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IIHF Releases World Junior Rankings

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Old
07-03-2012, 08:52 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by zorz View Post
I'm all for this.

Btw. I've heard some time ago HC was considering reducing CHL imports to 1 per team, but I haven't heard about it again since. Anybody has a clue if that idea is still alive?
I agree with you friend.

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07-03-2012, 08:58 AM
  #27
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I haven't heard if HC has made any decision on import rules, but I'll try and dig up some info on it.

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07-03-2012, 09:03 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by zorz View Post
I'm all for this.

Btw. I've heard some time ago HC was considering reducing CHL imports to 1 per team, but I haven't heard about it again since. Anybody has a clue if that idea is still alive?
As of a month ago, June 7th, the import rule is up for review and there is a motion to have the import quota reduced to 1 per team for the 2013-14 season. Whether this gets accepted by Hockey Canada is the question. Quite frankly, I want it reduced to zero imports.

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07-03-2012, 09:06 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Mr Writer View Post
As of a month ago, June 7th, the import rule is up for review and there is a motion to have the import quota reduced to 1 per team for the 2013-14 season. Whether this gets accepted by Hockey Canada is the question. Quite frankly, I want it reduced to zero imports.
Still reducing to 1 would be an improvement. Thanks

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07-03-2012, 09:07 AM
  #30
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The reason the Czechs and the Slovaks are declining is because their junior development system sucks, not because their players are going to the CHL.

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07-03-2012, 09:21 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
The reason the Czechs and the Slovaks are declining is because their junior development system sucks, not because their players are going to the CHL.
I don't agree with that. Anything that weakens a domestic junior league in the Czech Rep or Slovakia or any European country (so many of their top players leaving for Canadian junior leagues) is not good for the development of players left behind. It's competition that improves players. Especially for smaller European countries. Here's an idea. There's been talk lately of the KHL promoting the idea of a pan-european league, 64 teams in the KHL. wouldn't it be better for all the European federations to support a junior pan-European league as opposed to a professional KHL driven league? It makes much more sense to me for European federations to invest their resources in junior development a multi-national team. Top Tier European division based on the CHL 60 teams devided by region will play competion between them. 6-10 junior teams in European Russia, 5-8 Swedish teams, 6 Finnish teams, 4 Slovak teams, Czech etc etc. you get my point. that way all the best European juniors can play in that top tier league against... and the 2nd or tier two division junior players can play in their domestic leagues. or come to Canada if they so wish... makes perfect sense. There are a lot of ideas out there. Canada is not the enemy here folks. And instead of bashing Canada all the time, Europeans need to point the finger at their own federations.

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07-03-2012, 09:32 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Mr Writer View Post
I don't agree with that. Anything that weakens a domestic junior league in the Czech Rep or Slovakia or any European country (so many of their top players leaving for Canadian junior leagues) is not good for the development of players left behind. It's competition that improves players. Especially for smaller European countries. Here's an idea. There's been talk lately of the KHL promoting the idea of a pan-european league, 64 teams in the KHL. wouldn't it be better for all the European federations to support a junior pan-European league as opposed to a professional KHL driven league? It makes much more sense to me for European federations to invest their resources in junior development a multi-national team. Top Tier European division based on the CHL 60 teams devided by region will play competion between them. 6-10 junior teams in European Russia, 5-8 Swedish teams, 6 Finnish teams, 4 Slovak teams, Czech etc etc. you get my point. that way all the best European juniors can play in that top tier league against... and the 2nd or tier two division junior players can play in their domestic leagues. or come to Canada if they so wish... makes perfect sense. There are a lot of ideas out there. Canada is not the enemy here folks. And instead of bashing Canada all the time, Europeans need to point the finger at their own federations.
But the reason the players are going to the CHL in the first place is because the domestic league is weak. There are so few Swedish players in the CHL because they do not need to go there, their development system is good enough.

The bolded part has confused me on your stance because that is part of my point, it is not Canada and the CHL's fault those European countries are declining. If their development system and domestic league was good enough they would not need to go to the CHL, but if you close the doors to imports that is unfair on guys who are exceptional talents from non-traditional hockey countries. Where would Anze Kopitar be if he was not allowed to go play in Sweden because of some silly no imports rule?

A pan-European CHL type competition is a nice idea but there's no way it is viable financially, European junior teams just do not get the same support as they do in Canada.

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07-03-2012, 09:45 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
But the reason the players are going to the CHL in the first place is because the domestic league is weak. There are so few Swedish players in the CHL because they do not need to go there, their development system is good enough.

The bolded part has confused me on your stance because that is part of my point, it is not Canada and the CHL's fault those European countries are declining. If their development system and domestic league was good enough they would not need to go to the CHL, but if you close the doors to imports that is unfair on guys who are exceptional talents from non-traditional hockey countries. Where would Anze Kopitar be if he was not allowed to go play in Sweden because of some silly no imports rule?

A pan-European CHL type competition is a nice idea but there's no way it is viable financially, European junior teams just do not get the same support as they do in Canada.
There is nothing unfair about it. It's quite the opposite, current CHL import rules are very kind to these guys, but it's not something they have right to get automatically. If I didn't have a car, but wanted to learn driving, because I wanted to be a racer one day, would it be unfair on me if my neighbour refused to lend me his car once a week?

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07-03-2012, 09:46 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
But the reason the players are going to the CHL in the first place is because the domestic league is weak. There are so few Swedish players in the CHL because they do not need to go there, their development system is good enough.

The bolded part has confused me on your stance because that is part of my point, it is not Canada and the CHL's fault those European countries are declining. If their development system and domestic league was good enough they would not need to go to the CHL, but if you close the doors to imports that is unfair on guys who are exceptional talents from non-traditional hockey countries. Where would Anze Kopitar be if he was not allowed to go play in Sweden because of some silly no imports rule?

A pan-European CHL type competition is a nice idea but there's no way it is viable financially, European junior teams just do not get the same support as they do in Canada.
That was not meant for you, that was meant in general, as it seems to me anyway, that Canada always gets criticized for having a perceived negative impact or negative influence on the game as opposed for the good we do to support the game globally.

As for a pan European junior league, if the IIHF and European federations don't want to invest in it, well, they better come up with an alternative solution real soon, adopt the Swedish model because European countries are falling way behind. The IIHF can do their rankings however they want, but the real rankings are Canada USA Sweden Russia Finland....and after that everybody just trying to stay afloat.

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07-03-2012, 10:11 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Mr Writer View Post
That was not meant for you, that was meant in general, as it seems to me anyway, that Canada always gets criticized for having a perceived negative impact or negative influence on the game as opposed for the good we do to support the game globally.

As for a pan European junior league, if the IIHF and European federations don't want to invest in it, well, they better come up with an alternative solution real soon, adopt the Swedish model because European countries are falling way behind. The IIHF can do their rankings however they want, but the real rankings are Canada USA Sweden Russia Finland....and after that everybody just trying to stay afloat.
I don't know about the rest of Europe, but Russia is exploding in hockey right now. With the potential hockey population and love for the sport, the potential is very high. 300 rinks built in the last few years, and just as many to be built in the near future. With Billions of $$ pouring in to the sports. Amateur hockey leagues opening up all over the country. MHL is now the largest junior league in the world, with over 60 teams and thousands of destined professionals and increasingly bigger sponsors. And many many more teams to come in the next few years. So Swedish model of selling homegrown players for nearly pennies and being NHL's developement farm league is not an option for Russia.

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07-03-2012, 10:19 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
I don't know about the rest of Europe, but Russia is exploding in hockey right now. With the potential hockey population and love for the sport, the potential is very high. 300 rinks built in the last few years, and just as many to be built in the near future. With Billions of $$ pouring in to the sports. Amateur hockey leagues opening up all over the country. MHL is now the largest junior league in the world, with over 60 teams and thousands of destined professionals and increasingly bigger sponsors. And many many more teams to come in the next few years. So Swedish model of selling homegrown players for nearly pennies and being NHL's developement farm league is not an option for Russia.
Thanks for the import. I wasn't really inferring that Russia needed to follow a Swedish model, more so for other European powers, if my statement was vague, then I apologize.

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07-04-2012, 01:56 AM
  #37
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Well, can't really argue with the methods they used. They even acknowledged that Canada can't send their best to WJC-18. Not a formula in the world could put Canada #1 after a 2nd, 3rd, 3rd and 4th place finishes in the last four events anyway.

Plus it's after the top countries the rankings really serves a purpose imo. Like seeing Switzerland at #6.

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07-04-2012, 03:00 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Mr Writer View Post
I always wondered why the IIHF never ranked junior teams like Senior teams; I figured because generally since Canada started sending a true national team 30 years ago and win the U20 WHC on average every two years, (15 gold in 30 years) that Canada would always be ranked number 1. and we all know the IIHF is reluctant to rank Canada at number 1 at anytime. And since it is a 3 year gold medal drought, the IIHF pounces. LOL. I love it.
If there was any truth in your rambling, how do you explain Canada topping the first ever IIHF world ranking?

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07-04-2012, 04:38 AM
  #39
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If there was any truth in your rambling, how do you explain Canada topping the first ever IIHF world ranking?
I love it how when somebody (in this case me) expresses an opinion with which somebody (in this case most people in Europe) don't agree with the opinion is attacked as rambling gibberish, blah blah blah. I mean the scope with which people take offense to things is incomprehensible, we've become so sensitive and everything has to be an insult.

I do not agree with the IIHF rankings and simply choose a time frame, attached a numerical value to results based on a medals won and what came out was Canada number 1. My system is just as valid as the IIHF's system. You accept the IIHF formula, you are entitled to accept them or write you own, create your own ranking system, formula that ranks Zimbabwe number 1. I don't care. I will not take offense to it. jeez you people.

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07-04-2012, 04:52 AM
  #40
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Well, can't really argue with the methods they used. They even acknowledged that Canada can't send their best to WJC-18. Not a formula in the world could put Canada #1 after a 2nd, 3rd, 3rd and 4th place finishes in the last four events anyway.

Plus it's after the top countries the rankings really serves a purpose imo. Like seeing Switzerland at #6.
and I was just basing my formula on the U20 team, not the U18 team. come on, 16-17 year olds? Who know what they'll become. Even 18-19 year olds it's tricky trying to project what kind of players they'll become. But based on Canada's results in the last 3 years (IIHF choose 2 years - arbitrary) I choose 3 years - arbitrary - Canada comes out on top with 5 pts tied with the Russians. But I give the tie-breaker to Canada for having won a medal in all 3 years. Ipso facto wamma bammo Canada number 1.

I suspect if Canada were to go on another gold medal run (win 3 or 4 in a row ) then the IIHF would be quick never to mention a junior ranking again.

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07-04-2012, 06:23 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Mr Writer View Post
I love it how when somebody (in this case me) expresses an opinion with which somebody (in this case most people in Europe) don't agree with the opinion is attacked as rambling gibberish, blah blah blah. I mean the scope with which people take offense to things is incomprehensible, we've become so sensitive and everything has to be an insult.

I do not agree with the IIHF rankings and simply choose a time frame, attached a numerical value to results based on a medals won and what came out was Canada number 1. My system is just as valid as the IIHF's system. You accept the IIHF formula, you are entitled to accept them or write you own, create your own ranking system, formula that ranks Zimbabwe number 1. I don't care. I will not take offense to it. jeez you people.
Funny you say that as you clearly have taken offense to this ranking as evident by your posts in this thread

What is the point in using a different formula to the senior ranking if the junior ranking is going to be compared to that? And also your medal points system is completely useless in ranking the lower teams who have not won a medal.

It's also hilarious you actually believe there is an IIHF conspiracy against Canada. Enjoy the ********.

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07-04-2012, 06:29 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
Funny you say that as you clearly have taken offense to this ranking as evident by your posts in this thread
No, just posting an alternative view. Like I said, the IIHF can do their rankings anyway they want. I'll do mine. My ranking system is just as valid as the IIHF's system. That is to say, neither has any validity. It's just statistical data structured so to support your desired result.

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07-04-2012, 06:31 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
Funny you say that as you clearly have taken offense to this ranking as evident by your posts in this thread

What is the point in using a different formula to the senior ranking if the junior ranking is going to be compared to that? And also your medal points system is completely useless in ranking the lower teams who have not won a medal.

It's also hilarious you actually believe there is an IIHF conspiracy against Canada. Enjoy the ********.
sounds like you are a little ******** that somebody dare have an opinion... yyyyyyyyyy.... the utter nerve of a Canadian to have an opinion. just sit in the corner and shut up right. you are hilarious.

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07-04-2012, 06:34 AM
  #44
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Now that Canada is rated 4th in junior world rankings, with the Swedes and Russians so much better, maybe it's time for Canada to rethink it's import rules for junior age European players, perhaps because Canada is so bad a developing players (thus 4th in world ranking) Canada shouldn't be concerning itself with growing the game globally. This is all hilarious.

I think you should calm down and read the whole article, in particular the comment on Canada. After that I think you understand it better.

BTW Sweden won the WJC without Landeskog and Larsson.

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07-04-2012, 07:02 AM
  #45
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I think you should calm down and read the whole article, in particular the comment on Canada. After that I think you understand it better.

BTW Sweden won the WJC without Landeskog and Larsson.
I don't think I wrote anything anywhere in ANY post about ANY team missing ANY players...that wasn't my point. And BTW I was happy to see Sweden win it for a change and I was a big Sweden supporter in that game. I like the way Sweden has turned around it's developmental program in the past 5-8 years.

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07-04-2012, 10:17 AM
  #46
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Canada is 4th. What a joke. And then the IIHF wonders why no one takes them seriously.
Canada U20 - no gold for past three seasons and at U18 level since 2008. I see no reason why you are calling this rankings a joke...

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07-04-2012, 10:22 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Mr Writer View Post
That was not meant for you, that was meant in general, as it seems to me anyway, that Canada always gets criticized for having a perceived negative impact or negative influence on the game as opposed for the good we do to support the game globally.

As for a pan European junior league, if the IIHF and European federations don't want to invest in it, well, they better come up with an alternative solution real soon, adopt the Swedish model because European countries are falling way behind. The IIHF can do their rankings however they want, but the real rankings are Canada USA Sweden Russia Finland....and after that everybody just trying to stay afloat.

Maybe I didn't understand well, but let me try... AFAIK this IIHF ranking, just like the senior one, is about what teams DID ON THE ICE for past xx seasons, and not how many or how many excellent players are they producing through their junior systems...

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07-05-2012, 09:25 AM
  #48
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Maybe I didn't understand well, but let me try... AFAIK this IIHF ranking, just like the senior one, is about what teams DID ON THE ICE for past xx seasons, and not how many or how many excellent players are they producing through their junior systems...
Well put, that's exactly how I interpreted the ranking as well.

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08-17-2012, 02:19 PM
  #49
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Wins 2010 olympics, most successful in all tournaments where best players play one another...gets ranked 5th...
wins 2 WJr's gets ranked 1st

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08-17-2012, 02:48 PM
  #50
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Canada U20 - no gold for past three seasons and at U18 level since 2008. I see no reason why you are calling this rankings a joke...
The Rankings are a Joke because Canada's junior team is without a significant amount of players every year because they are talented enough to be playing in the NHL. We are literally too good for this tournament. The only time the world has ever seen a true top junior team was in 2005...and guess who, to no surprise, mopped the floor with everyone.

The mens rankings should be based only on Olympics because that is the only tournament where mens play best on best. The World championship rosters look nothing like the ones from the olympics so why are they used as a measuring stick for hockey supremacy? it's stupid, and solution is simple...you win the olympics and your the best..duuuhhh and canada has won the most, and most recent olympics.

In my opinion, despite the Russians early exit from the olympics, they are the second best hockey nation and only went out that early because they had to face canada.

The IIHF under 18's don't allow our best because our juniors are in the CHL. the ivan hlinka however does not allow us to put our best in and we've dominated it. although not all teams send their best in that either so we really have no measuring stick at that level. but the under 17's are comprised of the rest of the worlds best against individual provinces from canada, and still we are the best in that. could you imagine what would happen if we combined our country into one team like everyone else.

We are the best. End of story.

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