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2014 - Canada Roster Discussion (Part III)

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08-20-2012, 02:29 PM
  #301
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Kind of off topic, but if there's a lockout there should be a 7 game series with the Americans, a pre-olympic tune up. Never mind this nonsense of an exhibition series with KHL teams. I find that idea completely not interesting.
As do I. A 7-game tune-up series against the U.S. (ignoring the obvious difficulties dealing with the NHL and NHLPA in order to make this happen) would be great prep time and allow the players to develop some chemistry in advance of the OGs. I'd envision:

- Obligatory / mandatory participation in order to be considered for Sochi 2014 (i.e, it would be a try-out camp and series).

- Games held in the U.S. and Canada, with a bias towards hosting the games on international ice surfaces to the extent they're available.

- We'd invite something in the range of 18-20 forwards, 10-12 defencemen, and 3-4 goalies. So limited rosters (you'd want to give everyone at least a reasonable chance to prove themselves in game action), but allowing sufficient space for young up-and-comers on the bubble like the Benns, Halls, Skinners, Seguins, etc. Obviously you'd want the bubble guys to see more of the action, and have locks like Crosby et al to focus more on finding PP and ES chemistry with their linemates.

- You'd really get a chance to see which of the young guys are OG-ready against elite competition, and the short-list going into the 2013-2014 season would be developed from there (instead of wasting HC's time and resources on players who obviously wouldn't make the cut).

If only they'd make this happen....I'd wager we'd see bubble guys like Kane, Benn, Helm etc. put a huge effort in and really make a name for themselves.

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08-20-2012, 02:52 PM
  #302
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As do I. A 7-game tune-up series against the U.S. (ignoring the obvious difficulties dealing with the NHL and NHLPA in order to make this happen) would be great prep time and allow the players to develop some chemistry in advance of the OGs. I'd envision:

- Obligatory / mandatory participation in order to be considered for Sochi 2014 (i.e, it would be a try-out camp and series).

- Games held in the U.S. and Canada, with a bias towards hosting the games on international ice surfaces to the extent they're available.

- We'd invite something in the range of 18-20 forwards, 10-12 defencemen, and 3-4 goalies. So limited rosters (you'd want to give everyone at least a reasonable chance to prove themselves in game action), but allowing sufficient space for young up-and-comers on the bubble like the Benns, Halls, Skinners, Seguins, etc. Obviously you'd want the bubble guys to see more of the action, and have locks like Crosby et al to focus more on finding PP and ES chemistry with their linemates.

- You'd really get a chance to see which of the young guys are OG-ready against elite competition, and the short-list going into the 2013-2014 season would be developed from there (instead of wasting HC's time and resources on players who obviously wouldn't make the cut).

If only they'd make this happen....I'd wager we'd see bubble guys like Kane, Benn, Helm etc. put a huge effort in and really make a name for themselves.

It would be something to see and a lot more interesting than any European tour the NHLPA can come up with... but a series like that would be for keeps, I don't think the players would treat it as an exhibition series.

The only two hurdles would be insurance issues for the players and

finding international Olympic ice on both sides of the border. Calgary could serve the purpose, but would the Flames give permission to the NHLPA for a few games involving locked-out players? Probably not.

Interesting idea though.

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08-20-2012, 03:00 PM
  #303
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It would be something to see and a lot more interesting than any European tour the NHLPA can come up with... but a series like that would be for keeps, I don't think the players would treat it as an exhibition series.

The only two hurdles would be insurance issues for the players and

finding international Olympic ice on both sides of the border. Calgary could serve the purpose, but would the Flames give permission to the NHLPA for a few games involving locked-out players? Probably not.

Interesting idea though.
Oh, for sure. When Canada and U.S. get together, its never friendly. I can only think of Calgary and Salt Lake as potential hosts with international ice, though I'm sure there are more, maybe just not in opportune locations (ie, Lake Placid).

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08-20-2012, 03:35 PM
  #304
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It would be something to see and a lot more interesting than any European tour the NHLPA can come up with... but a series like that would be for keeps, I don't think the players would treat it as an exhibition series.

The only two hurdles would be insurance issues for the players and

finding international Olympic ice on both sides of the border. Calgary could serve the purpose, but would the Flames give permission to the NHLPA for a few games involving locked-out players? Probably not.

Interesting idea though.
If the idea doesn't take hold I guess we can always resort to picking our team based on +/- and Corsi / Relative Corsi, as the poster above suggested.


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08-20-2012, 05:34 PM
  #305
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No, no - Purcell over Giroux and Marchand over Richards up front makes a lot of sense, as does Garrison over Pietrangelo and Hamonic over Keith (not to mention the questionable selections of Subban and Hamhuis)
I actually don't think the selection of Hamhuis is terrible. He's a pretty smart defenseman and he's very consistent, if Canada HAD to have him on the team, I wouldn't be terribly worried about our chances.

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08-20-2012, 06:57 PM
  #306
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You really think he doesn't deserve to be a starter on any other team? You're logic makes no sense at all.
Really? No team wants to pay the cost for him but he's a top 30 goalie in the league?

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08-20-2012, 07:19 PM
  #307
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I actually don't think the selection of Hamhuis is terrible. He's a pretty smart defenseman and he's very consistent, if Canada HAD to have him on the team, I wouldn't be terribly worried about our chances.
I don't think he's a terrible selection either, honestly. I used the word questionable, which is more in light of the guys the poster left off. Hamhuis is pretty good, and he has the advantage of being a LHer which we're short on (only Keith is a lock as a LHer, the after that we're looking at Staal, Hamhuis, and MDZ). He'd be a decent bottom pairing guy for us, and like Robidas in 09 I could see him getting an invite to next summer's training camp.

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08-21-2012, 04:39 AM
  #308
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I don't think he's a terrible selection either, honestly. I used the word questionable, which is more in light of the guys the poster left off. Hamhuis is pretty good, and he has the advantage of being a LHer which we're short on (only Keith is a lock as a LHer, the after that we're looking at Staal, Hamhuis, and MDZ). He'd be a decent bottom pairing guy for us, and like Robidas in 09 I could see him getting an invite to next summer's training camp.
I think he gets an invite to summer camp as well. HC will throw out a wide net and bring in enough for two teams to run a couple of up-tempo intra-squad games. However with only 7 spots, his chances don't look good.

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08-21-2012, 08:41 PM
  #309
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I disagree with a large portion of this. Luongo is a choke artist and shouldn't be given the #1 Job in 2014. Lets look at his playoff performance in 2011.

Chicago series- Pretty shakey in this one at times. Pulled in games 4 and 5. Played a period of game 6. played solid in game 7.

Nashville series- He was way outdueled by Nashville's Pekka Rinne but he was solid. Please know that the Preds didn't have that great of an offence.

San Jose- Sharks are the biggest chokers in the entire league. It was a miracle that they got by The banged up Detroit Red Wings in round 2. He played well but sharks wern't much of a threat.

Cup Final- Just goes to show that he can't close the most important series and should be considered an ultimate choke artist. Ever hear the phrase "12 past luongo?" 12 goals on him in two games. In game 6, He let in 3 goals in 3 minutes and was pulled. Game 7 he let in 3 goals on 20 shots. Not good enough. Face it, He's a choker. I can't stress that enough.

To start 2012 with all that pressure to perform on him, He was once again shakey. It's an understatement to say that Luongo was bad. He played solid down the stretch that is until the pressure was put back on him in the playoffs. I'm sure you remember what happened to him in that series right? choke. choke. choke. choke. CHOKE.

I can argue that the 2010 Canadian team was one of the best teams ever assembled which obviously helped Luongo a lot. He played well against the Slovaks and again against the americans but mind you this was before the 2011 Playoffs where it pretty much started going down hill. He has choked in key moments ever since that gold. I don't trust him and neither does most of Canada. Luongo will probably be playing for Florida or Toronto in the future so his stats obviously won't be as good.

Also, We will have a 26 year old Carey Price. Price is already one of the best goaltenders in the league (Behind a few notable tendys of course) imagine him in two years. There is no doubt in my mind that If Carey Price shows up in the next two years and Luongo continues to be a choke artist, Good ol' C Price will lead Canada to Olympic Gold again.
Wait what? Did you even watch the Canucks/Kings opener? You know, when Vancouver's lack of discipline gave the Kings PP after PP, and if it wasn't for some fine Luongo saves the Canucks wouldn't even have had a chance?

Hockey Canada is loyal to veterans - Luongo will be on Team Canada 2014 barring a major drop in his play, and Price and Ward will be the other 2 goalies. The goalie who's the hottest going in to the Olympics will start.

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08-21-2012, 10:48 PM
  #310
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Wait what? Did you even watch the Canucks/Kings opener? You know, when Vancouver's lack of discipline gave the Kings PP after PP, and if it wasn't for some fine Luongo saves the Canucks wouldn't even have had a chance?

Hockey Canada is loyal to veterans - Luongo will be on Team Canada 2014 barring a major drop in his play, and Price and Ward will be the other 2 goalies. The goalie who's the hottest going in to the Olympics will start.
I disagree about Ward, honestly, the guy won a Stanley Cup, but so did Niemi, and I wouldn't call Niemi a great goalie. Not to mention Ward's cup was a long time ago, he hasn't been very good in a long while.

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08-22-2012, 04:26 PM
  #311
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I disagree about Ward, honestly, the guy won a Stanley Cup, but so did Niemi, and I wouldn't call Niemi a great goalie. Not to mention Ward's cup was a long time ago, he hasn't been very good in a long while.
Neimi wasn't a major part of his cup victory, Ward was. And are you kidding me about the last part? He's had his best seasons recently and if he played on a better defensive club he'd be a concensus top 5 goalie instead of just one people have to argue about.

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08-23-2012, 10:38 AM
  #312
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Neimi wasn't a major part of his cup victory, Ward was. And are you kidding me about the last part? He's had his best seasons recently and if he played on a better defensive club he'd be a concensus top 5 goalie instead of just one people have to argue about.
Ward's Conn Smythe was 6 years ago (it will be 8 when Sochi rolls around) and since then he's done nothing to establish himself as an elite goalie in the NHL, so the Cup and Conn Smythe are old news. IMO his CS was pretty weak anyway, and I'd put both Staal and Brind'Amour ahead of him in terms of their performance that playoff. To turn your argument around, Fleury should be on the team because he won a (more recent) Cup and was excellent in that playoff run as well.

Ward's numbers may look better if he played on a better team than Carolina, but the fact that Hockey Canada didn't select him at least as the 3rd stringer in 2010 doesn't bode well for his chances in 2014 in my view. He's probably behind Price, Luongo and Fleury already at this point, and Smith and Holtby will both probably pass him too if they have seasons like the last though I suspect one of them will come back down to earth. So he has some work to do, for sure. I'm hoping he can, because obviously we're lacking in terms of elite goaltending at the moment (its pretty bad when we're considering Mike Smith for an OG team).

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08-23-2012, 12:16 PM
  #313
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Ward's Conn Smythe was 6 years ago (it will be 8 when Sochi rolls around) and since then he's done nothing to establish himself as an elite goalie in the NHL, so the Cup and Conn Smythe are old news. IMO his CS was pretty weak anyway, and I'd put both Staal and Brind'Amour ahead of him in terms of their performance that playoff. To turn your argument around, Fleury should be on the team because he won a (more recent) Cup and was excellent in that playoff run as well.

Ward's numbers may look better if he played on a better team than Carolina, but the fact that Hockey Canada didn't select him at least as the 3rd stringer in 2010 doesn't bode well for his chances in 2014 in my view. He's probably behind Price, Luongo and Fleury already at this point, and Smith and Holtby will both probably pass him too if they have seasons like the last though I suspect one of them will come back down to earth. So he has some work to do, for sure. I'm hoping he can, because obviously we're lacking in terms of elite goaltending at the moment (its pretty bad when we're considering Mike Smith for an OG team).
At this point I'm really hoping Price really steps up and becomes TOP 3 in the league and Holtby continues to progress, because quite frankly I'm sick of the other names and have very little faith in any of them...

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08-23-2012, 01:55 PM
  #314
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Ward's Conn Smythe was 6 years ago (it will be 8 when Sochi rolls around) and since then he's done nothing to establish himself as an elite goalie in the NHL, so the Cup and Conn Smythe are old news. IMO his CS was pretty weak anyway, and I'd put both Staal and Brind'Amour ahead of him in terms of their performance that playoff. To turn your argument around, Fleury should be on the team because he won a (more recent) Cup and was excellent in that playoff run as well.

Ward's numbers may look better if he played on a better team than Carolina, but the fact that Hockey Canada didn't select him at least as the 3rd stringer in 2010 doesn't bode well for his chances in 2014 in my view. He's probably behind Price, Luongo and Fleury already at this point, and Smith and Holtby will both probably pass him too if they have seasons like the last though I suspect one of them will come back down to earth. So he has some work to do, for sure. I'm hoping he can, because obviously we're lacking in terms of elite goaltending at the moment (its pretty bad when we're considering Mike Smith for an OG team).
How was it weak? Carolina had no defense and he backstoped them with very good stats. It wasn't even controversy that he beat out Staal despite Staal's 28 points. On the second part, how is that turning my arguement around? Ward's been completely better than Fleury, who cares that Fleury has a more recent cup.

Ward's numbers may look better? They would definitely look better, and they'll already very good. It mean's absolutely nothing that he didn't make the 2010 team, Fleury was more established for Team Canada and let's be honest, the third stringer will never play a game.

I really think you know nothing about Cam Ward. You're acting like he's putting up crap stats on a crap team and doing nothing. He's putting up extremely good stats on one of the worst defenses in the league, he faces the most saves and he steals more games than any goalie in the league. Team Canada raved about him before this years WC, there is no way he is behind Price and Fleury. Luongo is the only one ahead of him currently.

Ward is a top 5 goalie in the league, he's currently Canada's best goalie, I don't know how you can say he's not elite.

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08-23-2012, 05:24 PM
  #315
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How was it weak? Carolina had no defense and he backstoped them with very good stats. It wasn't even controversy that he beat out Staal despite Staal's 28 points. On the second part, how is that turning my arguement around? Ward's been completely better than Fleury, who cares that Fleury has a more recent cup.

Ward's numbers may look better? They would definitely look better, and they'll already very good. It mean's absolutely nothing that he didn't make the 2010 team, Fleury was more established for Team Canada and let's be honest, the third stringer will never play a game.

I really think you know nothing about Cam Ward. You're acting like he's putting up crap stats on a crap team and doing nothing. He's putting up extremely good stats on one of the worst defenses in the league, he faces the most saves and he steals more games than any goalie in the league. Team Canada raved about him before this years WC, there is no way he is behind Price and Fleury. Luongo is the only one ahead of him currently.

Ward is a top 5 goalie in the league, he's currently Canada's best goalie, I don't know how you can say he's not elite.
I'd say that Carey Price is currently Canada's best goalie.

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08-24-2012, 09:29 AM
  #316
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Ward is a top 5 goalie in the league, he's currently Canada's best goalie, I don't know how you can say he's not elite.[/QUOTE]

No disrespect, but you are overrating Ward by saying this statement. When it mattered the most against Slovakia in this year's WHC back in May, Ward let in goals he should have kept out of the net. Throughout the tournament he was shaky at times, and did not look elite as you put it. I have no confidence in Ward for Sochi 2014. Hopefully Mike Smith and Holtby have great years next year to give me some confidence in Canada's goaltending. Hopefully a change of scenery for Luongo will revitalize him as well. There is a lot of "hopefully" in my words, since goaltending will be the weak link of this team. Luongo was shaky back in 2010, but did enough for Canada to win gold, including an unbelievable stop on Demitra (R.I.P.) against Slovakia in the Semi-finals. Thankfully Crosby scored in Overtime. If not, the game would have gone to a shootout, and I liked Team USA's chances more with Ryan Miller in goal opposed to Luongo to win that game.

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08-25-2012, 01:04 AM
  #317
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At this point I'm really hoping Price really steps up and becomes TOP 3 in the league and Holtby continues to progress, because quite frankly I'm sick of the other names and have very little faith in any of them...
This.

I don't share your Holtby faith...not one little bit.

If Price isn't totally ready to go then we just have to go with Luongo again - with Fleury after Luongo.

I'm sorry...but when it comes to goal tending it is what it is. Even if Price steps up big time, we're still not winning it in goal...I'm sorry, we're simply not. I'm somewhat concerned that if Fatso is still around Yzerman goes full f**ktard on us and brings him along as the third or (even worse) second goalie.

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08-25-2012, 03:01 AM
  #318
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This.

I don't share your Holtby faith...not one little bit.

If Price isn't totally ready to go then we just have to go with Luongo again - with Fleury after Luongo.

I'm sorry...but when it comes to goal tending it is what it is. Even if Price steps up big time, we're still not winning it in goal...I'm sorry, we're simply not. I'm somewhat concerned that if Fatso is still around Yzerman goes full f**ktard on us and brings him along as the third or (even worse) second goalie.
You are right re: not winning it with great goaltending. But Price (and I'm by no means a Habs fan pushing for my guy) but if Price doesn't start proving something like PO series wins, then going into sochi, there's not 1 Canadian goaltender, not one I will have the slightest bit of confidence in. Not Lou, Not Ward, not MAF. the phili series was just a debacle. I've seen novice goalies more capable than MAF's display last spring...


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08-25-2012, 03:45 AM
  #319
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You are right re: not winning it with great goaltending. But Price (and I'm by no means a Habs fan pushing for my guy) but if Price doesn't start proving something like PO series wins, then going into sochi, there's not 1 Canadian goaltender, not one I will have the slightest bit of confidence in. Not Lou, Not Ward, not MAF. the phili series was just a debacle. I've seen novice goalies more capable than MAF's display last spring...
yes...but be that as it may we have to start with someone in the net - unless you're contemplating we constantly play with a six men on/empty net scenario which, as elite as our offensive is, might be a little risky.

i'm hoping Price looks like our #1 guy...but guess what? even if he doesn't he still might be our #1 guy (simply by process of elimination).

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08-25-2012, 04:01 AM
  #320
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yes...but be that as it may we have to start with someone in the net - unless you're contemplating we constantly play with a six men on/empty net scenario which, as elite as our offensive is, might be a little risky.

i'm hoping Price looks like our #1 guy...but guess what? even if he doesn't he still might be our #1 guy (simply by process of elimination).
It's time for Price to put up or shut up now anyway...and if there's a season or not, Price better be on the plane to Europe in the spring to play at the WHC. (I very much doubt that if there is a season, Montreal is any real threat to be a strong playoff team.) So, get off your a$$ and go play.

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08-25-2012, 08:35 AM
  #321
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I agree, if he is serious about improving he should have no problem playing in Europe if there is a lockout. It's good training for the big ice and will help him get accustomed to the European crowds where you need to know how to mentally handle feminine whistling and crowds that sing songs while beating on Buffalo drums.

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It's time for Price to put up or shut up now anyway...and if there's a season or not, Price better be on the plane to Europe in the spring to play at the WHC. (I very much doubt that if there is a season, Montreal is any real threat to be a strong playoff team.) So, get off your a$$ and go play.

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08-25-2012, 09:42 AM
  #322
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Ward is a top 5 goalie in the league, he's currently Canada's best goalie, I don't know how you can say he's not elite.
Ward is most certainly not a top 5 goalie, I would say he's not even a top 5 Canadian goalie, and lots of people would suggest that there are no Canadians in the top 5.

If Ward is our best option, I would be happy getting through the quarters, but expect no better than 4th.

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08-25-2012, 09:48 AM
  #323
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Price is our best option in net at the moment.

This year and next will be big years for him...................and us.


We need him to round into world class form.

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08-25-2012, 12:04 PM
  #324
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anyone know why Price wasn't at the WC this year?

I agree Montreal doesn't look like a playoff team - it looks more like a draft lottery team, actually...and people are right that Price better be at the WCs next year if Montreal isn't in post-season.

It's important we win in Sochi. Winning in front of a Russian audience would be very satisfying.

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08-25-2012, 01:32 PM
  #325
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anyone know why Price wasn't at the WC this year?
Injury.

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