HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Pittsburgh - Colorado

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-18-2012, 10:53 PM
  #101
CB Joe
Registered User
 
CB Joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,485
vCash: 496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
He never was a top pairing defender, he's always been a good #3 that plays #2 minutes in a pinch and their clubs are worse off for it.
While everyone's not going to agree I remember the popular opinion of Martin at the time he was in New Jersey was that he was a #2 guy.

CB Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2012, 08:31 AM
  #102
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
Golden Swallow
 
Rowdy Roddy Peeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 42,150
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
I guess it's surprising these days that a teammate would have something good to say about another teammate...
The quotes were from Wilson and Burke, his coach and GM...not any teammate. Read much?

Quote:
And to say Martin would have been the best is silly, Rafalski wasn't just the best US defender, he was the best Olympic defender in the entire tournament.
Those quotes came from the two most directly-involved members of Team USA brass, based on his NHL play. They weren't used as evidence that Burke and Wilson can predict the future (!), only to show the high regard Martin was held in - you know, debunking the "#3 defenseman who can play #2 in a pinch" bull. They wouldn't have made those comments about a #3.

Quote:
TOI/G is not a statistic which can be used to quantify someone's playing ability. It simply is not. Just because someone plays a lot doesn't mean they are good. Just because someone plays a little doesn't mean they are bad. If someone gets more PP than PK minutes that doesn't mean they are bad defensively.
You're right. But it can be used to quantify whether a player gets top-pairing minutes, and you originally claimed Martin didn't. You only later changed your wording. And those minutes used in conjunction with other relevant info like what I mentioned can be used to support an argument for being a top pairing defenseman.

What I'm not seeing is a reasonable argument otherwise. All I see is your opinion, supported by absolutely nothing.

Quote:
The mere fact you're trying to claim that because Martin played a lot of minutes on several teams which had mediocre at best defenders is like saying Tom Gilbert is a top pairing defender because he played 24 minutes per game with Edmonton/Minnesota.
Gilbert played top-pairing minutes. If you suggested otherwise, you'd be wrong about that too.


Last edited by Rowdy Roddy Peeper: 08-19-2012 at 08:36 AM.
Rowdy Roddy Peeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2012, 10:03 AM
  #103
Lonewolfe2015
Registered User
 
Lonewolfe2015's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 11,075
vCash: 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
You're right. But it can be used to quantify whether a player gets top-pairing minutes, and you originally claimed Martin didn't. You only later changed your wording.

Gilbert played top-pairing minutes. If you suggested otherwise, you'd be wrong about that too.
Please point out where this statement gets its origin from. Because I never ever would have supported the notion of TOI = Top Pairing defender. Ever.

I don't understand how you can be arguing with me that someone's TOI/G is equivalent to their playing abilities, so I'll let you keep that to yourself, just point out where this "you only later changed your wording" bit came from.

Lonewolfe2015 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2012, 10:33 AM
  #104
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
Golden Swallow
 
Rowdy Roddy Peeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 42,150
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Please point out where this statement gets its origin from. Because I never ever would have supported the notion of TOI = Top Pairing defender. Ever.

I don't understand how you can be arguing with me that someone's TOI/G is equivalent to their playing abilities, so I'll let you keep that to yourself, just point out where this "you only later changed your wording" bit came from.
I never said that, Copernicus.

You said, precisely:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
He never was a top pairing defender, he's always been a good #3 that plays #2 minutes in a pinch and their clubs are worse off for it.
He didn't play #2 minutes "in a pinch". He's played top-pairing minutes regularly for the last half-decade plus.

The quality of his play is at least debatable (even though you haven't supported your claim that he wasn't top-pairing calibre for most of that time, and I have supported the contrary). The quantity of his play is not.

He's played top-pairing minutes regularly, period. Not "in a pinch".

Rowdy Roddy Peeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2012, 10:46 AM
  #105
Blitzburgh87*
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,647
vCash: 500
Flame wars. Shut up already.

Blitzburgh87* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2012, 12:52 PM
  #106
Lonewolfe2015
Registered User
 
Lonewolfe2015's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 11,075
vCash: 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
He's played top-pairing minutes regularly, period. Not "in a pinch".
You're arguing over semantics? Jeez.

In his situation a pinch means because the team had no better options. I haven't changed my tone once. All you keep doing is insinuating I said this and you didn't say that. Give it a rest already.

It's my opinion, I don't feel like digging up some meaningless statistics to try and quantify the absurdity of Paul Martin being worthy of the denomination of a top pairing defender to try and justify a trade proposal which doesn't help our club.

Lonewolfe2015 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2012, 01:09 PM
  #107
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
Golden Swallow
 
Rowdy Roddy Peeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 42,150
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
In his situation a pinch means because the team had no better options. I haven't changed my tone once. All you keep doing is insinuating I said this and you didn't say that. Give it a rest already.
Right. New Jersey was "in a pinch" for 5 consecutive years, and Pittsburgh was for the following 2. In spite of the fact that many teams don't play their #1s as much as Martin, let alone #2s, and Pittsburgh had several veteran defenseman capable of logging tough minutes, including Letang and a guy who was a #1 on his previous team, Michalek.

That's rich.

But hey, anyone can use that argument for any defenseman playing 23 minutes a game like Martin, can't they? Of course, then they'd have to try to argue against quotes from high-end national team brass and the like, which you just prefer to ignore.

Quote:
It's my opinion, I don't feel like digging up some meaningless statistics to try and quantify the absurdity of Paul Martin being worthy of the denomination of a top pairing defender to try and justify a trade proposal which doesn't help our club.
It's apparent you don't feel like digging up anything to support any wacky suggestion you make. You simply assume your word should be taken as gospel in spite of all evidence to the contrary.

Rowdy Roddy Peeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2012, 01:41 PM
  #108
Lonewolfe2015
Registered User
 
Lonewolfe2015's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 11,075
vCash: 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Right. New Jersey was "in a pinch" for 5 consecutive years, and Pittsburgh was for the following 2. In spite of the fact that many teams don't play their #1s as much as Martin, let alone #2s, and Pittsburgh had several veteran defenseman capable of logging tough minutes, including Letang and a guy who was a #1 on his previous team, Michalek.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary

Tell me, how many of those 30 defenders averaging over 23.5 minutes per game are actually top pairing defenders? I count between 7-10 of them being around the #3 mark.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary

How about the year before?

Andrew MacDonald played as many minutes per game as Martin, they must both be top pairing defenders, right?

Did you even look at NJ's defense core before he joined the Penguins? Once Rafalski left they had a bunch of 2nd pairing defenders with Martin the only guy experienced playing a lot of minutes besides Rafalski and being their best option in that prime minutes role.

Michalek must be a top pairing defender too if he was a team's #1 before joining Pittsburgh, so realistically Pittsburgh had 3 top pairing defenders for the past 2 years?

Come on man, in what world does TOI/G mean anything other than that a player played that many minutes per game on average? It likely means they were their team's best option to get that TOI. Which means you compare them to the other options.

I'm not posting statistics because no matter what is posted it can be refuted, statistics are so arbitrary half the time. QoC? It's pointless, over 82 games QoC levels out to be fairly even for all players around the league given that team A plays their 1st line against 3rd pairing defenders and Team B then switches their 3rd pairing to 1st. Corsi? Awesome, a team got shot against more than another, maybe that was how their coach decided to play?

I'm not ignoring quotes, I'm taking them for what they are, praise from their own team and management. If we posted every quote from every coach, teammate and GM of their own players there would be 100 top pairing defenders around the league.

Why do you think New Jersey fans weren't upset to see Martin leave? He wasn't a top pairing defender for them.

Lonewolfe2015 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2012, 05:12 PM
  #109
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
Golden Swallow
 
Rowdy Roddy Peeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 42,150
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary

Tell me, how many of those 30 defenders averaging over 23.5 minutes per game are actually top pairing defenders? I count between 7-10 of them being around the #3 mark.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary

How about the year before?

Andrew MacDonald played as many minutes per game as Martin, they must both be top pairing defenders, right?
You are wasting your time arguing against a point I never made - that TOI/G was an absolute indicator of a defenseman's quality.

My contention was that you were mistaken in saying that Martin only played #2 minutes "in a pinch", and you were. In terms of TOI, he clearly played regular top-pairing minutes.

The rest of my argument was contingent on Martin's reputation around the league, supported by quotes from relevant sources, pay, and demand for services at that pay. Again, you countered with nothing.

Quote:
Did you even look at NJ's defense core before he joined the Penguins? Once Rafalski left they had a bunch of 2nd pairing defenders with Martin the only guy experienced playing a lot of minutes besides Rafalski and being their best option in that prime minutes role.
You can make this argument for the majority of teams around the league. You realize that, right? How many teams have excess top-pairing defensemen just lying around?

Martin got those minutes because his play warranted them.

Quote:
Michalek must be a top pairing defender too if he was a team's #1 before joining Pittsburgh, so realistically Pittsburgh had 3 top pairing defenders for the past 2 years?
That's right. Had a poor season last year though.

Quote:
I'm not ignoring quotes, I'm taking them for what they are, praise from their own team and management. If we posted every quote from every coach, teammate and GM of their own players there would be 100 top pairing defenders around the league.
We're not talking about any old quote from any old coach and GM of any old team. We're talking about the coach and GM of a hockey power calling the player in question probably the best all-around defenseman on the team.

You find any quote from a source like that about any other player, and it'll hold weight.

Quote:
Why do you think New Jersey fans weren't upset to see Martin leave? He wasn't a top pairing defender for them.
Revise history much? Exercise a little due diligence for once and use the search function. Martin was disliked by a good portion of Jersey fans when he left because he made the following comment after signing with the Pens:

"With (Pittsburgh's) system, I'll get more of a chance to make a difference. And Pittsburgh gives me a chance to win now."

The majority was upset to see him go, and especially pissed that he signed within the division and left those parting shots.

But by all means, make up something else to try to bolster your argument.

Rowdy Roddy Peeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2012, 05:27 PM
  #110
jfisher6
#thestructure
 
jfisher6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Denver
Country: United States
Posts: 3,070
vCash: 50
I wouldn't say they are flaming each other at all. Seems pretty civil to me. Just heated.

jfisher6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2012, 05:33 PM
  #111
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
Golden Swallow
 
Rowdy Roddy Peeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 42,150
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfisher6 View Post
I wouldn't say they are flaming each other at all. Seems pretty civil to me. Just heated.
Yep.

Rowdy Roddy Peeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2012, 06:24 PM
  #112
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
Golden Swallow
 
Rowdy Roddy Peeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 42,150
vCash: 500
The funny thing is that I'm not advocating any Martin proposal on here right now.

He didn't play like a top-pairing defenseman last year - or even a middle-pairing defenseman - and no fan of another team is going to just assume it was an aberration, despite his long track record of being a quality defenseman.

The only thing I take issue with is the idea that Martin didn't play and earn top-pairing minutes for the majority of his post-lockout career. There's really nothing to suggest he hasn't.


Last edited by spiny norman: 08-19-2012 at 10:14 PM. Reason: qdp, therefore not needed
Rowdy Roddy Peeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2012, 06:32 PM
  #113
Lonewolfe2015
Registered User
 
Lonewolfe2015's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 11,075
vCash: 239
I guess these are the quotes I should focus on, before mentioning that this entire discussion started because you clinged to the word "pinch" to mean he wasn't capable of playing the minutes. Whereas all I meant was he was not an ideal top pairing defenseman and was used in such a role on teams where it was required he play that role.

Supporting my argument that he was and is a #3 defenseman used as a #2 in a pinch, aka when the team is jammed and has no better #3 or a 2nd top pairing defender (assuming a team even has a top pairing defender, which for awhile NJ did not and arguably is still without).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
We're not talking about any old quote from any old coach and GM of any old team. We're talking about the coach and GM of a hockey power calling the player in question probably the best all-around defenseman on the team.

You find any quote from a source like that about any other player, and it'll hold weight.
Now on the quotes. First, Lebrun claimed he was the best defenseman. Second, his would-be coach claimed he would have been the "most reliable", how does that support the notion he is a top pairing defender? It wasn't even posted after his play, it was posted before when the majority of team USA's defense was slated to be less tenured defenders that they were less familiar with.

The second quote was Burke claiming he was "one of" the best defenseman the US has. I would hope so if he was an expected Olympian. Still doesn't make him a top pairing defender.

Quote:
Revise history much? Exercise a little due diligence for once and use the search function. Martin was disliked by a good portion of Jersey fans when he left because he made the following comment after signing with the Pens:

"With (Pittsburgh's) system, I'll get more of a chance to make a difference. And Pittsburgh gives me a chance to win now."

The majority was upset to see him go, and especially pissed that he signed within the division and left those parting shots.

But by all means, make up something else to try to bolster your argument.
I'm not revising history at all. I live in New Jersey, I know the fans first hand. No one I knew was upset to see Martin leave. There's no need to use a search function. Do you have the same kind of first hand accountings perhaps?

Lonewolfe2015 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2012, 06:36 PM
  #114
Ominous Grey
Registered User
 
Ominous Grey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Country: United States
Posts: 2,986
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiganWolverines View Post
I'm sorry but Simon Despres is not available I guess Pittsburgh and Colorado aren't good trading partners.
I wouldn't say that.

I'd say that Despres very well could be had for the right piece coming back.

Probably easier to pawn Simon off for high value than convince teams Martin is a legitimate Top-4. (I don't know what his deal is.)

Ominous Grey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2012, 07:59 PM
  #115
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
Golden Swallow
 
Rowdy Roddy Peeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 42,150
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
I guess these are the quotes I should focus on, before mentioning that this entire discussion started because you clinged to the word "pinch" to mean he wasn't capable of playing the minutes. Whereas all I meant was he was not an ideal top pairing defenseman and was used in such a role on teams where it was required he play that role.
Glad you clarified your position. I don't agree with it, but at least it's not objectively wrong.

Quote:
Supporting my argument that he was and is a #3 defenseman used as a #2 in a pinch, aka when the team is jammed and has no better #3 or a 2nd top pairing defender (assuming a team even has a top pairing defender, which for awhile NJ did not and arguably is still without).
That whole paragraph is a dangling participle. I'm not trying to be a grammar fiend here, it just doesn't say anything. Supporting your argument...what?

Quote:
Now on the quotes. First, Lebrun claimed he was the best defenseman. Second, his would-be coach claimed he would have been the "most reliable", how does that support the notion he is a top pairing defender? It wasn't even posted after his play, it was posted before when the majority of team USA's defense was slated to be less tenured defenders that they were less familiar with.
You're right, it was Lebrun who said Martin was the best.

As for Wilson's quote, considering Rafalski and Suter were two other defensemen on the roster and indisputably top-pairing defensemen, I'd say the quote is pretty substantive.

Quote:
The second quote was Burke claiming he was "one of" the best defenseman the US has. I would hope so if he was an expected Olympian. Still doesn't make him a top pairing defender.
There were several expected Olympians on the Team USA blueline. They were not all expected to be one of the best by their GM. How would that even be possible?

Quote:
I'm not revising history at all. I live in New Jersey, I know the fans first hand. No one I knew was upset to see Martin leave. There's no need to use a search function. Do you have the same kind of first hand accountings perhaps?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

Rowdy Roddy Peeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2012, 08:24 PM
  #116
Lonewolfe2015
Registered User
 
Lonewolfe2015's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 11,075
vCash: 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
As for Wilson's quote, considering Rafalski and Suter were two other defensemen on the roster and indisputably top-pairing defensemen, I'd say the quote is pretty substantive.

There were several expected Olympians on the Team USA blueline. They were not all expected to be one of the best by their GM. How would that even be possible?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence
I'm going to be frank, I'm bored with this.

Tell me, how does it make sense that someone would claim Martin would be the most reliable defenseman over Suter and Rafalski if they were being more than a good teammate/coach? And how can you assume that because one quote says good things about Martin, he (Burke) never equally praised other defenders elsewhere?

There were 12 invited defenders, only 7 chosen. One would assume they were among the best US defenders, no? Sadly, at the time the Americans didn't even a blueline full of top pairing defenders, so Martin couldn't even have been called one if he was assured a spot over others.

Lonewolfe2015 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2012, 10:06 PM
  #117
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
Golden Swallow
 
Rowdy Roddy Peeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 42,150
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
I'm going to be frank, I'm bored with this.

Tell me, how does it make sense that someone would claim Martin would be the most reliable defenseman over Suter and Rafalski if they were being more than a good teammate/coach?
I'm not here to entertain you.

The quote speaks to Martin's reputation and how well he had been playing. There's a very good reason why he was getting 23+ minutes a night, why he was singled out by Burke and Wilson among talented US blueliners, and why multiple teams were lining up to pay him top-pairing money, and it's not because he was NJ's only option.

Quote:
And how can you assume that because one quote says good things about Martin, he (Burke) never equally praised other defenders elsewhere?
By all means, find the others if you think it was empty praise.

Quote:
There were 12 invited defenders, only 7 chosen. One would assume they were among the best US defenders, no? Sadly, at the time the Americans didn't even a blueline full of top pairing defenders, so Martin couldn't even have been called one if he was assured a spot over others.
Interpret Burke's comment as you will. Wilson's leaves little room for interpretation.

Rowdy Roddy Peeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2012, 10:21 PM
  #118
Lonewolfe2015
Registered User
 
Lonewolfe2015's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 11,075
vCash: 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
I'm not here to entertain you.
But... isn't this forum here to entertain us all?

Quote:
By all means, find the others if you think it was empty praise.
Quote:
"If you're on a job site and you break a hammer, you don't buy a drill you buy another hammer," Burke said during a conference call. "Ryan is a guy that has size, is reliable defensively but also moves the puck well, a la Paul Martin. Tim Gleason is a guy like Mike Komisarek who can kill penalties, block shots, finish checks and chew up some ice time against big bodies."
http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2010/0...c-hockey-team/

Quote:
"If you look at the replacement parts here, the players going in are eerily similar to players they are replacing in terms of what they bring to our roster in a short tournament."
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=516281

Martin can't be that great if being replaced by Whitney and Gleason is eerily similar, can he?

Lonewolfe2015 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-19-2012, 11:26 PM
  #119
thedoctor
                    
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,639
vCash: 500
Martin doesn't have to be either or. The line between a #2 and a #3 is blurry and overlaps. Martin occupies that space IMO. Passable 2, good 3.

At any rate, I'd love to have Martin on the Avs, but his value is spectacularly low right now, and it's hard to say if he's going to recover from this bad year, or if it was an anomaly.

I'd trade Barrie for him, not Hejda. Assuming he'd waive his ntc, which he won't.

thedoctor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2012, 01:44 AM
  #120
DoctrSteveBrule
BrooksOrpeck
 
DoctrSteveBrule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,894
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=516281

Martin can't be that great if being replaced by Whitney and Gleason is eerily similar, can he?
Thats one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Similar play styles =/= similar ability. Erik Christiansen has a pretty good shot. He should fill in nicely for Gaborik. Hey, the Pens were without Crosby for most of the year, Staal played in the top 6. The pens posted their highest point total in years. I guess that means Crosby is no better than Staal. Really smart stuff you're saying.

DoctrSteveBrule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2012, 07:02 AM
  #121
Lonewolfe2015
Registered User
 
Lonewolfe2015's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 11,075
vCash: 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctrSteveBrule View Post
Thats one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Similar play styles =/= similar ability. Erik Christiansen has a pretty good shot. He should fill in nicely for Gaborik. Hey, the Pens were without Crosby for most of the year, Staal played in the top 6. The pens posted their highest point total in years. I guess that means Crosby is no better than Staal. Really smart stuff you're saying.
Awesome literary comprehension here. "Eerily similar" = good shot.

Point was simple, he praised plenty of players.

Lonewolfe2015 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2012, 09:31 AM
  #122
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
Golden Swallow
 
Rowdy Roddy Peeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 42,150
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
But... isn't this forum here to entertain us all?





http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2010/0...c-hockey-team/



http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=516281

Martin can't be that great if being replaced by Whitney and Gleason is eerily similar, can he?
I don't see the supposed contradiction here.

Burke says that both replacement players are "good" (what praise!), and then in the context of putting together a team with a particular skillset and his hammer/drill analogy, he says that Whitney and Martin are eerily similar, then elaborates by saying ""Ryan is a guy that has size, is reliable defensively but also moves the puck well, a la Paul Martin". Combined with Gleason/Komisarek, it's easy to see what Burke meant. They could replace the injured bodies with the same style of player.

Rowdy Roddy Peeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2012, 10:41 AM
  #123
cgf
Registered User
 
cgf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 10,531
vCash: 500
Don't see the point for Colorado, the minimal upgrade next to EJ from Wilson to Martin isn't worth that contract of his, much less giving up McGinn.

cgf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2012, 10:53 AM
  #124
Bender
TheHockeyProspector
 
Bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,946
vCash: 7658
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgf View Post
Don't see the point for Colorado, the minimal upgrade next to EJ from Wilson to Martin isn't worth that contract of his, much less giving up McGinn.
This.

Just stop with this nonsense. You don't think Avs fans can't see through your thinly-veiled schemes?

[Wow...that McGinn kid the Avs picked up at the deadline sure is lighting it up. I guess all he needed was a better chance. Now, how can I screw over the Avs to get him without giving up any pieces that I'd really want to part with. Hmmm. Hey, maybe I can dump some salary at the same time given how much depth we have on the back end.]

Gimme a break. Pens fans have been wanting to dump Martin's ass all frikkin' year. Fair or not, it's not like Avs fans haven't noticed.

Bender is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2012, 12:13 PM
  #125
Ragamuffin Gunner
Lost in The Flood
 
Ragamuffin Gunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 15,526
vCash: 500
How hard is it for Pens fans to understand that Martin is a borderline AHLer and McGinn is a 39 goal scorer?

Ragamuffin Gunner is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:20 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.