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The MLD 2012 Assassination Thread

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Old
08-16-2012, 07:10 PM
  #26
Rob Scuderi
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Pittsburgh Duquesne

Coach: Alain Vigneault

Valery Kamensky-Slava Bykov (A)-Andrei Khomutov
Butch Keeling-Billy Breen-Real Cloutier
Don Grosso-Mikko Koivu-Bill Fairbairn
Martin Gelinas-Michal Pivonka-Jimmy Herbert
Paul Holmgren, Glen Murray

Doug Jarrett-Weldy Young (C)
Marty Burke-Mike O'Connell
Karel Gut (A)-Allan Shields
Stewart Evans, Tom Bladon

Marty Turco
Dan Bouchard

PP 1: Kamensky-Bykov-Khomutov-Young-O'Connell
PP 2: Keeling-Breen-Cloutier-Gut-Jarrett

PK 1: Koivu-Fairbairn-Jarrett-Shields
PK 2: Pivonka-Grosso-Burke-O'Connell
Extras: Gelinas, Young


Last edited by vecens24: 08-17-2012 at 09:24 PM.
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08-16-2012, 07:24 PM
  #27
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
The best part about Karakas is his playoff performances.



http://blackhawkslegends.blogspot.co...e-karakas.html
And it's not like Irbe was always excellent in the playoffs, either. He averaged 7 sv% points below the league average, despite the heaviest influence on that number being 2002, where he was 20 points above. And he did only get into 5 playoffs for more than a handful of minutes, which is ultimately a very short playoff resume for a guy who was a starter for a decade. I think I take Karakas, regular season and playoffs.

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08-16-2012, 08:19 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
We're considering dressing Zabrodsky to center the second line, dropping Donald Smith to the third line.

Possibilities for the bottom 6:

Donald Smith - Sands/Sullivan - Billy Gilmour
Sands/Sullivan/Maloney - Marchant - Roberts

Smith and Sands are C/LW and Sullivan can play any forward position, so we have lots of options if we do this.
Thoughts?
Thomas Vanek - Paul Haynes - Jimmy Ward
Ed Sandford - Vladimir Zabrodsky - Eddie Wiseman
Donald Smith - Charlie Sands - Billy Gilmour
Dan Maloney - Todd Marchant - Jimmy Roberts



He's definately well insulated with Sandford and Wiseman...

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08-16-2012, 09:08 PM
  #29
Canadiens1958
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Realistic Assessment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Thomas Vanek - Paul Haynes - Jimmy Ward
Ed Sandford - Vladimir Zabrodsky - Eddie Wiseman
Donald Smith - Charlie Sands - Billy Gilmour
Dan Maloney - Todd Marchant - Jimmy Roberts



He's definately well insulated with Sandford and Wiseman...
Vladimir Zabrodsky played in international tournaments thru 1956.
From 1948 thru 1956 Czechoslovakia played the Canadian representative - top Canadian semi-pro team six times producing a 1-4-1 record with a 12GF/22GA record. So a Caechoslovakian team that would regularly score 10 plus goals against weak European opposition managed 2 goals a game against Canadian teams that were composed of players in the 500+ range in Canada.

Let's not go overboard. Vladimir Zabrodsky deserves founder recognition but that is it.

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08-16-2012, 10:26 PM
  #30
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Vladimir Zabrodsky played in international tournaments thru 1956.
From 1948 thru 1956 Czechoslovakia played the Canadian representative - top Canadian semi-pro team six times producing a 1-4-1 record with a 12GF/22GA record. So a Caechoslovakian team that would regularly score 10 plus goals against weak European opposition managed 2 goals a game against Canadian teams that were composed of players in the 500+ range in Canada.

Let's not go overboard. Vladimir Zabrodsky deserves founder recognition but that is it.
You've been very clear in multiple places that you think European hockey before 1969 is utterly worthless. So the following is addressed to other GMs who might be interested

1947- First World Championship since the 1930s. Canada didn't participate. Czechoslovakia wins gold easily

1948 - Czechoslovakia loses gold to Canada on a tiebreak. Then travels to the USSR to help train the Soviets to play hockey. On the way back, a large number of the National Team dies in a plane crash

1949 - Czechoslovakia wins gold, beating Canada along the way.

1950- the entire Czechoslovak National Team is arrested by the Stalinists for allegedly liking freedom too much. Almost every player is sent to prison or the uranium mines for 10-15 years. Zabrodsky is not imprisoned but barred from the National Team until his 30s. It would take Czechoslovakian hockey a decade to recover

I would put the late 40s Czechslovakian team right up there with the 50s and early 60s Swedes and the late 50s Soviets. Would you agree?

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Old
08-17-2012, 12:28 AM
  #31
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Numbers Do Not Lie

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
You've been very clear in multiple places that you think European hockey before 1969 is utterly worthless. So the following is addressed to other GMs who might be interested

1947- First World Championship since the 1930s. Canada didn't participate. Czechoslovakia wins gold easily

1948 - Czechoslovakia loses gold to Canada on a tiebreak. Then travels to the USSR to help train the Soviets to play hockey. On the way back, a large number of the National Team dies in a plane crash

1949 - Czechoslovakia wins gold, beating Canada along the way.

1950- the entire Czechoslovak National Team is arrested by the Stalinists for allegedly liking freedom too much. Almost every player is sent to prison or the uranium mines for 10-15 years. Zabrodsky is not imprisoned but barred from the National Team until his 30s. It would take Czechoslovakian hockey a decade to recover

I would put the late 40s Czechslovakian team right up there with the 50s and early 60s Swedes and the late 50s Soviets. Would you agree?
Try being accurate. Point is simple, finding appropriate comparables. The numbers are accurate, not in dispute.

Fact of the matter is that post WWII, Canada won Olympic Gold in 1948 with a team thrown together at the last minute,

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/fea...cafflyers.html


and 1952. Soviets won in 1956, USA won in 1960.Now I see that you do not contradict the numbers, but you ignore them. So let's look at the USA /Canada comparable for the same period that Czechoslovakia was examined. Seven games, USA was 1-5-1 with 15GF/56GA. Offensively they were on a par with the Czechoslovakian team vs Canada but much weaker defensively. From the complete USA hockey program at that time - AAU and NCAA, only 1 skater made the NHL in the fifties - Ken Yackel, 1952 Olympian -6G/0A.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...yackeke01.html

From the 1948-56 Canadian teams there were a few former NHLers, Warwicks and nothing of future consequence.

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Old
08-17-2012, 04:16 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Try being accurate. Point is simple, finding appropriate comparables. The numbers are accurate, not in dispute.

Fact of the matter is that post WWII, Canada won Olympic Gold in 1948 with a team thrown together at the last minute,

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/fea...cafflyers.html


and 1952. Soviets won in 1956, USA won in 1960.Now I see that you do not contradict the numbers, but you ignore them. So let's look at the USA /Canada comparable for the same period that Czechoslovakia was examined. Seven games, USA was 1-5-1 with 15GF/56GA. Offensively they were on a par with the Czechoslovakian team vs Canada but much weaker defensively. From the complete USA hockey program at that time - AAU and NCAA, only 1 skater made the NHL in the fifties - Ken Yackel, 1952 Olympian -6G/0A.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...yackeke01.html

From the 1948-56 Canadian teams there were a few former NHLers, Warwicks and nothing of future consequence.

You didn't answer my question

"I would put the late 40s Czechslovakian team right up there with the 50s and early 60s Swedes and the late 50s Soviets. Would you agree?"

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08-17-2012, 05:25 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
1948 - Czechoslovakia loses gold to Canada on a tiebreak. Then travels to the USSR to help train the Soviets to play hockey. On the way back, a large number of the National Team dies in a plane crash
Not correct. The visit to the USSR was in February 1948, the plane crash in November 1948 on the way from Paris to London. Six players were on the plane.

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Old
08-17-2012, 06:46 AM
  #34
Canadiens1958
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No

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
You didn't answer my question

"I would put the late 40s Czechslovakian team right up there with the 50s and early 60s Swedes and the late 50s Soviets. Would you agree?
"
No. Question was answered in the comparison to the makeshift 1948 Canadian team. 1949 Sudbury Wolves were not even the Allan Cup winners. A makeshift Canadian team post 1956 Olympics would not medal.

Post 1956 Swedes were much better than 1956 and prior Swedes. 1957 team tied the Soviets in the WC in Moscow, en route to winning the gold. Still not overly strong defensively until the early sixties. Sven Tumba's training camp with the Bruins in 1957 and amateur tryout with the 1957-57 Quebec Aces - QHL helped build their offensive game but defense lagged until the early sixties.

Late fifties Soviets. Par with the late fifties Swedes. Good offense weak defense until the early 1960's.

Summary of IIHF WC and Olympics since 1920:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor..._Championships

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08-17-2012, 10:53 AM
  #35
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
No. Question was answered in the comparison to the makeshift 1948 Canadian team. 1949 Sudbury Wolves were not even the Allan Cup winners. A makeshift Canadian team post 1956 Olympics would not medal.

Post 1956 Swedes were much better than 1956 and prior Swedes. 1957 team tied the Soviets in the WC in Moscow, en route to winning the gold. Still not overly strong defensively until the early sixties. Sven Tumba's training camp with the Bruins in 1957 and amateur tryout with the 1957-57 Quebec Aces - QHL helped build their offensive game but defense lagged until the early sixties.

Late fifties Soviets. Par with the late fifties Swedes. Good offense weak defense until the early 1960's.

Summary of IIHF WC and Olympics since 1920:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor..._Championships
Why is Canada excused for having a "makeshift" team, but nobody else is? The 1947 World Championships were the first in a decade for everyone

Bobrov didn't play hockey for the first time until 1946 at the age of 23, then went on to become the best player in the USSR. Very few if any members of that generation of Soviets grew up playing hockey. Why do you think Bobrov's USSR was a stronger group of hockey players than Zabrodsky's Czechoslovakia, where hockey had existed in the youth of the players, even if not at a high level?

Edit: it does seem that by the 60s, Sweden had gotten better, but no player stood out as much for either statistically as much as Zabrodsky did for the Czechs

I'm also not sure where your 1956 distortion comes in


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 08-17-2012 at 11:09 AM.
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Old
08-17-2012, 10:54 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theokritos View Post
Not correct. The visit to the USSR was in February 1948, the plane crash in November 1948 on the way from Paris to London. Six players were on the plane.
Thanks

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Old
08-17-2012, 11:19 AM
  #37
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Not a single assassination in the last two days?

Do you guys wanna chitchat until Monday? Or take another week to get some full team analyses done?

Your call.

Outside GMs are being PM'd to administer the playoffs. When it will get underway depends on how long you wanna do this thread.

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08-17-2012, 11:25 AM
  #38
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VanI, chill out.

There is actually productive conversation going on in the thread right now (I personally am pretty interested in the 40s Czechs and learning more about what kind of level they were on), and personally I for one am waiting for every team to be posted to begin assassinating so I know what I'm comparing to here.

Keep this open for a while, AT LEAST another week. No need to rush this at all. The thing we should be trying to figure out is what to do about our one AWOL GM who is still missing a few picks.

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Old
08-17-2012, 11:29 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troll Ward View Post
Raleigh Icecaps

Coach: Bryan Murray

Jimmy Gardner (C)-Pierre Larouche-Nikolai Drozdetsky
Steve Payne-Ivan Boldirev-Gary Leeman
John Sorrell-Nylander-Mike Knuble
Tiger Williams (A)-Andrew Cassels-Jeff O'Neill

Keith Yandle-Gordie Roberts (A)
Garry Galley-Jim Morrison
Sheldon Souray-Eric Weinrich (A)

Spares:

Marc Bergevin, D
Brian Smolkinski, LW/C/RW
Hal Gill, D
Radek Dvorak, RW

Khabibulin
Kirk Mclean
Goalies:
The Bulin Wall and McLean are a pretty solid tandem. Truth be told, I REALLY wanted Kirk in this draft and you scooped him right before I intended to pick him. He's certainly not the most consistent goalie for this but he has his flashes of outright brilliance that can go a long way in the playoffs. Bulin at his peak is a good starter here, and is one of those few guys that was on my radar as he tended to raise his game in the playoffs. Even if you discount his Stanley Cup run with the Bolts his sv% is better at .910 vs .907 in the regular season. Quite the solid tandem here.

Defense:
I'd really consider putting Yandle on the 2nd or 3rd pairing here, possibly switching him with Weinrich who's somewhat underrated. Souray or Galley also wouldn't be bad options there. Yandle's just too unproven at this point to be a top pairing guy in an ATD/MLD sense just yet, though in another couple seasons that'll change IMO. Pretty solid group here. Morrison's 3 all star games, all by merit at a time where getting in the ASG was more then a popularity contest, stand out nicely to me as the anchor of your second pairing. Gill makes a solid spare and probably could play on a few top 6 defenses here.

Forwards:
Offensively this is a solid group, but I'm concerned about the two-way play a bit. The 4th line is solid in its own right, but still seems far more geared towards offense then defense. As a result the PK could actually be a bit of a concern here as well. Some guys like Cassels can certainly hold their own, but we'll see how that plays out as an entire group.

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08-17-2012, 11:53 AM
  #40
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
VanI, chill out.

There is actually productive conversation going on in the thread right now (I personally am pretty interested in the 40s Czechs and learning more about what kind of level they were on), and personally I for one am waiting for every team to be posted to begin assassinating so I know what I'm comparing to here.

Keep this open for a while, AT LEAST another week. No need to rush this at all. The thing we should be trying to figure out is what to do about our one AWOL GM who is still missing a few picks.
I 100% agree. Aside from the "chill out" I guess. He wasn't freaking out or anything. This was maybe more of a "hold your horses" or a "whoa there, cowboy".

People are still furiously completing bios in order to help people make informed assassinations. This should pick up after that.

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08-17-2012, 11:56 AM
  #41
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Defensive-minded coach that works very well with two-way centermen. Loves defensive players that can move the puck effectively and does fine with transition even with limited puck-movers on the backline. Will hide offensive defensemen that may be liabilities deeper in the lineup. Runs defensive systems that actually encourage shots against, but very low quality ones from the low-percentage areas, then has players collapse back to the goaltender to retrieve or clear rebounds. Has had remarkable success with even journeymen goaltenders.

QMJHL: His starter had the best save pct. in the league (0.908). 3rd in GAA (2.74). (Christian Bronsard - career journeyman, spent most time in French league and second-tier German league). Before Julien got there, the team had Jose Theodore post a 3.38 GAA and .889 save pct. The year after Julien left, two scrub goalies posted 3.53 & 3.90 GAAs and .875 & .881 save percentages.

AHL: In his final season (the one in which he's called up late to Montreal), he oversaw Mathieu Garon post the league's best save pct. (.937), Eric Fichaud was 4th (including Garon) at .925. Both of their career best AHL seasons. [Min. 20 games] ...Garon also led the league in GAA (1.77), Fichaud was 7th (2.28).

NHL: Goaltenders Under Julien

Jeff Hackett (2003) .926 save pct. (18 GP). 3 years prior: .914 (56 GP), .887 (19 GP), .904 (15 GP). 3 years after: .894* (18 GP), .905 (27 GP), retired
* - split season between Montreal and Boston

Jose Theodore (2004) .919 save pct. (67 GP). 3 years prior: .909 (59 GP), .931 (67 GP), .908 (57 GP). 3 years after: .881 (38 GP), .891 (33 GP), .910 (53 GP)

Mathieu Garon (2004) .921 save pct. (19 GP). Career prior: .909 (24 GP). 3 years after: .894 (63 GP), .907 (32 GP), .913 (47 GP)

Martin Brodeur (2007) .922 save pct. (78 GP)*. 3 years prior: .914 (73 GP), .917 (75GP), .911 (73 GP). 3 years after: .920 (77 GP), .916 (31 GP), .916 (77 GP)
* - 2nd highest save pct. of his career (1997), also career-high shutouts in 2007.

Alex Auld (2008) .919 save pct. (23 GP)*. 3 years prior: .902 (67 GP), .888 (27 GP), .880 (9 GP - same season, waived by Phoenix - a team with no goaltending at the time). 3 years after: .911 (43 GP), .895 (24 GP), .914 (16 GP)
* - career high save pct. (min. 9 GP)

Tim Thomas (2008) .921 save pct. (57 GP)*. 3 years prior: N/A, .917 (38 GP), .905 (66 GP). 3 years after: all under Julien
* - couldn't crack the league in any significant fashion before Julien and was very lowly regarded in 2007, even by his own fan base.

Tim Thomas (2009) .933 save pct. (54 GP)* - led NHL in GAA and save pct.

Tuukka Rask (2010) .931 save pct. (45 GP)* - led NHL in GAA and save pct. as a rookie

Tim Thomas (2011) .938 save pct. (57 GP)* - led NHL in GAA and save pct.
Tuukka Rask (2011) .918 save pct. (29 GP) - t-14 save pct. (min. 25 games)

Tim Thomas (2012) .920 save pct. (59 GP) - t-11th save pct. (min. 23 games)
Tuukka Rask (2012) .929 save pct. (23 GP) - t-5th save pct.

Last 5 years in Boston (from present -> past):
GF: 2nd, 8th, 29th, 2nd, 25th
GA: 5th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st, 12th
just wanted to say, this was very well done. The correlation between Claude Julien and higher save percentages is undeniable.

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08-17-2012, 12:11 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I 100% agree. Aside from the "chill out" I guess. He wasn't freaking out or anything. This was maybe more of a "hold your horses" or a "whoa there, cowboy".

People are still furiously completing bios in order to help people make informed assassinations. This should pick up after that.
Yeah, I only have three bios left...I'm making a lot of new ones, trying especially to get quality players that haven't been well-documented in the past (HHOFer Shorty Green and a relative-unknown in Teddy Graham). I should be done and my lineup completed in full by Saturday, if not today.

Thanks for the comment seventies, re: Julien. I built the team with him in mind, and could afford to skimp a bit on goaltending for that reason. Though, I must say, I think given the quality of netminders out there to begin with, a Cude/Burke combo isn't too bad. Burke didn't really get a lot of hearty, defensive teams when he played for the late 80's Devils and 90's Whalers

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08-17-2012, 12:35 PM
  #43
Canadiens1958
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1948 Olympic Hockey

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Why is Canada excused for having a "makeshift" team, but nobody else is? The 1947 World Championships were the first in a decade for everyone

Bobrov didn't play hockey for the first time until 1946 at the age of 23, then went on to become the best player in the USSR. Very few if any members of that generation of Soviets grew up playing hockey. Why do you think Bobrov's USSR was a stronger group of hockey players than Zabrodsky's Czechoslovakia, where hockey had existed in the youth of the players, even if not at a high level?

Edit: it does seem that by the 60s, Sweden had gotten better, but no player stood out as much for either statistically as much as Zabrodsky did for the Czechs

I'm also not sure where your 1956 distortion comes in
1948 Winter Olympic Hockey Tournament was defined by the revision of amateur. The following link describes the USA situation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_hoc...inter_Olympics

Canada used to send the Allan Cup winner but the 1947 winner would not meet eligibility requirements since they were the Montreal Canadiens #1 farm club - Montreal Royals from the QSHL:

http://www.allancup.ca/PastWinners.htm

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...007371947.html

Upthread I posted a link about how the 1948 Canadian team was cobbled together. Canada applied for participation two days before the deadline and put together a team from players that were eligible and not members of active, full season teams that were recognized amateurs. The initial team was not even able to beat an average university team - McGill.

The Czechoslovakian National team won the 1947 WC and then participated in the 1948 Winter Olympics. Hardly "makeshift". No one else had a "makeshift" team. The USA - sent two - one blatantly ineligible. The organizers accommodated the other USA team to save the tournament - see link.

No post 1956 distortion, just a recognition that a "makeshift" Canadian team would no longer work.

Your Zabrodsky/Czechoslovakian team comparison more or less explains why the Soviets of Bobrov's era were better. Better team that could perform even without Bobrov who did miss games along the way.

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08-17-2012, 12:40 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
just wanted to say, this was very well done. The correlation between Claude Julien and higher save percentages is undeniable.
But Julien tells his players to suck on the powerplay, right?

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08-17-2012, 12:48 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
The best part about Karakas is his playoff performances.



http://blackhawkslegends.blogspot.co...e-karakas.html
Maybe I gave Karakas' playoffs a short shrift simply because his one Cup run outshines his other playoffs, and the next thing I think of is his strong 1936 regular season. I admit, I'm probably not entirely fair to him in comparison to a guy I saw, in person, at his very best.

In any case I'm happy that I managed to land both of them. That wasn't part of the plan, which is also part of why I'm not sure quite how to handle their starts.

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08-17-2012, 12:50 PM
  #46
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If a coach isn't using the Swedish Torpedo, he's stuck in the past!

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08-17-2012, 01:02 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958
Canada used to send the Allan Cup winner but the 1947 winner would not meet eligibility requirements since they were the Montreal Canadiens #1 farm club - Montreal Royals from the QSHL:
To clarify, "used to" means a decade earlier. 1947 was the first WC since 1939.

Quote:
Upthread I posted a link about how the 1948 Canadian team was cobbled together. Canada applied for participation two days before the deadline and put together a team from players that were eligible and not members of active, full season teams that were recognized amateurs. The initial team was not even able to beat an average university team - McGill.
Who cares who they beat or didn't beat during exhibition and practice?

Quote:
The Czechoslovakian National team won the 1947 WC and then participated in the 1948 Winter Olympics. Hardly "makeshift". No one else had a "makeshift" team. The USA - sent two - one blatantly ineligible. The organizers accommodated the other USA team to save the tournament - see link.
The 1947 World Championships was the first in 9 years. According to information provided above, 6 members of that team died a few months before the 1948 Olympics.

But poor Canada couldn't send professionally trained players

Quote:
No post 1956 distortion, just a recognition that a "makeshift" Canadian team would no longer work.
So why did you say this: "Post 1956 Swedes were much better than 1956 and prior Swedes. 1957 team tied the Soviets in the WC in Moscow, en route to winning the gold. Still not overly strong defensively until the early sixties. Sven Tumba's training camp with the Bruins in 1957 and amateur tryout with the 1957-57 Quebec Aces - QHL helped build their offensive game but defense lagged until the early sixties."

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Your Zabrodsky/Czechoslovakian team comparison more or less explains why the Soviets of Bobrov's era were better. Better team that could perform even without Bobrov who did miss games along the way.
How does it explain that? How is Zabrodsky being more important to the Czechs than Bobrov on the Soviets somehow a case against him?

Where do you rank Zabrodsky in comparison to Bobrov and Guryshev of the USSR and Tumba and Sterner of Sweden? And why? If you think that they are all scrubs because European hockey wasn't that developed then and the players weren't professionally or at least quasi-professionally trained yet, just say so!


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 08-17-2012 at 01:10 PM.
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08-17-2012, 01:12 PM
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seventieslord
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But Julien tells his players to suck on the powerplay, right?
Something like that.

Looks like they allow more shots but they are lower quality, and the goalies stop a higher percentage of them. Impacts GAA positively, but not as much as it impacts sv%.

Why they suck on the PP, who knows. Their ability to limit ES shot quality and have a good PP should be completely independent of eachother. A Julien team with a competent PP would sure be awesome though.

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08-17-2012, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
To clarify, "used to" means a decade earlier. 1947 was the first WC since 1939.



Who cares who they beat or didn't beat during exhibition and practice?



The 1947 World Championships was the first in 9 years. According to information provided above, 6 members of that team died a few months before the 1948 Olympics.

But poor Canada couldn't send professionally trained players



So you just made up the 1956 date?



How does it explain that? How is Zabrodsky being more important to the Czechs than Bobrov on the Soviets somehow a case against him?

Where do you rank Zabrodsky in comparison to Bobrov and Guryshev of the USSR and Tumba and Sterner of Sweden? And why? If you think that they are all scrubs because European hockey wasn't that developed then and the players weren't professionally or at least quasi-professionally trained yet, just say so!
The 1948 Winter Olympics were held late January/early February 1948. The Czech plane crash occurred in November 1948. Your timeline is obviously out of whack.

I realize that advocating for your boy is part of the game but keep facts on the table. In 1950 the Soviet National Hockey Team was also decimated, losing 11 players, in a plane crash Sverdlovsk, which Vsevolod Bobrov avoided.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1950_Sv...k_air_disaster

Zabrodsky, Bobrov, Guryshev fit into the founders group. Neither played into the sixties like Sven Tumba or Sterner who played into the seventies. Compared to contemporaries Sven Tumba and Sterner would rank with Firsov as the top three Europeans.

1956 was not arbitrary as you imply, rather it reflects the changes in hockey, both in Europe and NA. Canada where the semi pro leagues were redefined with a clearer distinction between the amateur and pro leagues with procedures for amateur reinstatement. The European countries had moved beyond tragedies and political issues to establish leagues and national teams. The USA had taken steps towards unifying the various governing bodies, NCAA hockey was growing and elements were in place for the 1960 Olympic success.

Point about Zabrodsky illustrated the lack of depth and diverse talent on the Czechoslovakian team. Simply the best player on a weaker team appears statistically better than the best player on a stronger team.

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08-17-2012, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Something like that.

Looks like they allow more shots but they are lower quality, and the goalies stop a higher percentage of them. Impacts GAA positively, but not as much as it impacts sv%.

Why they suck on the PP, who knows. Their ability to limit ES shot quality and have a good PP should be completely independent of eachother. A Julien team with a competent PP would sure be awesome though.
Not completely independent as you are limited to the number of defensemen you can use in a game. Bruins top 6 defensemen do not have an elite puck moving defenseman to quarterback the PP or act as a triggerman from the point. Chara has a great shot but takes too long to execute.

So the Bruins top 6 is great at limiting quality shots at ES but this impacts on their PP since none of the top6 are even close to ideal PP point men.

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