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Off-season Armchair GM Thread Part IX

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Old
08-19-2012, 09:11 PM
  #76
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soo i was wondering what are some of your guy's projected lineups for the upcoming season?

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08-19-2012, 09:20 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Backstrom is an inferior goaltender to Niemi, so no we really don't.

LOL....NO.



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Does anyone know when Stalock will start to transition onto the NHL roster?
We can only hope that it starts this year.

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08-19-2012, 10:00 PM
  #78
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We can only hope that it starts this year.
I hope it's not this year. This year would mean one of Niemi or Greiss got injured.

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08-19-2012, 10:23 PM
  #79
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I hope it's not this year. This year would mean one of Niemi or Greiss got injured.
It may be for the best if Niemi gets an injury. If they keep refusing to play Greiss then we'll never know how good he actually is. Then he'll walk away next year and then that means Stalock is gonna be stuck in the spot that Greiss is in and it'll be terrible. Why have all these prospects when they never get a chance.

Usually, if a team has a prospect that has the ability but their team has a workhorse goalie then they don't get a chance unless the starter has an injury. Like Holtby, or Hackett, or Bachman.

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08-19-2012, 10:31 PM
  #80
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It may be for the best if Niemi gets an injury. If they keep refusing to play Greiss then we'll never know how good he actually is. Then he'll walk away next year and then that means Stalock is gonna be stuck in the spot that Greiss is in and it'll be terrible. Why have all these prospects when they never get a chance.

Usually, if a team has a prospect that has the ability but their team has a workhorse goalie then they don't get a chance unless the starter has an injury. Like Holtby, or Hackett, or Bachman.
I have very high hopes for Stalock, I think he has a lot better chance to be an NHL #1 goalie (or even pull a Nabbie) than Greiss.

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08-19-2012, 10:36 PM
  #81
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Does anyone know when Stalock will start to transition onto the NHL roster?
If he's playing well and appears to have regained his game, i'd like to see him get 5-10 NHL games this year to see how he does at that level.

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08-20-2012, 01:02 AM
  #82
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I have very high hopes for Stalock, I think he has a lot better chance to be an NHL #1 goalie (or even pull a Nabbie) than Greiss.

Yep.

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08-20-2012, 01:10 AM
  #83
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Basing personnel decisions on nostalgia is how you turn into the Calgary FLames....
I don't think you can ruin a team by being nostalgic over a #7 defenseman and a 4th line winger. If I expected Hannan to play a top-4 role and Sturm being a scoring player, then I would be ruining the team.

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08-20-2012, 02:49 AM
  #84
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I don't think you can ruin a team by being nostalgic over a #7 defenseman and a 4th line winger. If I expected Hannan to play a top-4 role and Sturm being a scoring player, then I would be ruining the team.
That's funny, it was the 7th defenseman and 4th line winger that crippled Calgary and changed them from a surefire champion to a bottom-feeder, not the complete lack of talent.

I'd love to have both back. Why? For one, it means that we've traded Murray. Second, and depressingly, it appears that 25 games of Sturm would be an improvement over what we currently have.

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08-20-2012, 11:47 AM
  #85
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Greiss' contract is one-way this year so barring trade or injury it very likely will be Niemi-Greiss in the big leagues all season.


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08-20-2012, 02:09 PM
  #86
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I don't think you can ruin a team by being nostalgic over a #7 defenseman and a 4th line winger. If I expected Hannan to play a top-4 role and Sturm being a scoring player, then I would be ruining the team.
You can when a teams biggest problem is supposedly it's depth... ;P A couple injuries and Sturm is a 2nd liner and Hannan is playing 15 to 20 minutes a night. Sounds like a recipe for missing the playoffs to me..

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08-20-2012, 02:14 PM
  #87
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That's funny, it was the 7th defenseman and 4th line winger that crippled Calgary and changed them from a surefire champion to a bottom-feeder, not the complete lack of talent.

I'd love to have both back. Why? For one, it means that we've traded Murray. Second, and depressingly, it appears that 25 games of Sturm would be an improvement over what we currently have.

That's just rediculous... Murray is way better at this point than hannan and it's not even close. Sturm would be an acceptable addition if it's to play 4th line with some occasional 3rd line. He had 3 goals in 42 games last year. If you could sign the Sturm from 09-10 season for the 3rd line I would be all for that. But he may have been injured one too many times now as it doesn't appear he has much of anything left to give. I was a huge fan of his when he was with the sharks but the only player they should have brought back was Nolan in previous years.


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08-20-2012, 03:30 PM
  #88
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That's just rediculous... Murray is way better at this point than hannan and it's not even close. Sturm would be an acceptable addition if it's to play 4th line with some occasional 3rd line. He had 3 goals in 42 games last year. If you could sign the Sturm from 09-10 season for the 3rd line I would be all for that. But he may have been injured one too many times now as it doesn't appear he has much of anything left to give. I was a huge fan of his when he was with the sharks but the only player they should have brought back was Nolan in previous years.
You've completely missed the Murray point.: A $2.5 million 7th defenseman is a waste of money. Murray is better than Hannan, but not 2.5 times better. If that extra 1.5 million could be used to solidify our bottom 6 instead of making our pressbox more talented then it's a good thing. I'd hope for a 3rd liner as a return for Murray, actually.

Sturm would be a 4th liner, and nothing more. Burish-probably slightly overpaid Murray acquisition-Wingels would slightly appease me. With Sturm-Desjardins-Galiardi or some combination as our 4th line we'd actually have a decent bottom 6, with hopes of improving via trade during the season. This would also allow us to not have to rely on Sheppard, and if he was good it would just be gravy.

Edit: Ideally Burish would be on our 4th line, but unless Wilson pulls a rabbit out of his hat that's not happening.

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08-20-2012, 03:38 PM
  #89
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You can when a teams biggest problem is supposedly it's depth... ;P A couple injuries and Sturm is a 2nd liner and Hannan is playing 15 to 20 minutes a night. Sounds like a recipe for missing the playoffs to me..

How does that have anything to do with Sturm and Hannan specificallly? A couple injuries as is and you have Sheppard and Pelech in their place...

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08-20-2012, 03:47 PM
  #90
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You can when a teams biggest problem is supposedly it's depth... ;P A couple injuries and Sturm is a 2nd liner and Hannan is playing 15 to 20 minutes a night. Sounds like a recipe for missing the playoffs to me..
Firstly, there would have to be a helluva lot of injuries for Sturm to go from the 4th to the 2nd line.

And secondly, with the way that Sharks have their defensive set up (the top-3 eating tons of minutes, then the 4-5 guys with a reasonably amount, then the last guy with significantly less, AFAIK) the number six, Hannan in the case of injury, would be playing 13-14 minutes.

But like Fetus said, we'd have someone just as crappy taking those injuries spots regardless.

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08-20-2012, 05:16 PM
  #91
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So I'm really intrigued by Paul Holmgren. He's getting tons of guys locked up long term, but I feel like the long term deals will hurt them in the future.

Salary Cap 2014-2015
Danny Briere >> $6.5M (1 more year)
Jakub Voracek >> $4.25M (2 more years)
Scott Hartnell >> $4.75M (4 more years)
Max Talbot >> $1.75M (2 more years)
Wayne Simmonds >> 3.975M (4 more years)

Braydon Coburn >> $4.5M (2 more years)
Luke Schenn >> $3.6M (2 more years)
Nicklas Grossmann >> $3.5M (2 more years)
(Chris Pronger >> $4.9M (3 more years))

Ilya Bryzgalov >> $5.67M (until the end of time)

That's $38.5M ($43.4M with Pronger) tied up in 5 forwards, only 3 of which are top-6 and two of which will be Briere at 36 y/o and Hartnell, whose body might give out sooner rather than later ala Clowe, three defensemen, only one of which is top-pairing, and a bipolar goaltender. That's almost $40 million in 9 players. That doesn't include Claude Giroux, Brayden Schenn, and Sean Couturier, all of whom will be RFA, and Matt Read and Andrej Meszaros, who will be UFA, and a #1 defenseman. I'll assume Giroux will get a long, cap-circumventing contract in the neighborhood of $7M. Couturier and Schenn will get around $4M each, going by the JVR, Voracek, and Simmonds deals as comp. Add those three in and that's $53M without Pronger and without Read or Meszaros or a #1 defenseman. It's still only 8 forwards, 3 defensemen, and a goaltender. Assume Meszaros is re-signed at $4.5M (as he already makes $4M) and Read at $2.5M (conservatively), that's $60M (without Pronger) for 9 forwards, 4 defensemen not including a #1, and a bipolar starter. And I went conservative on Giroux, Schenn, Couturier, Meszaros, and Read. If the cap keeps going up, they'll probably get more. And Schenn and Couturier are (and will be) better players than Simmonds.

So suffice to say, I have no idea what Holmgren's doing.

EDIT: Oh, and we only have $25M in cap space committed after July 1st, 2014. We should put massive offersheets in to Giroux and the rest.

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08-20-2012, 05:46 PM
  #92
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You've completely missed the Murray point.: A $2.5 million 7th defenseman is a waste of money. Murray is better than Hannan, but not 2.5 times better. If that extra 1.5 million could be used to solidify our bottom 6 instead of making our pressbox more talented then it's a good thing. I'd hope for a 3rd liner as a return for Murray, actually.

Sturm would be a 4th liner, and nothing more. Burish-probably slightly overpaid Murray acquisition-Wingels would slightly appease me. With Sturm-Desjardins-Galiardi or some combination as our 4th line we'd actually have a decent bottom 6, with hopes of improving via trade during the season. This would also allow us to not have to rely on Sheppard, and if he was good it would just be gravy.

Edit: Ideally Burish would be on our 4th line, but unless Wilson pulls a rabbit out of his hat that's not happening.
Sorry but I didn't miss the point. I would rather be thin at forward than D. With Murray we have 7 legit NHL D-men. It would be better to have 8 because injuries do happen. If Hannan were the 8th I could somewhat live with that but I would rather have Vandy instead. If Hannan is 7th, one injury to the top 6 puts hannan in the lineup regulary which to me would be devastating to the defense whether he played 20 mintues or we had to play the good defenseman too much to cover up for his lack of contribution.

Zues is playing on this team next season barring a trade. No ifs ands or butts. He is your 3rd line center unless Desi outplays him in camp or if they plan to put Wingels back at center or move pavs down and go 3 scoring lines. Frankly, I think Zeus rebounds so a line with him and Burrish and Wingles or TJ is fine to me. Not great but they should have enough speed and work ethic to do well. The spring before the sharks signed Zeus he played incredibly well against us in the first round of the playoffs. No reason he can't get back to that level.

I would rather trade Clowe than Murray. Better return and better chance to upgrade the overall pace that the top 6 will play at. Clowes fighting and hitting can be replaced. His points will be replaced by a combo of whoever they get for him as well as more games out of Havlat and another season of development by COuture. Murray is rarity on the back end as someone who can pretty much deck anyone in the league no matter how big.

So no, I don't trade murray and bring in a washed up Hannan. Vandy is a big body too so if you want to trade murray, bring back vandy and fill the 8th D with Pelech if he's ready (can fight), that's fine. But I still trade clowe because he'll actually be worth something to another team.

As far as burrish, he's been playing as a 3rd liner the last 2 years and doing very well according to the stat guys. All this talk of him being on the 4th line is silly at this point. He wasn't signed to play on the 4th line.


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08-20-2012, 05:50 PM
  #93
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How does that have anything to do with Sturm and Hannan specificallly? A couple injuries as is and you have Sheppard and Pelech in their place...
If you trade don't trade murray you have him going in not Pelech. I'd rather take the chance with the 24 year old Sheppard than sturm at this point. But truth is it wouldn't be sheppard they would bring in to fill for injuroes.. it would be whoever the scoring leader for the baby sharks is or maybe TJ, burrish or Wingels that gets moved up. I think Shep is the last of those to see top 6 minutes in the event of an injury.

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08-20-2012, 06:14 PM
  #94
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So I'm really intrigued by Paul Holmgren. He's getting tons of guys locked up long term, but I feel like the long term deals will hurt them in the future.

Salary Cap 2014-2015
Danny Briere >> $6.5M (1 more year)
Jakub Voracek >> $4.25M (2 more years)
Scott Hartnell >> $4.75M (4 more years)
Max Talbot >> $1.75M (2 more years)
Wayne Simmonds >> 3.975M (4 more years)

Braydon Coburn >> $4.5M (2 more years)
Luke Schenn >> $3.6M (2 more years)
Nicklas Grossmann >> $3.5M (2 more years)
(Chris Pronger >> $4.9M (3 more years))

Ilya Bryzgalov >> $5.67M (until the end of time)

That's $38.5M ($43.4M with Pronger) tied up in 5 forwards, only 3 of which are top-6 and two of which will be Briere at 36 y/o and Hartnell, whose body might give out sooner rather than later ala Clowe, three defensemen, only one of which is top-pairing, and a bipolar goaltender. That's almost $40 million in 9 players. That doesn't include Claude Giroux, Brayden Schenn, and Sean Couturier, all of whom will be RFA, and Matt Read and Andrej Meszaros, who will be UFA, and a #1 defenseman. I'll assume Giroux will get a long, cap-circumventing contract in the neighborhood of $7M. Couturier and Schenn will get around $4M each, going by the JVR, Voracek, and Simmonds deals as comp. Add those three in and that's $53M without Pronger and without Read or Meszaros or a #1 defenseman. It's still only 8 forwards, 3 defensemen, and a goaltender. Assume Meszaros is re-signed at $4.5M (as he already makes $4M) and Read at $2.5M (conservatively), that's $60M (without Pronger) for 9 forwards, 4 defensemen not including a #1, and a bipolar starter. And I went conservative on Giroux, Schenn, Couturier, Meszaros, and Read. If the cap keeps going up, they'll probably get more. And Schenn and Couturier are (and will be) better players than Simmonds.

So suffice to say, I have no idea what Holmgren's doing.

EDIT: Oh, and we only have $25M in cap space committed after July 1st, 2014. We should put massive offersheets in to Giroux and the rest.
I agree. I don't know how they are going to be able to afford their good young player's in the future.

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08-20-2012, 06:35 PM
  #95
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If you trade don't trade murray you have him going in not Pelech.
The #4 doesn't play as much as the #1-#3. Not to mention in your case, even having Murray as a #4 means your #5 and your #6 are Pelech/Irwin/Petrecki. At that point, the team would be screwed regardless of the Murray Hannan debate.

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But truth is it wouldn't be sheppard they would bring in to fill for injuroes.. it would be whoever the scoring leader for the baby sharks is or maybe TJ, burrish or Wingels that gets moved up.
Yeah, and it wouldn't be Sturm either so I don't get your point.

It just seems like you tried to make a bad joke with the Calgary reference and it backfired.

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08-20-2012, 06:52 PM
  #96
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Fisher signs 2 yrs @ 4.2m

Hartnell signs 6 yrs @ 4.75m

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08-20-2012, 07:08 PM
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Sorry but I didn't miss the point. I would rather be thin at forward than D. With Murray we have 7 legit NHL D-men. It would be better to have 8 because injuries do happen. If Hannan were the 8th I could somewhat live with that but I would rather have Vandy instead. If Hannan is 7th, one injury to the top 6 puts hannan in the lineup regulary which to me would be devastating to the defense whether he played 20 mintues or we had to play the good defenseman too much to cover up for his lack of contribution.

Zues is playing on this team next season barring a trade. No ifs ands or butts. He is your 3rd line center unless Desi outplays him in camp or if they plan to put Wingels back at center or move pavs down and go 3 scoring lines. Frankly, I think Zeus rebounds so a line with him and Burrish and Wingles or TJ is fine to me. Not great but they should have enough speed and work ethic to do well. The spring before the sharks signed Zeus he played incredibly well against us in the first round of the playoffs. No reason he can't get back to that level.

I would rather trade Clowe than Murray. Better return and better chance to upgrade the overall pace that the top 6 will play at. Clowes fighting and hitting can be replaced. His points will be replaced by a combo of whoever they get for him as well as more games out of Havlat and another season of development by COuture. Murray is rarity on the back end as someone who can pretty much deck anyone in the league no matter how big.

So no, I don't trade murray and bring in a washed up Hannan. Vandy is a big body too so if you want to trade murray, bring back vandy and fill the 8th D with Pelech if he's ready (can fight), that's fine. But I still trade clowe because he'll actually be worth something to another team.

As far as burrish, he's been playing as a 3rd liner the last 2 years and doing very well according to the stat guys. All this talk of him being on the 4th line is silly at this point. He wasn't signed to play on the 4th line.
Agree with the bold.

And unless DW has a plan to resign Clowe for 3mil or less and Murray for 1.5, they both should be traded for assets because next summer SOMEBODY will throw $$ at both of them. Maybe due to the labor issues DW hasnt pulled the trigger yet but I believe he has something planned and Clowe/Murray probably dont spend halloween in San Jose.

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08-20-2012, 07:15 PM
  #98
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As far as burrish, he's been playing as a 3rd liner the last 2 years and doing very well according to the stat guys. All this talk of him being on the 4th line is silly at this point. He wasn't signed to play on the 4th line.
From what I have heard from the Stars guys, he is not a good 3rd liner and better suited on the 4th line. McLellan might run a TJ-Zeus-Burrish as his 3rd line but if we were a team with any depths, we would have a 4th line of TJ-Desi-Burrish which would be one of the best in the league.

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08-20-2012, 07:17 PM
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we would have a 4th line of TJ-Desi-Burrish which would be one of the best in the league.
I kinda want a Wingels - Desjardins - Burish line as the 4th line. Wingels and Desjardins have chemistry and they were great with Winnik in the playoffs. Burish and Winnik are similar enough.

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08-20-2012, 07:20 PM
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Works either way. Neither TJ nor Wingels bring real 3rd line offense.

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