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Luongo Thread - Scorcher 6: Global Meltdown (Mod Warning Post # 694)

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08-20-2012, 11:25 AM
  #76
Barney Gumble
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As mentioned in other threads, Dominic Moore might've been good to take a flyer on as a bottom six center. Too bad "the history" will make that highly unlikely to happen.

Certainly better than getting that type of player as one of the main pieces in a Luongo trade.

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08-20-2012, 11:40 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
As mentioned in other threads, Dominic Moore might've been good to take a flyer on as a bottom six center. Too bad "the history" will make that highly unlikely to happen.

Certainly better than getting that type of player as one of the main pieces in a Luongo trade.
Exactly. We could sign Dominic Moore, Jason Arnott or Daymond Langkow for free, or we could trade our best tradable asset for a similar player. Hmmmm...

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08-20-2012, 11:42 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Yeah, maybe Luongo can score goals from the bench come playoff time. Bring on the cup!

When will some of you learn we need more offense.
Right, cuz it makes sense to dump your best tradable asset for garbage rather than holding on to him until a useful asset is offered to us. Cuz you know, Schneider has proven he can be an NHL number 1 over a full season and playoffs.


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08-20-2012, 11:46 AM
  #79
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What?
Are you being serious?
Yes, he r being very serious.

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08-20-2012, 12:43 PM
  #80
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If only.
Sure the Maki family would love that...

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08-20-2012, 01:23 PM
  #81
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Sure the Maki family would love that...
I honestly would expect an objection to come from Messier to be honest. He just seems like that kinda guy.

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08-20-2012, 01:56 PM
  #82
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If only.
Why has there been such an influx of Huberdeau lately? Isn't the concensus that Tallon won't even give up Bjustad? Huberdeau is higher up than Bjustad, surely.

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08-20-2012, 01:59 PM
  #83
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Why has there been such an influx of Huberdeau lately? Isn't the concensus that Tallon won't even give up Bjustad? Huberdeau is higher up than Bjustad, surely.
Although Huberdeau will likely not play centre at the NHL level, according to most Flotlrida fans, which is why Bjugstad is considered their only good centre prospect.

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08-20-2012, 02:24 PM
  #84
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How do you know he doesn't win the job back with us?
I find it pretty unlikely that Schneider fails completely. There's a reason all of this is happening, they want schneider in the starting role.

I highly doubt Luongo will go from "I want to be a #1 guy, it's time to move on" to "I dont mind playing 30-40 games this year and not getting a start in the playoffs, i'll take the backseat."

Last year was about who was going to win the job, Schneider won, Luongo knows that, I dont think he's going into the year thinking he's still a big part of the canucks.

On another note what happens when gillis doesnt get the price he wants by say the deadline? with the market being so small it is possible.

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08-20-2012, 02:41 PM
  #85
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Wish this thread would just get locked and only opened if there's a new rumor floating around.

Little less than 2 weeks till the start of September.. Somethings got to give.

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08-20-2012, 02:43 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Figz14 View Post
Wish this thread would just get locked and only opened if there's a new rumor floating around.

Little less than 2 weeks till the start of September.. Somethings got to give.
has gillis or luongo said anything lately? I would hope Lu has something to say if he's still there by training camp(if it starts on time of course).

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08-20-2012, 03:02 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Right, cuz it makes sense to dump your best tradable asset for garbage rather than holding on to him until a useful asset is offered to us. Cuz you know, Schneider has proven he can be an NHL number 1 over a full season and playoffs.

you keep missing the elephant in the room that just because YOU give Luongo this ridiculous value doesn't mean that's actually his value. You keep saying he's our most valuable asset or most tradeable asset, yet we're how many months into this saga and he hasn't been traded yet. The dots just don't connect, no matter how many times you spin them.

Generally, I applaud Gillis's patience. I mean if it wasn't for Gillis's patience, Schneider would have been dealt at a trade deadline sometime over the past couple of years. But at some point even Gillis is going to have to acknowledge that his asking price is too high and start considering the options on the table. Value is what you can get, not what you feel you should get based on fantasy and pixie dust.

At this point, it seems pretty unlikely Gillis is ever going to get this mythical "fills all our holes" return for Luongo. Time to settle for improving our depth and asset pool.

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08-20-2012, 03:06 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by alternate View Post
you keep missing the elephant in the room that just because YOU give Luongo this ridiculous value doesn't mean that's actually his value. You keep saying he's our most valuable asset or most tradeable asset, yet we're how many months into this saga and he hasn't been traded yet. The dots just don't connect, no matter how many times you spin them.

Generally, I applaud Gillis's patience. I mean if it wasn't for Gillis's patience, Schneider would have been dealt at a trade deadline sometime over the past couple of years. But at some point even Gillis is going to have to acknowledge that his asking price is too high and start considering the options on the table. Value is what you can get, not what you feel you should get based on fantasy and pixie dust.

At this point, it seems pretty unlikely Gillis is ever going to get this mythical "fills all our holes" return for Luongo. Time to settle for improving our depth and asset pool.
Why? Just because you don't like Luongo?! If the value he brings to this team is greater than what we can get for him in a trade, wouldn't you agree that it would be stupid to trade him??

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08-20-2012, 03:11 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Why? Just because you don't like Luongo?! If the value he brings to this team is greater than what we can get for him in a trade, wouldn't you agree that it would be stupid to trade him??
If a player brings more value to his team then he actually has League wide does that mean his value is what it is to the team he is on? Sometimes players have more value to their team then they really have. Not saying Luongo is said player but you get my point.

What about when said player has said he thinks its best to move on from this team?

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08-20-2012, 03:15 PM
  #90
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From that list I'd target Hossa as long as the + from our end is someone like Raymond.

Anything else and I'd rather hold on to our elite goalie.
Because he's going to address our scoring woes, am I right?

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08-20-2012, 03:39 PM
  #91
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Because he's going to address our scoring woes, am I right?
What if trading Schneider could?

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08-20-2012, 04:02 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
What if trading Schneider could?







To be a bit less glib about it - what's the point of bringing that up for the umpteenth time? The writing is on the wall, Luongo and the Canucks are moving on and that's what this discussion is about. Sure if he starts the season here and proceeds to massively outperforms Cory Schneider then he may end up in a Canucks jersey for longer than most anticipate but IMO it would simply be delaying the inevitable.


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08-20-2012, 04:14 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by dave babych returns View Post







To be a bit less glib about it - what's the point of bringing that up for the umpteenth time? The writing is on the wall, Luongo and the Canucks are moving on and that's what this discussion is about. Sure if he starts the season here and proceeds to massively outperforms Cory Schneider then he may end up in a Canucks jersey for longer than most anticipate but IMO it would simply be delaying the inevitable.
Well I'm all about wanting to see the best team on the ice and wanting to win a Stanley cup. I couldn't give a crap about the media, and I can check my bias at the door when it comes to players I like and players I don't. I accept that we are built around playoff flake forwards. I'm not suggesting a full blown rebuild, I'm suggesting working with what we have, and adding pieces that help this team win a cup. As such, we need to address our lousy offense. If Luongo comes back on fire and you can get an impact forward for Schneider then it makes sense to make that move to win a Cup.

If you don't make moves with the Stanley Cup in your mind, then what the hell are you doing?

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08-20-2012, 04:24 PM
  #94
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No one player is going to realistically address this team's scoring issues. I think it's systemic.


Their focus is getting into the zone, but not breaking a collapsing D down once there. That's not easily resolved.



Opendoor made a point about the 5th and 6th top6 forwards not producing the PPG required. The Sedins, Kesler and Burrows are doing their part, but they need 2 more. I think those 2 can be found here.


Consider AMEX was split apart for the playoffs. Higgins was on the 3rd line. Booth also had no playoff experience to that point. So you have an unknown in Booth, and chemistry that was actively squandered. Perhaps keeping them together will yield much better results.



Some have also mentioned that we have roughly 6 top6 wingers. How many teams can say that? Kassian is also looking to make his mark. And while others have already dismissed Schroeder - I put him in the Hodgson category: A smaller skilled player likely to take advantage of softer matchups. People were ready to run with him here in the playoffs, so why the hate for Schroeder? It's not like Hodgson was much more physical...


It comes down to will. I think the pieces are already here - far more than most other teams can claim. So it comes down to willfully attacking a collapsing defense. That's it. You can add piece after piece, but it's not going to make a lick of difference if the players here aren't willing to pay the price to win.

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Old
08-20-2012, 04:24 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Well I'm all about wanting to see the best team on the ice and wanting to win a Stanley cup. I couldn't give a crap about the media, and I can check my bias at the door when it comes to players I like and players I don't. I accept that we are built around playoff flake forwards. I'm not suggesting a full blown rebuild, I'm suggesting working with what we have, and adding pieces that help this team win a cup. As such, we need to address our lousy offense. If Luongo comes back on fire and you can get an impact forward for Schneider then it makes sense to make that move to win a Cup.

If you don't make moves with the Stanley Cup in your mind, then what the hell are you doing?
Then he is traded to address our "lousy offense".


You really need accept the fact that Luongo's days as a Canuck are numbered & that even if he out performs Schneider that he is not in our future plans. The sooner you do the easier it will be for you when he is traded & the smoother these threads will go.

You have to think Schneider was re-signed with the knowledge that he would be our starting goalie & the goalie we are going with from now on, what does that say about our GM if he goes back on his word like that?

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08-20-2012, 04:36 PM
  #96
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Age is the key factor. Lu would have to return and blow Schneider out of the water for it to even be a question. Still, I think MG goes with the far younger option.

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08-20-2012, 04:36 PM
  #97
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Well I'm all about wanting to see the best team on the ice and wanting to win a Stanley cup. I couldn't give a crap about the media,
Well as has been mentioned we're not talking about simply assembling the best roster EA sports style - otherwise we would have waived Luongo to Columbus and let them give us Rick Nash or a package of great young players - we are talking about the real world, and in the real world Roberto Luongo has come out and said in the media that it's time to move on and that the Canucks are now pretty openly talking about moving him.

The writing is on the wall, and the end of Roberto Luongo's tenure as a Canuck is near even if he does play here for another season or even two.

Quote:
and I can check my bias at the door when it comes to players I like and players I don't. I accept that we are built around playoff flake forwards.
I'll just take a moment and appreciate the humour of this.

That being said, since there are about ten or twenty forwards in the league who can fill a top six role without being described as "playoff flakes" by some then I can more or less agree with what you're saying for the sake of argument.

Quote:
I'm not suggesting a full blown rebuild, I'm suggesting working with what we have, and adding pieces that help this team win a cup.
Yeah that is what everyone is talking about. Those of us limiting the discussion to moving Roberto Luongo are simply acknowledging the reality of the situation.

Quote:
As such, we need to address our lousy offense. If Luongo comes back on fire and you can get an impact forward for Schneider then it makes sense to make that move to win a Cup.

If you don't make moves with the Stanley Cup in your mind, then what the hell are you doing?
Well putting your false dilemma ('either you're talking about moving Schneider instead of Luongo or you're talking about making moves that don't improve this team') aside, and to reiterate my previous point, most of us are acknowledging the reality of this situation.


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08-20-2012, 04:54 PM
  #98
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What about when said player has said he thinks its best to move on from this team?
Best to move on... but still pretty good to stay

There are 30 jobs available to Luongo - where he can continue working for his real nice contract... Out of those 30 jobs, where do you think the Vancouver job ranks in Luongo's eyes - given his career and family goals? Until very recently, #1? Now, top 5 job location? Top 10 job location? Just because Vancouver might not be #1 on his preferred job location list anymore, doesn't topologically imply that Vancouver is not on his radar to be a pretty damn good place to play for a while longer - until a just as good to better job location is there (one that needs him, is a cup contender, close to family, etc.)... Florida doesn't need Luongo? Well, Vancouver doesn't need him either... So, is it better to be with a team that doesn't need you and be closer to family (and farther away from the cup), or is it better to be with a team that doesn't need you to be closer to the cup (and farther away from family)? The perfect fit for him just isn't there right now... There's a 1/30 absolute best fit scenario for Luongo (3.3%) in a league of 30 teams... 1 team provides Luongo with the best fit possible to play in the NHL... The rest are bad to decent to good to great fits... When there is only 30 destinations, can't really be overly picky where you play... There's some great opportunities, for sure... but every place will probably have some warts... The best situation might never come - just the best situation out of what is currently available... Something will probably be missing - and perhaps something significant... Just from my armchair (and real quick, off the top of my head), I think there are maybe 4 or 5 "better than Vancouver" situations for Luongo than Vancouver right now... Approx. 17%. To me, about 83% of the league is a worst situation for Luongo than Vancouver... Maybe I'm wrong, maybe something like 60% of the league is a worst situation for him, in his eyes - which I guess is good news, if Luongo is providing a list of 12 "better situation teams" he'd prefer to play with than Vancouver... Until a trade is worked out that makes sense, I don't think Luongo pisses in too many pickles... I don't think Luongo wants to go to a worst situation than Vancouver - I think it will be "just-as-good" to "better" situation, otherwise, I think Luongo would prefer to stay... The goal isn't to just be a #1 goalie... The goal is to be a #1 goalie on a Stanley Cup contending team, close to family, on a team that needs a #1 franchise goaltender...

There's been no ill-will between the Canucks and Luongo... It's not a divorced couple living in the same house, kind of scenario... There's only a population of 30 job locations that Luongo can have (if he still wants to be on a NHL team)... Out of those 30 jobs, Vancouver must still be in the top 10 of his desired locations, IMO... I think Luongo can, and would, stay with Vancouver for a little while longer...

Better for all though, the sooner it's dealt with and put away... But, I don't think the "perfect fit" or even a "great fit" is there for him right now either... Little patience, I think, would be good for him as well - if the goal is to put himself in a just-as-good to better job environment than Vancouver... If Luongo just wants out though, I'm pretty sure that Gillis could trade Luongo to Columbus or some place in the league tomorrow...


Last edited by I in the Eye: 08-20-2012 at 05:03 PM.
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08-20-2012, 05:02 PM
  #99
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Best to move on... but still pretty good to stay
I guess I should have quoted the Luongo quote part.
What I meant was "Best to move on" from this team.

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08-20-2012, 06:56 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by dave babych returns View Post







To be a bit less glib about it - what's the point of bringing that up for the umpteenth time? The writing is on the wall, Luongo and the Canucks are moving on and that's what this discussion is about. Sure if he starts the season here and proceeds to massively outperforms Cory Schneider then he may end up in a Canucks jersey for longer than most anticipate but IMO it would simply be delaying the inevitable.
Slams head into wall but replies, ironic?

This thread is beyond predictable.

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