HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Detroit Red Wings
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Who's better? Helm vs Stoll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-16-2012, 05:28 PM
  #1
Dats13DET
Registered User
 
Dats13DET's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 398
vCash: 500
Who's better? Helm vs Stoll

I've seen a lot of talk about the best third line centers on NHL.com. Helm and Stoll are some of the best. Who is better in your opinion, Jarett Stoll or Darren Helm.

Dats13DET is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-16-2012, 07:15 PM
  #2
The Nose
Registered User
 
The Nose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 8,269
vCash: 500
Helm vs. Stoll

It's tough to compare. Because of Helm's speed, I feel like he creates more offensive opportunities. But Stoll is amazing defensively and in the faceoff circle. If I had to choose one, I would choose Helm just because of his blazing speed and he still has room for improvement.

The Nose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-16-2012, 08:08 PM
  #3
Run the Jewels
Registered User
 
Run the Jewels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In the Garage
Posts: 10,374
vCash: 500
I'd say Stoll is clearly the better guy right now. He can score, PK, win faceoffs, good size, and he's got a bit of grit to his game. Really everything you could ask for in a bottom 6 center. He's scored 20+ goals several times, something I have a hard time seeing Helm accomplish.

Run the Jewels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-16-2012, 08:20 PM
  #4
The Zetterberg Era
Moderator
RIP Octopi
 
The Zetterberg Era's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 23,639
vCash: 500
Stoll is better right now. He also can play in all aspects of the game because he has a booming point shot on the power play. I would say this though the difference between the two isn't the million cap hit Stoll has more of. He is one of the better payed bottom six players in the entire league. So that is important to factor in when comparing the two. Helm needs to start scoring more though for this to be a true competition.

The Zetterberg Era is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-16-2012, 09:41 PM
  #5
Crymson
Fire Holland
 
Crymson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,674
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
I'd say Stoll is clearly the better guy right now. He can score, PK, win faceoffs, good size, and he's got a bit of grit to his game. Really everything you could ask for in a bottom 6 center. He's scored 20+ goals several times, something I have a hard time seeing Helm accomplish.
Stoll could score, but not so much anymore. He scored the series-winning OT goal against Vancouver, yes; but according to Kings fans, this was one of the first times in the entire season that he'd hit the net at all on a 2-on-1. He still has the capacity to probably score more than Helm can at this stage of the latter's career, but he's slower, and less physical. He's an excellent faceoff man, certainly.

It's tough to say who is worth more.

Crymson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-16-2012, 10:54 PM
  #6
icKx
Subtle interference
 
icKx's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Intertubes
Country: United States
Posts: 3,208
vCash: 500
If Stoll was on this team he would be our 3rd line center and Helm would be bumped down; that's it really.

icKx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-16-2012, 11:45 PM
  #7
Run the Jewels
Registered User
 
Run the Jewels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In the Garage
Posts: 10,374
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
Stoll could score, but not so much anymore. He scored the series-winning OT goal against Vancouver, yes; but according to Kings fans, this was one of the first times in the entire season that he'd hit the net at all on a 2-on-1. He still has the capacity to probably score more than Helm can at this stage of the latter's career, but he's slower, and less physical. He's an excellent faceoff man, certainly.

It's tough to say who is worth more.
No, it's really not and I'm a Darren Helm fan. I really am.

Run the Jewels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-16-2012, 11:46 PM
  #8
Run the Jewels
Registered User
 
Run the Jewels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In the Garage
Posts: 10,374
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by icKx View Post
If Stoll was on this team he would be our 3rd line center and Helm would be bumped down; that's it really.
Warning: truth bombs being deployed up in hurr.

Run the Jewels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2012, 12:16 AM
  #9
Big Poppa Puck
Bring back JTG!
 
Big Poppa Puck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Philly
Country: United States
Posts: 16,260
vCash: 500
Stoll.

Big Poppa Puck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2012, 12:24 AM
  #10
Eternal Sunshine
 
Eternal Sunshine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ottawa
Country: Somalia
Posts: 25,519
vCash: 500
Stoll quite easily. Much more complete player.

Eternal Sunshine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2012, 01:06 AM
  #11
jaster
I pay off the mods.
 
jaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 6,446
vCash: 500
Stoll, and by a significant margin. Helm is good, valuable, I like him.... but he's over-rated by many Wings fans. Stoll is better in just about every category except speed.

jaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2012, 01:15 AM
  #12
Frk It
Thanks for Green!
 
Frk It's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 14,867
vCash: 500
Stoll is definitely better, I wanted him as our 3rd line center. I'd love to have a 3rd line with Stoll as the center and Helm on the wing though.

Frk It is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2012, 02:10 AM
  #13
GentlemanMasher*
Registered Abuser
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Country: Ajman
Posts: 905
vCash: 500
I'd actually take Helm. Stoll to me is a little overrated(esp around here) and Helm's ability to me is underrated. The guy has vision and he's always had offensive skill, he just had to slow down and take his time. As his poise improves, so do his offensive chances. Whenever he lands on the ice the same time as skilled players, he never looks out of place. He's faster (duh) and harder to play against. Stoll is good but like I said to me, just overrated. No one really cared until his team won a championship. If I'm on the opposing team, I'd rather play against Stoll than **** with Darren Helm.


Last edited by GentlemanMasher*: 08-17-2012 at 02:15 AM.
GentlemanMasher* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2012, 02:34 AM
  #14
Henkka
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Lempäälä, Finland
Posts: 10,496
vCash: 500
This is an interesting question. I've seen Stoll has regressed a lot even though he was at Cup winning team. He has been better in the past, but can't believe he would be anyhow better than Helm in the future. Other one's career is going up, other one's down.

And because this is so hard question, I say right now they could be quite equal.

But because we will be going towards the future where Helm will be better than Stoll, of course I take Helm.

Henkka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2012, 04:45 AM
  #15
BSHH
HSVer & Rotflügel
 
BSHH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Hamburg
Country: Germany
Posts: 1,288
vCash: 500
Helm would be a brilliant 4th line center (but will be employed otherwise). Stoll is a very good 3rd line center. I wish Stoll had been signed instead of Samuelsson...

Gruß,
BSHH

BSHH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2012, 08:29 AM
  #16
Dynheart
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,971
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaster View Post
Stoll, and by a significant margin. Helm is good, valuable, I like him.... but he's over-rated by many Wings fans. Stoll is better in just about every category except speed.
You're going to have to include Babcock in that statement...He's been calling Helm the best third line center for almost a year now; so it's not just the fans...it's Babcock and Co. as well. I'd say they have a good idea on what hockey talent is. /shrug...we just watch it on TV.

Dynheart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2012, 10:08 AM
  #17
Run the Jewels
Registered User
 
Run the Jewels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In the Garage
Posts: 10,374
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynheart View Post
You're going to have to include Babcock in that statement...He's been calling Helm the best third line center for almost a year now; so it's not just the fans...it's Babcock and Co. as well. I'd say they have a good idea on what hockey talent is. /shrug...we just watch it on TV.
I think Babs is just pumping up his tires to try to motivate him. He'd do it with Hudler from time to time. I think it's a motivational tactic he uses.

Run the Jewels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2012, 10:40 AM
  #18
jaster
I pay off the mods.
 
jaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 6,446
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynheart View Post
You're going to have to include Babcock in that statement...He's been calling Helm the best third line center for almost a year now; so it's not just the fans...it's Babcock and Co. as well. I'd say they have a good idea on what hockey talent is. /shrug...we just watch it on TV.
You don't see a level of bias involved there? It's his own player. He's talking him up, as Babcock often does with his players. If Babcock coached LA, he'd say the same about Stoll, and wouldn't mention Helm. Find me a quote from LA coaches/management saying Helm is the best 3rd line center in the game and I'll grant your appeal to authority some validity

jaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2012, 11:55 AM
  #19
Brick Top
eeeehhhhhhhhhhh
 
Brick Top's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Grand Rapids
Posts: 1,818
vCash: 500
I'd definitely take Stoll over Helm to center the 3rd line for the next few seasons- a much better, more well-rounded player. Helm's lone plus over Stoll is speed. And for those that think Helm is underrated by Wings fans, just peruse any the trade proposal threads that include a request for Helm by fans of other teams- you'd think they are trying to pry Yzerman-in-his-prime out of Detroit.

Helm is 5 yrs younger so for the long haul he's the better selection, but if I needed one of them for the next few seasons, I'd go with Stoll.

Brick Top is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2012, 11:58 AM
  #20
Winger98
Moderator
powers combined
 
Winger98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 14,920
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Winger98
Stoll has the ability to be a good second line center, but he regressed hard last year. If last year becomes Stoll's norm, I think I like Helm more. If Stoll finds his game again, and returns to at least putting up points in the mid40s while still doing a bit of everything (ES, PK, PP), he's easily the better player.

Of course, this is also assuming that Helm doesn't elevate his game.

__________________
RIP David
Winger98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2012, 12:06 PM
  #21
Spitfire11
Registered User
 
Spitfire11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,659
vCash: 500
Helm doesn't just have speed over Stoll, he's also one of the very best forecheckers in the entire league, which is likely why Babcock described him as the top 3rd line C. Playing against Helm wears out D and takes a toll on the other team like few others. Although he's yet to show much offense, Helm/Miller always seemed to keep play in the opponent's end, he's strong on his skates and very good on the cycle too. There are very few players like him in the league (I really can't think of one off the top of my head), I'd take him over Stoll easily.

Spitfire11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2012, 12:21 PM
  #22
essbee
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 76
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire11 View Post
Helm doesn't just have speed over Stoll, he's also one of the very best forecheckers in the entire league, which is likely why Babcock described him as the top 3rd line C. Playing against Helm wears out D and takes a toll on the other team like few others. Although he's yet to show much offense, Helm/Miller always seemed to keep play in the opponent's end, he's strong on his skates and very good on the cycle too. There are very few players like him in the league (I really can't think of one off the top of my head), I'd take him over Stoll easily.
And he's the heck of a penalty killer.

essbee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2012, 12:27 PM
  #23
Crymson
Fire Holland
 
Crymson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,674
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BSHH View Post
Helm would be a brilliant 4th line center (but will be employed otherwise). Stoll is a very good 3rd line center. I wish Stoll had been signed instead of Samuelsson...
As Stoll never became a UFA, this would have been impossible.

Crymson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2012, 12:42 PM
  #24
Run the Jewels
Registered User
 
Run the Jewels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In the Garage
Posts: 10,374
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire11 View Post
Helm doesn't just have speed over Stoll, he's also one of the very best forecheckers in the entire league, which is likely why Babcock described him as the top 3rd line C. Playing against Helm wears out D and takes a toll on the other team like few others. Although he's yet to show much offense, Helm/Miller always seemed to keep play in the opponent's end, he's strong on his skates and very good on the cycle too. There are very few players like him in the league (I really can't think of one off the top of my head), I'd take him over Stoll easily.
Eh, if you actually watched enough of our games last season there were plenty of times when Helm's line couldn't get out of its own zone. Helm has one very good trait in his speed and due to that trait it gets blown far out of proportion. He's a solid bottom 6 center and I like him but he's not the player Stoll is as far as the overall attributes and skills Stoll has. Helm registered 50 fewer hits than Justin Abdelkader so it's not like Helm's some demon possessed on the forecheck. Hell, he had one more takeaway than the immortal Drew Miller and was tied in takeaways with Dan Cleary and his ****ed up knees.

LEGEND!!!!

Run the Jewels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-17-2012, 01:04 PM
  #25
Spitfire11
Registered User
 
Spitfire11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,659
vCash: 500
Meh, those stats are both subjective and pretty lame. Abdelkader being credited as the team's hit leader is proof enough (and top 10 in the NHL....really?). Remember that game vs Columus they credited Detroit being outhit 33-2? It's a relatively pointless thing to look at. Takeaways are much the same.

And yes there are obviously times when he gets stuck in his own zone (it happens to Datsyuk after all). I think it's fairly well known he's nothing special defensively. But IMO it was pretty obvious there aren't many other lines that keep opponents stuck in their zone the way the Wings' 3rd line did last year.

Spitfire11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:16 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.