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Van/Chi then Van/Was

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Old
08-20-2012, 05:40 AM
  #51
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Luongo is heavily undervalued in the playoffs. He's a great goalie. He makes great saves and he's forced to do it more often than other goalies. In the regular season Vancouver's d-men are studs and in the playoffs they're duds.

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Old
08-20-2012, 03:18 PM
  #52
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Chicago is the only team that improves in this deal.

The problem is, they bring in 10 million in salary.

Makes no sense for any teams.

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Old
08-20-2012, 03:36 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi Trollinen View Post
Luongo is a star, no doubt, but that contract is hideous, if and when he does get moved I highly doubt it'll be for as much as people think it will.

Also, I fixed the bold parts for you
You don't have any inside info on that, thus making your claim worth a grain of salt.

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Old
08-20-2012, 03:38 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by medhatcanuck View Post
People know Ballards cap hit is 4.2 right?
That's about 400-600,000 overpaid. Based on his play so far. Honestly if be was paid 3.75 no one would complain and everyone would say he serves his purpose.

It seems like people think be has an atrocious contract.
Is he overpaid? Yes, but not by a large margin.

Also why would Ballard be a cap dump? He's still a puck carrying dman who at times plays like a 3/4 guy but some nights at worst he's a number 5 who has one giveaway.
This! It bugs me how people can't realize this haha. Personally, I think he's about 1mil overpaid for what he brings to the table. If he were under contract for 3.2mil he'd be an ideal defenseman for us. People are acting like Ballard's cap hit is the plague, when if he hit free agency next summer he'd likely get a contract at around 3.2mil. Since the Canucks have many players on discount contracts, we can easily afford to carry an extra million to keep Ballard around for depth. He isn't a cap dump, and if hes being treated as one why don't we just keep him?

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Old
08-20-2012, 04:08 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
You don't have any inside info on that, thus making your claim worth a grain of salt.
Call it an educated guess then. A contract with a NTC that takes a goalie who's already 33 to his 43rd birthday and at the cap hit//real dollars it pays him is going to be hard to move even for the best GM.

I'm just saying Van will probably have to make a concession of sorts or take a salary dump//bad contract back the other way.

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Old
08-20-2012, 04:25 PM
  #56
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The only way this works for the Canucks is if they're going to turn around and trade three firsts for Corey Perry or something of that nature.

The deal in and of itself is not really all that desireable.

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08-20-2012, 04:30 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by dave babych returns View Post
The only way this works for the Canucks is if they're going to turn around and trade three firsts for Corey Perry or something of that nature.

The deal in and of itself is not really all that desireable.

Make it a 4-way.

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Old
08-20-2012, 05:21 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
You don't have any inside info on that, thus making your claim worth a grain of salt.
You also have no inside information on that, thus making your doubts worth a grain of salt.

Hell, this entire site is made up almost entirely of people without inside info. You might as well stop reading it if that's something you're really looking for here.

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Old
08-20-2012, 05:37 PM
  #59
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i am not sure why the caps do that. is crawford really better than neuvirth?

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Old
08-21-2012, 12:12 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Sevanston View Post
You also have no inside information on that, thus making your doubts worth a grain of salt.

Hell, this entire site is made up almost entirely of people without inside info. You might as well stop reading it if that's something you're really looking for here.
Use the ignore button. Works like a charm.

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Old
08-21-2012, 12:24 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Valuewise it seems fair, it just doesn't make sense from any of the team's perspectives.

Also, FYI, Luongo's playoff save percentage is 20th all time, just EDIT three spots below Lundqvist, and one above Rinne.
When he is on he is fantastic, best in the league IMO.

Unfortunately, in almost every single playoff series he has lost, he was not been good. Not at all.

Boston .891 3.41
Chicago 2 .897 3.52
Chicago 1 .879 3.51
Anaheim .930 2.31

The Boston series shows exactly what I'm talking about. He was amazing in 3 games.

he was a big part of the losses in the other 4.

You also have games like the 7-5 loss to Chicago. Team scores him 5 goals, comes back in the third. He simply can't get it done.

Luongo is just unreliable come playoff time. The Canucks have another option in Schneider. If they didn't then absolutely keep Luongo, he is capable of winning a conn smythe if he can ever get it together.

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08-21-2012, 12:25 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by xX Hot Fuss View Post
FYI Luongo has been PULLED from
PLAYOFF games about 4 times in the past 3 years.

Chicago needs a playoff goalie, not one of carries us into a #2 seed
how many more where he should have been pulled? game 3 vs Boston. Game 6 vs Chicago. a couple others?

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08-21-2012, 12:27 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medhatcanuck View Post
People know Ballards cap hit is 4.2 right?
That's about 400-600,000 overpaid. Based on his play so far. Honestly if be was paid 3.75 no one would complain and everyone would say he serves his purpose.

It seems like people think be has an atrocious contract.
Is he overpaid? Yes, but not by a large margin.

Also why would Ballard be a cap dump? He's still a puck carrying dman who at times plays like a 3/4 guy but some nights at worst he's a number 5 who has one giveaway.
No, Ballard is overpaid by a larger amount than that based on his play the last couple of seasons.

I blame AV for much of that. Honestly think he completely misused Ballard and gave up on him too quickly. Healthy scratch after a handful of games and pretty much stuck behind AV's favorite (Rome) for 2 seasons.

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Old
08-21-2012, 12:29 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Maybe you missed the part where I said I wouldn't give anything of value for Luongo?
does Crawford and a late first really have any signifigant value at this point?

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08-21-2012, 12:31 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by serge2k View Post
When he is on he is fantastic, best in the league IMO.

Unfortunately, in almost every single playoff series he has lost, he was not been good. Not at all.

Boston .891 3.41
Chicago 2 .897 3.52
Chicago 1 .879 3.51
Anaheim .930 2.31

The Boston series shows exactly what I'm talking about. He was amazing in 3 games.

he was a big part of the losses in the other 4.

You also have games like the 7-5 loss to Chicago. Team scores him 5 goals, comes back in the third. He simply can't get it done.

Luongo is just unreliable come playoff time. The Canucks have another option in Schneider. If they didn't then absolutely keep Luongo, he is capable of winning a conn smythe if he can ever get it together.
How was Lundqvist during the Devil's series? Or Elliot against the kings? Bryzgalov and Fleury both did terribly against each other.

All goalies have bad series. It's not something unique to Luongo.

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Old
08-21-2012, 12:35 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by serge2k View Post
does Crawford and a late first really have any signifigant value at this point?
Crawford no, the first yes. Considering what we ended with our 1st this year I would not risk trading the first for a player who would improve us in the regular season but also be an enigma in the playoffs. Lets not forget its not just Crawford and a first, we are also including Hammer.

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Old
08-21-2012, 01:51 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Intense Rage View Post
Crawford no, the first yes. Considering what we ended with our 1st this year I would not risk trading the first for a player who would improve us in the regular season but also be an enigma in the playoffs. Lets not forget its not just Crawford and a first, we are also including Hammer.
I have to ask since you root for the Hawks.
Doesn't the fact that you have a Conn Smythe top line center kind of negate the fact that you'd also need a Conn Smythe quality tender who get you back to where you were?

I know Lu isn't the end all of great goalies, but he'd be the best you've had since Khabby found that extra gear the one year and still couldn't get past Detroit.
I think a quality tender like Lu who yes does have faults, but behind a Conn Smythe center, a Norris Dman and his close to Norris partner in crime also on D along with 2 other world class offensive forwards like Kane and Hossa. Just seems your team would be head and shoulders above the rest of the league IMHO.

Pitts doesn't have 2 Norris quality Dman, Philly has none. Rangers dont have 2 Norris quality Dmen either, but the Conn Smythe center yes. SJS doesn't have any of that, LAK could make a claim yes but they won on one of the best Cup runs ever. Not even Vancouver has those things.

It seems Chicago fans become blind due to a couple of bad games and a shotty contract to the idea of them being tweener/pretenders as opposed to stand out contenders. With a quality stopper like Lu the Hawks would most likely be able to score 5 a game because everyone would be playing to potential offensively since they know they'd get 92% of the saves from the Goalie.

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08-21-2012, 02:04 AM
  #68
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I don't blame Blackhawks fans for underestimating Luongo forever more, just like I'll never see Jon Quick as a truly elite goaltender after watching him fall apart in 2010 when his defense stopped bailing him out over a couple of games.

It doesn't make them (or me) right, but..

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Old
08-21-2012, 05:33 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by mstad101 View Post
It seems Chicago fans become blind due to a couple of bad games and a shotty contract to the idea of them being tweener/pretenders as opposed to stand out contenders. With a quality stopper like Lu the Hawks would most likely be able to score 5 a game because everyone would be playing to potential offensively since they know they'd get 92% of the saves from the Goalie.
for, the problem isn't Luongo or his contract. It's the asking price. Gillis has a high asking price from the reports we heard... fans have even more stupid expectations.


1. You wouldn't get anything of real value
2. You wouldn't get a roster player we could use
3. You would have to take on a contract we don't want anymore (Olesz, Montador or Frolik)
4. You would have to take on Craw or Emery
5. No Top prospect or 1st next year
6. We don't take on garbage like Ballard. This guy isn't even worth 3 million, let alone the money he gets.

would you do this?
Olesz/Frolik + Crawford + mid prospect like D Justin Holl for Luongo??

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Old
08-21-2012, 06:05 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by mstad101 View Post
I have to ask since you root for the Hawks.
Doesn't the fact that you have a Conn Smythe top line center kind of negate the fact that you'd also need a Conn Smythe quality tender who get you back to where you were?

I know Lu isn't the end all of great goalies, but he'd be the best you've had since Khabby found that extra gear the one year and still couldn't get past Detroit.
I think a quality tender like Lu who yes does have faults, but behind a Conn Smythe center, a Norris Dman and his close to Norris partner in crime also on D along with 2 other world class offensive forwards like Kane and Hossa. Just seems your team would be head and shoulders above the rest of the league IMHO.

Pitts doesn't have 2 Norris quality Dman, Philly has none. Rangers dont have 2 Norris quality Dmen either, but the Conn Smythe center yes. SJS doesn't have any of that, LAK could make a claim yes but they won on one of the best Cup runs ever. Not even Vancouver has those things.

It seems Chicago fans become blind due to a couple of bad games and a shotty contract to the idea of them being tweener/pretenders as opposed to stand out contenders. With a quality stopper like Lu the Hawks would most likely be able to score 5 a game because everyone would be playing to potential offensively since they know they'd get 92% of the saves from the Goalie.
Luckily for Chicago, Gillis is lazy and wouldn't use that extra $6M in cap space to upgrade his roster or anything. It's not like there's some major threats coming up as UFAs and could be playoff rentals... cause then they'd be really screwed huh?

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Old
08-21-2012, 06:41 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
for, the problem isn't Luongo or his contract. It's the asking price. Gillis has a high asking price from the reports we heard... fans have even more stupid expectations.


1. You wouldn't get anything of real value
2. You wouldn't get a roster player we could use
3. You would have to take on a contract we don't want anymore (Olesz, Montador or Frolik)
4. You would have to take on Craw or Emery
5. No Top prospect or 1st next year
6. We don't take on garbage like Ballard. This guy isn't even worth 3 million, let alone the money he gets.

would you do this?
Olesz/Frolik + Crawford + mid prospect like D Justin Holl for Luongo??
If you put stock into "reports we heard" - and the fact that your entire post is based around them suggests that you do - then your list is totally off base. Unless Dave Bolland has no real value, can't be used by the Blackhawks and is signed to an unmanageable contract they need to unload.

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Old
08-21-2012, 08:24 AM
  #72
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Chicago says no way in the first one and Vancouver says no way to the second. Vancouver acquires a good backup for Schneider and a solid D-Man (who I think is an upgrade over Ballard) and then immediately trades them for downgrades??? I don't think so.

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08-21-2012, 08:28 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
for, the problem isn't Luongo or his contract. It's the asking price. Gillis has a high asking price from the reports we heard... fans have even more stupid expectations.


1. You wouldn't get anything of real value
2. You wouldn't get a roster player we could use
3. You would have to take on a contract we don't want anymore (Olesz, Montador or Frolik)
4. You would have to take on Craw or Emery
5. No Top prospect or 1st next year
6. We don't take on garbage like Ballard. This guy isn't even worth 3 million, let alone the money he gets.

would you do this?
Olesz/Frolik + Crawford + mid prospect like D Justin Holl for Luongo??
Well, seeing as Burke allegedly offered Schenn for Luongo straight up at the draft(but when Gillis said he wanted more, was flipped for JVR), obviously there are GMs in the league who do feel he has value. Whether Bowman is one of them is open to debate.

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Old
08-21-2012, 08:35 AM
  #74
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How was Lundqvist during the Devil's series? Or Elliot against the kings? Bryzgalov and Fleury both did terribly against each other.

All goalies have bad series. It's not something unique to Luongo.
Agreed. But Luongo does seem like an emotional goalie, and he does seem more prone to be thrown off his game. I think he's fully capable of winning a cup and a Conn Smythe, he almost pulled it off a couple of years ago. The thing is, coaching has lost faith in him, and we happen to have another goalie who is younger, cheaper, and seems to play better when it counts. Most other teams don't have this option, so I guess that's the difference.

I'd be perfectly content keeping Luongo in net if Schneider wasn't around, I believe fully he can get it done. But if I had to chose between the two, I take Schneider right now. Luongo seems to have simply run his course here.

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Old
08-21-2012, 09:25 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by serge2k View Post
does Crawford and a late first really have any signifigant value at this point?
More value than Luongo.

Value = 1st round pick, top prospect, solid NHL player signed to decent contract

What I would give up for Luongo = 2nd rd pick or later, mid range prospect, cap dump.

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