done the stretch with Stoll on the third line. And would be a good fit, size and everything else with Stoll and the speedy Lewis. He's just not as good as Gagne.

Bottom line is that Sutter is a pretty smart hockey guy and hasn't made many mistakes yet, he'll do what he feels is best for the team to have the best fit on each line.

That is if we even have a season...Fehr and Bettman don't look be be backing down.
Hockey really can afford a prolonged shutdown, and hopefully both sides understand that.

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08-17-2012, 10:03 AM
  #67
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Not as good as the chemistry Gagne and Richards had for years in Philly. It also doesn't change the fact that Gagne is a better player, better skater and far more skilled. It doesn't make sense to keep a top 6 talent like his, who has history of success with Richards, buried on a 3rd line. All three are great two way players and Carter and Gagne have the speed and skill to make that a dynamic scoring line.
Penner did play well on the 2nd line (but was only there because Gagne was hurt) Penner also played well done the stretch with Stoll on the third line. And would be a good fit, size and everything else with Stoll and the speedy Lewis. He's just not as good as Gagne.

Bottom line is that Sutter is a pretty smart hockey guy and hasn't made many mistakes yet, he'll do what he feels is best for the team to have the best fit on each line.

That is if we even have a season...Fehr and Bettman don't look be be backing down.
Hockey really can afford a prolonged shutdown, and hopefully both sides understand that.
And I don't think you break up King - Stoll - Lewis.

It's the most logical though, King plays a game just like Penner.

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08-17-2012, 10:58 AM
  #68
Julius Caesar Milan
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Deesham you make some good points , but I think that Richards and Carter still need that physical presence of their line. (Remember) Penner replaced King on that line, not Gagne.

It's good to be this deep and have to be worrying about things like this instead of slamming the free agent that didn't sign here.

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08-17-2012, 11:20 AM
  #69
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Yeah I don't know why people want to get rid fo Gagne. Somebody is going to get hurt and I would say just rotate the best players in the line up until that eventually happens. It keeps players on their toes if they know there are guys as good or better than them not playing. It gives the coach options which is a good thing.

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08-17-2012, 12:49 PM
  #70
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It's good to be this deep and have to be worrying about things like this instead of slamming the free agent that didn't sign here
Isn't that a nice problem for Sutter to have? They are very talented and deep, and you wonder when the kids in Manchester will get a chance to make the club, esp on D.
I was really looking forward to see how Pearson and some of the other prospects did in training camp and preseason play. But that may not be for awhile, unfortunately.

Speaking of a possible delayed season, does anybody know how that works as far as the schedule? Say they don't resume play until Dec 1. Do they just resume as of the games from that point on? Or doe they redo the schedule to make it fair and even for everybody, given the importance of interdivisional games and the standings? Shouldn't each team still have to play the others the same amount of games?

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08-17-2012, 01:27 PM
  #71
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Isn't that a nice problem for Sutter to have? They are very talented and deep, and you wonder when the kids in Manchester will get a chance to make the club, esp on D.
I was really looking forward to see how Pearson and some of the other prospects did in training camp and preseason play. But that may not be for awhile, unfortunately.

Speaking of a possible delayed season, does anybody know how that works as far as the schedule? Say they don't resume play until Dec 1. Do they just resume as of the games from that point on? Or doe they redo the schedule to make it fair and even for everybody, given the importance of interdivisional games and the standings? Shouldn't each team still have to play the others the same amount of games?
They have to redo the schedule. But first they have to decide how many games are they going to play in shortened season. Like it was this year in NBA where they had very compact game schedule. I think there were also some back to back to back games.


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08-17-2012, 01:42 PM
  #72
Herby
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They can't do back to back to back in the NHL, not a chance.

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08-17-2012, 02:54 PM
  #73
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They can't do back to back to back in the NHL, not a chance.
I agree.

however, we might see some 6 game in 9 nights type situations.

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08-17-2012, 03:56 PM
  #74
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Deesham you make some good points , but I think that Richards and Carter still need that physical presence of their line. (Remember) Penner replaced King on that line, not Gagne.

It's good to be this deep and have to be worrying about things like this instead of slamming the free agent that didn't sign here.
Agreed. The reason Kings dominated a lot of teams in the playoffs, and Milbury and JR and others discussed was that we were big. Each line had a big body....Brown on the 1st line, Penner on the 2nd, King on the 3rd and Nolan on the 4th. Why would the Kings break that up and put a speedster with skills on the 2nd and force a big body out.

Gagne is 32, going to be a UFA and hasn't played a full season since 2003-04. Can you say Marco Sturm part 2?

Richardson is only 27, is more versatile and rarely injured. Nolan and Clifford have tons of upside and are very young and the future of the Kings 4th line....saying all that Gagne is the odd man out in my mind. Westgarth is a spare part who is only occasionally used, that's not the issue...The Kings need to take out an everyday player to put Clifford back in on the 4th line....Richardson and Westy are spares...Gagne was on the 4th line during the Stanley Cup finals.

DL moves Gagne, put Cliffy back on the 4th line, where he spent most of the year and the end of the year with Nolan and Fraser and then Richardson and Westy are the healthy forward scratches. Nough said.

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08-17-2012, 04:07 PM
  #75
Julius Caesar Milan
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Gagne is 32, going to be a UFA and hasn't played a full season since 2003-04. Can you say Marco Sturm part 2?
Gagne had a mass in his neck removed, he doesn't have bad knees

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DL moves Gagne, .
IMO- it isn't wise to trade players that signed as a free agent when you have as much trouble signing them as the Kings do.

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