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Roster Thoughts and Offseason Speculation for the 2012-2013 Season III

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Old
08-20-2012, 01:40 PM
  #151
tigermask48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Anaheim - Staubitz, Souray, Allen (even if Staubiz doesn't play Souray can fight anyone)
San Jose - Clowe, Winchester, Murray, McLaren (even if McLaren doesn't play Clowe can fight anyone)
Minnesota - Clutterbuck, Stoner, Kassian, Kenopka (even if Kassian doesn't play Kenopka can fight anyone)
King can hold his own against most of the bolded names in my eyes, even CLifford, Richards, Greene etc would be decent matchups against some. I think Westgarth sticks around just for a few games, but I see no problem with what the Kings currently have. I don't how ever care about guys losing fights. I mean it's not like you score points by winning fights, sure its' nice to have the boost at times, but who really cares honestly? I mean when it comes to truly big boys you just decline the fight and move on. You cannot let your opponent dictate lineups and matchups. Having the option is great and putting Westgarth in against a smaller skill team is enticing, but dressing an enforcer just because the team your playing dresses one is well, just dumb.

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08-20-2012, 02:13 PM
  #152
Johnny Utah
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Dwight King? I think a lot of posters over rate King as a tough guy. He isn't one. He was forced to fight Crombeen after backing down the game before. King has 19 total fights since 2005, his first year in juniors. He is not a fighter, he fights only if he has to.

I would predict 3-4 fights of his this year from him. He's not a bad fighter, he just doesn't do it much.

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08-20-2012, 02:31 PM
  #153
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Where do you draw the line on players who can't play hockey but get a roster spot anyway for something else?

Maybe im being ignorant, but i don't see why you would possibly want to dress someone who doesn't help you win hockey games, in a hockey game. It is as simple as that

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08-20-2012, 02:44 PM
  #154
Ziggy Stardust
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I'm comfortable with the Kings going with Nolan and Clifford handling the rough stuff. The Kings physically dominated their opponents throughout the playoffs without the need of Kevin Westgarth.

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08-20-2012, 02:55 PM
  #155
Johnny Utah
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Yes, but teams also don't play their tough guys much during the playoffs. Bissonette did get a game or two and Kassian played through out the Vancouver series, same with Bitz....

I honestly don't think Clifford and Nolan are enough to handle the Rangers, Sabres, Wild, Ducks, Sharks, Bruins, Oilers and Islanders. All those teams are tough or toughened up.

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08-20-2012, 03:29 PM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Yes, but teams also don't play their tough guys much during the playoffs. Bissonette did get a game or two and Kassian played through out the Vancouver series, same with Bitz....

I honestly don't think Clifford and Nolan are enough to handle the Rangers, Sabres, Wild, Ducks, Sharks, Bruins, Oilers and Islanders. All those teams are tough or toughened up.
The most winning franchise for the past two decades - the Red Wing don't employee an enforcer.
And out of all the teams you mentioned only ONE won the cup since the last lockout - the Bruins. And I remember seeing Clifford in a fight with Shawn Thornton and the kid did just fine.
I really don't think the Kings need to dress someone to fight pylons like Scott or McGrattan who outside of a 10 seconds long staged fight contribute to game only via obstruction penalties.

Not to mention the King ice one of the biggest lineups in the NHL.

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08-20-2012, 03:38 PM
  #157
Chazz Reinhold
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
That's exactly the case, the Kings rarely run anyone. They are mostly always on the defensive. When do we instigate?

Sutter has had Godard, Ivanans, Jackman, and McGrattan in the past and all of a sudden everything thinks he will just let Nolan/Clifford do that job. Lol.
Here's the point that you and ninety nine keep purposely ignoring: The Kings DO NOT HAVE TO dress a heavyweight just because the other team does. I think my example of the Blackhawks game in which they dressed Scott but the Kings didn't dress Westgarth is a perfect microcosm for why you don't dress a heavy just because the other team does.

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08-20-2012, 03:55 PM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
I think one major problem is that if you have Westgarth out, the Kings don't have anyone close to full filling that role.

Nolan couldn't even hang in there with Ben Eager. Clifford got demolished by Reaves and Brookbank. All three of those players are still in the Western Conference.
And what role is that?

Look, I'm not anti-fighting. I'm anti-"all I do is stage fights with the other useless heavies."

Westgarth has no game other than fighting similar no-talent heavyweights.

If Westgarth doesn't play, Reaves and Brookbank won't either. Simple as that.

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08-20-2012, 03:58 PM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigermask48 View Post
King can hold his own against most of the bolded names in my eyes, even CLifford, Richards, Greene etc would be decent matchups against some. I think Westgarth sticks around just for a few games, but I see no problem with what the Kings currently have. I don't how ever care about guys losing fights. I mean it's not like you score points by winning fights, sure its' nice to have the boost at times, but who really cares honestly? I mean when it comes to truly big boys you just decline the fight and move on. You cannot let your opponent dictate lineups and matchups. Having the option is great and putting Westgarth in against a smaller skill team is enticing, but dressing an enforcer just because the team your playing dresses one is well, just dumb.
King is not a fighter. Certainly not vs the heavyweights.

I agree with everything else you said though.

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08-20-2012, 03:59 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Yes, but teams also don't play their tough guys much during the playoffs. Bissonette did get a game or two and Kassian played through out the Vancouver series, same with Bitz....
Man, those were some great fights they had in the playoffs.

Oh wait.


The same concept applies in the regular season. If there's no one to fight them, they are rendered useless.

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08-20-2012, 04:01 PM
  #161
Ollie Weeks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
Here's the point that you and ninety nine keep purposely ignoring: The Kings DO NOT HAVE TO dress a heavyweight just because the other team does.I think my example of the Blackhawks game in which they dressed Scott but the Kings didn't dress Westgarth is a perfect microcosm for why you don't dress a heavy just because the other team does.
This needs to be a chant.

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08-20-2012, 04:21 PM
  #162
Sydor25
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Scratch Hartnell off the 2013 UFA list. Just signed a 6-year deal with the Flyers.

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08-20-2012, 04:38 PM
  #163
Ziggy Stardust
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This needs to be a chant.
Call up Ryan Flinn!

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08-20-2012, 05:16 PM
  #164
Johnny Utah
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I think Ryan Flinn is a firefighter now.

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08-20-2012, 05:24 PM
  #165
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Scratch Hartnell off the 2013 UFA list. Just signed a 6-year deal with the Flyers.
LOL - that's stupid money for that clown

LOL @ Flyers

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Old
08-20-2012, 05:25 PM
  #166
Johnny Utah
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Dude has cracked the 30 goal mark 2x as a Flyer....the deal is bad not because of the money but because it will pay him 4.75 until he is 36-37 years old.

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08-20-2012, 06:25 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Dude has cracked the 30 goal mark 2x as a Flyer....the deal is bad not because of the money but because it will pay him 4.75 until he is 36-37 years old.
and his numbers are inflated by the no-D pond hockey the Flyers play...

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08-20-2012, 07:12 PM
  #168
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Not a Hartnell fan, and happy he is off the market, this guys fits the mold of the overrated Western Canadian "Character Forward" the Kings love to overpay for.

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08-20-2012, 08:06 PM
  #169
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Seems like the media is not making a big deal out of the potential lockout. This problem isn't even getting half of the attention that the NBA had last season. But one difference I've noticed is that teams are signing and trading players despite the current negotiations between the PA and the league, unlike the NBA last season when players couldn't sign. Can NHL players use the training facilities right now?

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08-20-2012, 10:24 PM
  #170
Jason Lewis
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Another pond hockey inflation contract.

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08-21-2012, 01:39 AM
  #171
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After watching Mike Richards NHL 36 again tonight, it helped me decide on the whole Westgarth situation. The game against Phoenix on Feb 16th was a fight filled 1st period, with Hanzal taking a run at Richards, Smith going after Kopitar and Torres taking a run at Fraser. I noticed during the 1st intermission of NHL 36 Westgarth was dressed and in the locker room, he played a total of 3:47. Whats the point of dressing him as a deterrent when other teams will still take runs and hit our players.

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08-21-2012, 06:35 AM
  #172
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Not a Hartnell fan, and happy he is off the market, this guys fits the mold of the overrated Western Canadian "Character Forward" the Kings love to overpay for.
I don't see him as remotely over-rated. He didn't just have a lot of points last season but was the only guy who could play defense when he was with Briere and Leino the prior season and in the 2010 playoff run, and he's the only guy playing defence with Giroux and Jagr. The contract is quite fair, $4.75 is less money for long term and with a full NMC - he currently has a NTC - so they're paying him a lot over time. He could have easily signed for over $5 million after the current contract.

On both the Leino/Briere/Hartnell and Jagr/Giroux/Hartnell lines he was the one that wasn't as noticeable because his linemates had the flair and the fancy goals. He works the boards, fights and plays both ends of the rink. None of his linemates had 2 way games.

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08-21-2012, 06:41 AM
  #173
MsWoof
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Originally Posted by Grillinnap View Post
Seems like the media is not making a big deal out of the potential lockout. This problem isn't even getting half of the attention that the NBA had last season. But one difference I've noticed is that teams are signing and trading players despite the current negotiations between the PA and the league, unlike the NBA last season when players couldn't sign. Can NHL players use the training facilities right now?
Most hockey media guys are on holidays in July and August. Once Labour Day rolls around and life gets back to normal, they will be all over it.


Last edited by MsWoof: 08-21-2012 at 08:14 AM.
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08-21-2012, 07:43 AM
  #174
tigermask48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Dwight King? I think a lot of posters over rate King as a tough guy. He isn't one. He was forced to fight Crombeen after backing down the game before. King has 19 total fights since 2005, his first year in juniors. He is not a fighter, he fights only if he has to.

I would predict 3-4 fights of his this year from him. He's not a bad fighter, he just doesn't do it much.
But still you add him to the list of Greene, Mitchell, Richards, Clifford, Fraser, and Nolan who are all guys that fight when they have to and the only issue becomes fighting the big heavyweight enforcers in staged fights. Which as I pointed out in my previous post, (and is somethig you still won't acknowledge) the Kings don't need to dress an enforcer everynight and can't be locked into having their opponent dictate matchups. Westgarth is nice to have around as an option if needed, but teams do fine for themselves without enforcers too. Westie played 25 games this past year and had I think a grand total of 3 fights, that's not a lot of "enforcing..."

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Old
08-21-2012, 08:04 AM
  #175
Buddy The Elf
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So does anyone have any faith that there will be no work stoppage at all? Seems like most of you guys are rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

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