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Pssst, Maxim Lapierre had more fighting majors than Lucic last season
He also pulled off the 30/30 100PIM once, he's not perennial for those stats
As tough as Lucic is and as much as he fights, he's a first line winger and one of our best forwards... His job isn't strictly to irritate people and fight, like most 4th liners.
He also just turned 24. He's got a couple of years before he even hits his prime
Lucic had 50 ES points last year (48 the year before). That ranks him top-25 among ALL forwards in the entire league. He ranked 152nd among forwards in PP TOI/G. There goes that argument.
Three years ago Lucic suffered from a bunch of tough injuries. Even then he was given every chance to succeed playing with good centers (Savard/Bergeron/Krejci). Lucic has been every bit as productive as Krejci and Bergeron the past two seasons anyway. If those two "great players" are so skilled, surely to god they'd be able to outscore the slow/stonehanded Milan Lucic.
Lucic has a heavy shot with good vision and hockey sense in the offensive zone. He doesn't move well laterally and has a slow first few steps, but he's not a terrible skater from an overall perspective. He moves well when given room and has above average balance when in motion (which gives him the ability to protect the puck as well as almost anyone). He's made huge improvements in the skating department since he was drafted.
I don't even know how to respond to that last statement. Arguing with you is probably a waste of time if you honestly believe that.
Lucic does literally nothing without other players to do the actual work for him. He just uses his size and goes to the net where he gets points. That's great, it's something every team can use... that doesn't mean he's a first line player. It's funny really that damn near every poster that is arguing this is a Bruins fan... which was my overall point. Fans overrate guys like these and turn them into something they're not.
Lucic does literally nothing without other players to do the actual work for him. He just uses his size and goes to the net where he gets points. That's great, it's something every team can use... that doesn't mean he's a first line player. It's funny really that damn near every poster that is arguing this is a Bruins fan... which was my overall point. Fans overrate guys like these and turn them into something they're not.
Definitely. Just sitting in front of the net gets you 30 and 26 goals, and 62 points in back to back seasons at 23. Why doesn't everyone do it?
You obviously don't watch him play. His offensive skillset is very dynamic. He has a hell of a shot and his skating is very underrated, even by us Bruins fans. Do you want to stand in front of a 225lb man while he's skating as fast as he can up the ice? He's definitely not the fastest, and he's a bit clumsy sometimes, but he can accelerate. If he starts up in his own zone and rushes up to the offensive zone, watch out. He does get a lot of his points by crashing the net, yes, and like you said, there's nothing wrong with that. It's a very valuable commodity. But there's no doubt he's a first line winger.
As tough as Lucic is and as much as he fights, he's a first line winger and one of our best forwards... His job isn't strictly to irritate people and fight, like most 4th liners.
He also just turned 24. He's got a couple of years before he even hits his prime
No knock on Lucic, love the dude, just not the gospel thrown around that he's a consistent 30/30/100
I'm also mature enough to say that Subban is one of my favourites as well but damned dude just led the league in minor penalties and needs some help in knowing when to not get out of position that leads to the minor penalties
Absolutly no way Bruins do this... IF they ever trade Lucic it will be an over payment that's for sure and Ryan is not enough sorry Ducks it's Krejci for Ryan or look elsewhere
Definitely. Just sitting in front of the net gets you 30 and 26 goals, and 62 points in back to back seasons at 23. Why doesn't everyone do it?
You obviously don't watch him play. His offensive skillset is very dynamic. He has a hell of a shot and his skating is very underrated, even by us Bruins fans. Do you want to stand in front of a 225lb man while he's skating as fast as he can up the ice? He's definitely not the fastest, and he's a bit clumsy sometimes, but he can accelerate. If he starts up in his own zone and rushes up to the offensive zone, watch out. He does get a lot of his points by crashing the net, yes, and like you said, there's nothing wrong with that. It's a very valuable commodity. But there's no doubt he's a first line winger.
I'll leave it at this... if he was drafted by the Habs you would be seeing him verrrry differently.
This deal is close but Lucic's scary factor is just to much for the Bruins to give up here. f they could somehow have both players though they could actually be called the Big Bad Bruins again.
Lucic scores when he plays with the best players. When he doesn't see PP time and doesn't get to play with the Krecji's and Bergeron's he doesn't score (see 3 years ago).
I understand Boston fans love him but it doesn't change the fact that he is brutal at skating, he has no hands at all and if he didn't hit he wouldn't be in the NHL.
Your just trying to hard... your obvious bias and agenda are shining bright.
Honestly as a Ducks fan, I would definitely do this. The Bruins are like "yeah right" though. As a student in Boston that watches a lot of Bruins hockey, I see Lucic as the player who most represents what Bruins hockey is about, even more so than Chara or Seguin. In a few years it will be the Seguin show (or this year) but Lucic isn't moving in the near future. I would trade Bobby and a decent prospect for Lucic without hesitation, but obviously as stated already, it won't happen.
I'll leave it at this... if he was drafted by the Habs you would be seeing him verrrry differently.
Just as I'd see Marchand differently. I know why people try to undermine Lucic.
Because they're be jealous that they don't have him. For example, I hate Subban, but I'd never be as bias to say he's a 3rd pairing pylon who has no potential... I'd streak around the Garden if we ever picked him up. But I hate him because I'm jealous the Habs have such a nice, young defenseman.
No matter what anyone says, Lucic is not the type of player that's traded. He won't be traded unless it involves SEVERE overpayment, and Ryan is nowhere near that.
Pssst, Maxim Lapierre had more fighting majors than Lucic last season
He also pulled off the 30/30 100PIM once, he's not perennial for those stats
Look at their fight cards though. Lucic has tilts in his career with Orr, Erskine, Neil, Carkner, Boll, Ivanans, and Brookbank. For a guy playing on your top line, anymore than 5-10 fights a year is too much. The injury risk and time off the ice just isn't worth it.
Honestly though, it's not the premeditated fights that makes Lucic intimidating. It's the unpredictable temper and legitimate nasty streak. Some people will just say that him just being a bully/goon/thug, but if you watch him enough you'll realize he never goes looking for trouble. Leave him alone and he'll just play his game. That's probably been the one knock on him these past few years (at least from me).
Last year Lucic went 26/35 with 135 PIM. The previous year he went 30/32 with 128 PIM. I guess we'll just have to put him in the 28.7/33.3 128 PIM class of power forwards.
Pssst, Maxim Lapierre had more fighting majors than Lucic last season
He also pulled off the 30/30 100PIM once, he's not perennial for those stats
30/30 what? Maxim Lapierre's career high for a season in points is 28 so I know you can't be talking goals and assists which is what I would have assumed knowing Lucic' stats.
Pssst, Maxim Lapierre had more fighting majors than Lucic last season
He also pulled off the 30/30 100PIM once, he's not perennial for those stats
MOD Lapierre hasn't even had a 30 point season nevermind 30g/30a and 100 PIM. Hell, his entire career doesn't have the same point total as Looch's last 2 seasons.
In sum, Lapierre can't hold Looch's jock strap.
Edit: upon further review, I understand what you were saying. Terrible way of wording it however.
Comparing fighting majors of a first and fourth line player is rediculous. How many fights did Burrows and the two Sedins rack up? And please do not compare the Canucks grit to that of the Bs unless you have Alzheimers. Do you even remember the SCF? I'm still waiting for Daniel to sack up and fight Marchy. He left his balls out on the ice. Come to think of it, your whole team did. Go bite more fingers.
Last edited by Fugu: 08-19-2012 at 08:57 PM.
Reason: no need for that
Doesn't matter, we're talking Lucic and we're not the arbitrators in an imaginary RFA hearing
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmbr_24
30/30 what? Maxim Lapierre's career high for a season in points is 28 so I know you can't be talking goals and assists which is what I would have assumed knowing Lucic' stats.
Never said anything about Lapierre being 30/30
Just mentioned that he fought more than Lucic did last season
Quote:
Originally Posted by agreen23
MOD Lapierre hasn't even had a 30 point season nevermind 30g/30a and 100 PIM. Hell, his entire career doesn't have the same point total as Looch's last 2 seasons.
In sum, Lapierre can't hold Looch's jock strap.
Edit: upon further review, I understand what you were saying. Terrible way of wording it however.
Comparing fighting majors of a first and fourth line player is rediculous. How many fights did Burrows and the two Sedins rack up? And please do not compare the Canucks grit to that of the Bs unless you have Alzheimers. Do you even remember the SCF? I'm still waiting for Daniel to sack up and fight Marchy. He left his balls out on the ice. Come to think of it, your whole team did. Go bite more fingers.
No, just terrible comprehension skills. People read what they want not what's on the screen or create assumptions on what the individual is saying than put words in their mouth.
Comparing fighting skills of Lucic and Lapierre is also ridiculous yet the little guy did it more often.
There's the assumption again, where did I mention anything about the Canucks grit?
My point for those of you who will claim that I am accusing Ecuador of attempting to encite a war is that Lucic for having had one 30/30/100 season, everyone loves to point it out and make it seem like he does it every year.
He takes a lot of minor penalties for the amount of time he is on the ice in comparison to other players and those could be stemming from roughing minors during an almost fight but Lucic isn't some Ali on ice that destroys players every game. he fights a low amount of fights for his weight class and he's not taking on the biggest and baddest out there constantly and nor should he as his goals are more important than his fights.
Last edited by spiny norman: 08-19-2012 at 08:33 PM.
Reason: not needed
Doesn't matter, we're talking Lucic and we're not the arbitrators in an imaginary RFA hearing
Never said anything about Lapierre being 30/30
Just mentioned that he fought more than Lucic did last season
No, just terrible comprehension skills. People read what they want not what's on the screen or create assumptions on what the individual is saying than put words in their mouth.
Comparing fighting skills of Lucic and Lapierre is also ridiculous yet the little guy did it more often.
There's the assumption again, where did I mention anything about the Canucks grit?
My point for those of you who will claim that I am accusing Ecuador of attempting to encite a war is that Lucic for having had one 30/30/100 season, everyone loves to point it out and make it seem like he does it every year.
He takes a lot of minor penalties for the amount of time he is on the ice in comparison to other players and those could be stemming from roughing minors during an almost fight but Lucic isn't some Ali on ice that destroys players every game. he fights a low amount of fights for his weight class and he's not taking on the biggest and baddest out there constantly and nor should he as his goals are more important than his fights.
"He also pulled off 30/30/100 once." The he was ambiguous because it followed a sentence where you discussed both players. The word also implies another, reading Lapierre has done it because we all know Looch has.
That is an awful sentence. The word only rather than also would have been useful. And you compared fighting majors between a Nuck and a B thus my tangent comparing the two teams grit.
I never compared their fighting skills. "People read what they want." If comparing Looch's fighting majors with Lapierre is rediculous, why did you do it? Because I sure did not make the comparison to start this.
Looch has only had one season of 30/30/100+ but I consider 25/36/100+ to be just as damn impressive.
For a little guy? Really? Shawn Thornton is an inch shorter, 5 pounds lighter and had 13 more fights than Lapierre. ST has also fought Boogard and Scott.
To simplify things, what was your initial point in comparing Looch's fighting majors to that of Lapierre's? We both know Looch would kill Maxim and that Looch is much more valuable on the ice than in the box. He's not a 4th liner but can fight like one.
Last edited by spiny norman: 08-19-2012 at 08:33 PM.
Reason: qep
Ha, nice. Next thing you're gonna do is tell me that Gill is Butterbean on skates but with fighting ability due to size.
No doubt that Lucic would destroy Lapierre into oblivion. The point is is that for all this "Lucic is a fighter", he doesn't do it as often as non fighters nor does he take on the fighters of the league. Lets take a look at his fight list for last season:
Gaustad
Carkner
Sesito
Kaleta
Prust
Komisarek
he hasn't fought any of the established guys since Boll in 2010 and he lost that one marginally
Hell, Orr handed Lucic a beating back a couple seasons ago by getting in more and better shots.
I love Lucic but he's not the type of player people on this board they make him out to be and is not worth more than Ryan for the stated reasons of being 30/30/100 and a goal scoring version of Domi.
No matter how you argue my points, it doesn't change his stats nor does it change his fighting partners
Side note:
Lapierre and Thornton are the same height while Thornton has +10 pounds
Ha, nice. Next thing you're gonna do is tell me that Gill is Butterbean on skates but with fighting ability due to size.
No doubt that Lucic would destroy Lapierre into oblivion. The point is is that for all this "Lucic is a fighter", he doesn't do it as often as non fighters nor does he take on the fighters of the league. Lets take a look at his fight list for last season:
Gaustad
Carkner
Sesito
Kaleta
Prust
Komisarek
he hasn't fought any of the established guys since Boll in 2010 and he lost that one marginally
Hell, Orr handed Lucic a beating back a couple seasons ago by getting in more and better shots.
I love Lucic but he's not the type of player people on this board they make him out to be and is not worth more than Ryan for the stated reasons of being 30/30/100 and a goal scoring version of Domi.
No matter how you argue my points, it doesn't change his stats nor does it change his fighting partners
Side note:
Lapierre and Thornton are the same height while Thornton has +10 pounds
Say whatever you want, you won't find one true Bruins fan who would trade Lucic for Ryan straight up.
Say whatever you want, you won't find one true Bruins fan who would trade Lucic for Ryan straight up.
No doubt and they would be justified not to and the same goes for fans saying they wouldn't trade Ryan for Lucic
It's all a matter of personal preference in the player you want on your team
Ha, nice. Next thing you're gonna do is tell me that Gill is Butterbean on skates but with fighting ability due to size.
No doubt that Lucic would destroy Lapierre into oblivion. The point is is that for all this "Lucic is a fighter", he doesn't do it as often as non fighters nor does he take on the fighters of the league. Lets take a look at his fight list for last season:
Gaustad
Carkner
Sesito
Kaleta
Prust
Komisarek
he hasn't fought any of the established guys since Boll in 2010 and he lost that one marginally
Hell, Orr handed Lucic a beating back a couple seasons ago by getting in more and better shots.
I love Lucic but he's not the type of player people on this board they make him out to be and is not worth more than Ryan for the stated reasons of being 30/30/100 and a goal scoring version of Domi.
No matter how you argue my points, it doesn't change his stats nor does it change his fighting partners
Side note:
Lapierre and Thornton are the same height while Thornton has +10 pounds
Matt Carkner is a pretty tough dude and a legit established NHL heavyweight IMO. This is the first time Lucic and Boll met (Lucic was 19).
Orr handled Lucic when he was what 20 or 21 years old? How many players that age would even think about going head to head with guys like Orr? I'm 100% confident 25-28 year old Lucic can handle himself against anyone in the league. He won't win every fight (who does?), but he's probably the only 60+ point top-6 forward left in the game who has the stones to stand toe to toe with heavyweights (maybe Clowe).
Again though, like I said, it's not fighting that makes Lucic scary. It's the fact that he can be unpredictable and flat out dangerous when he snaps.
Do you think anyone other than the opposing heavyweaight is fearing Shawn Thornton and his 20+ fights (or Lapierre and his 7)? I doubt it. Like so many others designated tough guys, he's a live by the code staged fighter only. Lucic is a completely different animal. That's what makes him unique.
Just can't let it go can you?
Age aside, because it seems to be your main sticking point in the argument, Lucic hasn't fought anyone worthwhile in a couple seasons or a season and a half. I'm not saying he's going to go all gangbusters on the leagues fighters nor am I saying he's going to keep fighting people outside his weightclass/fighting skill level. Just stating he hasn't done much in that category for a bit.
Speaking in another thread about production decline (player scoring peaks at 25 by the stats), it would be interesting to see the stats on fighting wins decline at a certain age as well.
yes, his "hulking out" is a danger to any non-fighter or fighters outside of the top 10 that comes across his path.
the Lucic/Carkner fight, I didn't watch that game because I can't stand to watch Sens games for long for some reason. Good and exciting last season but I still can't watch em for a whole game.
Age aside, because it seems to be your main sticking point in the argument, Lucic hasn't fought anyone worthwhile in a couple seasons or a season and a half. I'm not saying he's going to go all gangbusters on the leagues fighters nor am I saying he's going to keep fighting people outside his weightclass/fighting skill level. Just stating he hasn't done much in that category for a bit.
Speaking in another thread about production decline (player scoring peaks at 25 by the stats), it would be interesting to see the stats on fighting wins decline at a certain age as well.
yes, his "hulking out" is a danger to any non-fighter or fighters outside of the top 10 that comes across his path.
the Lucic/Carkner fight, I didn't watch that game because I can't stand to watch Sens games for long for some reason. Good and exciting last season but I still can't watch em for a whole game.
Carkner is worthwhile, whether you took the time to watch it or not. He destroyed Prust and Gaustad last year. The year before that he fought Vandermeer, Erskine, Rosehill, and Prust again. Is he taking on 5-8 minute a night enforcers every night? No (Why would he?). Can he? Yes. That`s my point.
It's difficult to put a value on those traits. Aside from maybe Seguin, Lucic is the only other player currently on the team who has that game changing ability. Bergeron and Chara are great players (best two on the club), but even they don't dramatically alter the pace and intensity of a game like Lucic can IMO.
