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Old
08-17-2012, 12:55 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
To San Jose:
Roberto Luongo
Jannik Hansen
Nazem Kadri

To Toronto:
Antti Niemi

To Vancouver:
Ryan Clowe
Dan Boyle
San Jose 1st

Vancouver gets tougher and adds a legit number 1 dman, as well as getting a 1st to help stovk up on prospects.(It stinks to lose Hansen, but I doubt it would fly if we used Raymond)

San Jose gets an upgrade in goal and an infusion of youth/skill/speed.

Toronto gets a starting goaltender.

Thoughts?
Toronto trades their top prospect for Anti Niemi. Think about it.

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Old
08-17-2012, 12:57 PM
  #77
Vankiller Whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
I'm getting this image in my hand of you guys putting your fingers in your ears and going 'la-la-la-la-la".

Doug Wilson will not trade for Luongo. He is totally against contracts exactly like that. He wouldn't even give Weber one. Every single time he is asked about those deals he makes it very clear he feels they are bad for the Sharks, bad for hockey, and he want's nothing to do with them.
Burke felt the same way, but he still has an interest in Luongo.

Any GM who won't take on a player simply because he disagrees with the philosophy of the contract he's on should be fired.

Not handing out these contracts is a different story.

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08-17-2012, 01:02 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Toronto trades their top prospect for Anti Niemi. Think about it.
No. Toronto trades their 2nd best prospect for an adequate number 1 goaltender.

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Old
08-17-2012, 01:11 PM
  #79
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as a leafs fan, acquiring another finnish goalie from san jose in exchange for a future asset brings back memories of a similar deal with catastrophic results...

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08-17-2012, 01:15 PM
  #80
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Before you typed that up, did you look at what the Sharks roster would look like?

Marleau-Thornton-Kadri
Couture-Pavelski-Havlat
Hansen-Handzus-Wingels
Burish-Desjardins-Galiardi

Vlasic-Burns
Stuart-Demers
Murray-Braun

Luongo
Greiss

And minus a first. That team does not look better at all.

I'd trade Clowe for Kadri, but Boyle for Hansen is brutal.

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08-17-2012, 01:16 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I have to say though, Sharks fans saying Luongo has zero value to their team because of his contract is similar to saying Ovechkin has zero value to Burke because he's not truculent.

Assuming you value Luongo fairly, I think the value is alright. Maybe switch San Jose's 1st to a 2nd, but really, calling it the worst proposal you've ever seen and such is "the worst exaggeration I've ever seen."
This statenent is an epic fail.

The sharks let Nabokov go cause of his cap hit. They want to have a lower hit in net to be able to spend more on the rest of the team. So using logic, why would you try to classify bobby Lu with Ovie?

The sharks have 0 interest in luongo's contract mostly due to what he brings in comparison to the cap. 0 value to us

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Old
08-17-2012, 01:17 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Huh?

Kadri is the Leafs second best prospect after Rielly, and Niemi is an adequate number 1 goalie. I do not see how this is trolling.
So why are the Sharks trading our number 1 goalie, our top defenseman, a top 6 winger that we have no way of replacing AND our 1st for a better goalie on a bad contract, a 3rd line forward in Hansen and a forward prospect.

Sharks wouldn't even consider this trade. The value is so awful it's laughable.

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Old
08-17-2012, 01:17 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Burke felt the same way, but he still has an interest in Luongo.

Any GM who won't take on a player simply because he disagrees with the philosophy of the contract he's on should be fired.

Not handing out these contracts is a different story.
Burke is desperate for a number one goalie, the Sharks are not. We've also got an extremely strong goalie pool behind Niemi.

Also, I disagree with your second statement. I wouldn't have even signed Weber to a deal like that, it's bad business the Sharks cannot afford. We are not a team that can float a bad contract for any amount of time. Doug Wilson has been VERY good for business in San Jose. The team is better, more popular, makes more money, and the players are happier since Wilson took over.

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Old
08-17-2012, 01:19 PM
  #84
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I think the only winner here is Toronto. Toronto gives up a good prospect, sure, but they are not making the playoffs next season with Reimer as their starter. Think about how much Toronto would have to give up if they just went straight for Lu.

Vancouver does not need an offensive d-man. They have 4 d-men going into next season who got at least 33 points, and Edler and Bieksa were both on pace for the same amount of points as Boyle, are younger, and significantly cheaper.

That being said, San Jose's defense wasn't nearly as offensive as the Canucks Defense and would be losing a significant piece.

I feel like Vancouver could get a piece for Luongo that helps them more than adding another offensive dman from another team. I also feel like San Jose should only move Boyle if they decide on a rebuild, and start offloading other big pieces. They have the big pieces to acquire a ton of young talent. I think San Jose could have a shot at the cup still in the next 2 years though, unlike a team such as Calgary.

Toronto fans, if you want to make the playoffs, you need to pick up a legitimate starter, so either trade for Lu, or if this deal were to happen, Neimi. Bernier is still unproven, and do you need to try another unproven goalie? NO!

I think that is Burkes biggest weakness as a gm. He undervalues goaltending. I mean, the Canucks had a stud team when he was their gm, and he wouldnt acquire a goalie to replace Cloutier.

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Old
08-17-2012, 01:19 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillR10 View Post
This statenent is an epic fail.

The sharks let Nabokov go cause of his cap hit. They want to have a lower hit in net to be able to spend more on the rest of the team. So using logic, why would you try to classify bobby Lu with Ovie?

The sharks have 0 interest in luongo's contract mostly due to what he brings in comparison to the cap. 0 value to us
5.3 mil is an excellent cap hit for a goalie of Luongo's calibre.

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Old
08-17-2012, 01:28 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckEatinShark View Post
So why are the Sharks trading our number 1 goalie, our top defenseman, a top 6 winger that we have no way of replacing AND our 1st for a better goalie on a bad contract, a 3rd line forward in Hansen and a forward prospect.

Sharks wouldn't even consider this trade. The value is so awful it's laughable.
So do the courtesy of quoting the post you have an issue with.

You improve your goaltending and your forward group(replacing Clowe with Kadri and Hansen) at the cost of Boyle, who is 36 and your team overall becomes much younger.

If your complaint is that Boyle is too integral a piece of your core to trade, then say that instead of accusing me of trolling. I was under the impression that Clowe and Boyle were on the block from a thread put up here a short while ago. I was trying to find a deal that fits the Sharks needs(better goaltending + youth/speed in the top 9).

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Old
08-17-2012, 01:33 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I challenge you to name 3 goalies better than Luongo at a lower cap hit.
It's not the cap hit, it's the age and the length.

For the love of god, Canucks fans, stop wasting your breath trying to convince Sharks fans that we want Luongo. We've been over this about a million times this summer, the Sharks do not want Luongo.

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Old
08-17-2012, 01:34 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
So do the courtesy of quoting the post you have an issue with.

You improve your goaltending and your forward group(replacing Clowe with Kadri and Hansen) at the cost of Boyle, who is 36 and your team overall becomes much younger.

If your complaint is that Boyle is too integral a piece of your core to trade, then say that instead of accusing me of trolling. I was under the impression that Clowe and Boyle were on the block from a thread put up here a short while ago. I was trying to find a deal that fits the Sharks needs(better goaltending + youth/speed in the top 9).
Younger does not equal better. Younger does not always equal more value. The Sharks are a significantly worse team after that deal.

We don't want Luongo, Wilson doesn't want Luongo, I don't know how else to make that clear.

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Old
08-17-2012, 01:35 PM
  #89
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The answer to the question:"What does Niemi offer the Leafs that Reimer doesn't?" is: a Stanley Cup ring.

No from Toronto.

1st place Vancouver, distant 4th is Toronto and San Jose is in an obliterated crater.

2nd, 3rd and a three-way tie for 4th are LA, Anaheim, Phoenix and Dallas, respectively, who all benefit from a massively weaker team in their division.

Actually I would like to rescind calling the Leafs winners in this at all. Toronto and SJ do not place in this race.

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08-17-2012, 01:40 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
5.3 mil is an excellent cap hit for a goalie of Luongo's calibre.
Luongo isn't of Luongo's calibre or else why trade him?

Oh wait, because he wants out and the team has signed Schneider to a #1Gb contract... that's why.

Nobody needs to make a move for Luongo at the same level that Gillis has to unload him. The Canucks need to abandon these wild fantasies of getting a huge return on Luongo.

Let him be a $5.3M cap-hit on your bench if you think he's worth Boyle, Clowe, 1st

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Old
08-17-2012, 01:43 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Younger does not equal better. Younger does not always equal more value. The Sharks are a significantly worse team after that deal.

We don't want Luongo, Wilson doesn't want Luongo, I don't know how else to make that clear.
I don't mind if you say that you feel you are a better team with Boyle/Niemi/Clowe than Luongo/Hansen/Kadri. That's perfectly fine. It offends me though when people say "Sharks get hosed, OP is trolling" if all you really want to say is that it doesn't fit your needs properly.

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08-17-2012, 01:45 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I don't mind if you say that you feel you are a better team with Boyle/Niemi/Clowe than Luongo/Hansen/Kadri. That's perfectly fine. It offends me though when people say "Sharks get hosed, OP is trolling" if all you really want to say is that it doesn't fit your needs properly.
The Sharks do in fact 'get hosed' though. Pretty unanimously response on that. I said nothing about the OP trolling though, and I don't think it was, just a bad proposal.

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08-17-2012, 01:51 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
The Sharks do in fact 'get hosed' though. Pretty unanimously response on that. I said nothing about the OP trolling though, and I don't think it was, just a bad proposal.
Is Boyle, Niemi, Clowe, 1st(later I admitted maybe a 2nd is fairer)
for
Luongo, Hansen, Kadri.

Getting hosed?

I would say in terms of value on paper:

Luongo>Boyle(age, goalies longer shelf life)
Kadri=Niemi
Hansen<Clowe

and a 1st/2nd, which partly makes up for all the age you shed.

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Old
08-17-2012, 01:52 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
The Sharks do in fact 'get hosed' though. Pretty unanimously response on that. I said nothing about the OP trolling though, and I don't think it was, just a bad proposal.
I don't think the Sharks are "hosed", but I for sure agree they end up with the crap end of the deal. The OP has clearly overvalued Lu's (and probably Hansen's) value to the Sharks, and if a top flight goalie was needed....well Boyle for Lu, Clowe for Hansen, a first for Kadri and something equivalent for Niemi (not included in the OP) wouldn't be terrible value. The fact is, the Sharks fans don't feel they need an upgrade in net as much as other parts of their team, so Luongo holds limited value, like with Florida. Boyle, who I don't think is being shopped but has been brought up in proposals, is more valuable to their team then Luongo, period.


I also believe Niemi is a definite upgrade over the current Leafs goaltenders, but can see their hesitation in surrendering their top prospect, who again I don't think is as valuable to the Sharks as to the Leafs, for Niemi.

On a psuedo-related note, whats the addition to Booth to make an offer for Boyle? I know a few Sharks have coveted him in other threads.

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08-17-2012, 01:52 PM
  #95
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Good, because I'd rather keep Niemi than have to deal with a bust prospect.
Sensitive much?

How is Kadri a bust? Kid is 21 and has good upside still.

http://bleedingbluenwhite.blogspot.c...aft-class.html

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08-17-2012, 01:53 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I don't mind if you say that you feel you are a better team with Boyle/Niemi/Clowe than Luongo/Hansen/Kadri. That's perfectly fine. It offends me though when people say "Sharks get hosed, OP is trolling" if all you really want to say is that it doesn't fit your needs properly.
Value IS way off bro. We arent getting that much from anyone for Lou..

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08-17-2012, 01:54 PM
  #97
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The Sharks do in fact 'get hosed' though. Pretty unanimously response on that. I said nothing about the OP trolling though, and I don't think it was, just a bad proposal.
I don't think this proposal helps the Canucks or Sharks.

Canucks have younger, as offensive, cheaper d-men, than Boyle. They could use lu to get something they need.

Likewise, I don't think San Jose needs Lu especially, and the loss of Boyle to their defense is significant.

Vancouver and San Jose are not good trading partners for each other.

I will restate this though, despite what Toronto fans seem to think, if they ever want to make the playoffs, they need to give something up for a #1 goalie.

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Old
08-17-2012, 02:24 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Luongo = Boyle + Clowe
(elite middle aged player for elite older player + average middle aged player, plus goalies usually have a longer shelf life)

Niemi = Kadri
Hansen = 1st
How about you just trade us Hansen? Forget all that other nonsense.

Hansen for a 1st. Hell, we'll even throw in a 3rd.

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Old
08-17-2012, 02:27 PM
  #99
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How about you just trade us Hansen? Forget all that other nonsense.

Hansen for a 1st. Hell, we'll even throw in a 3rd.
Yeah...Hansen being moved for some that isn't an immediate improvement won't happen. His value might not be outstandingly high, but a serious, serious overpayment is the only thing that will get him without a Hansen being part of a package. It's not just fans slobbering all over him, Gillis said a few years ago he could see Hansen scoring 50. Read into that what you will, but he's highly thought of by our club president and GM.

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Old
08-17-2012, 02:50 PM
  #100
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How about you just trade us Hansen? Forget all that other nonsense.

Hansen for a 1st. Hell, we'll even throw in a 3rd.
Raymond+Hansen+Kevin Connaughton(our best d prospect) for Clowe+1st.

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