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08-20-2012, 07:14 PM
  #101
billvanseattle
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I am one of the optomists who think the situation is just fine ... wait until something of value pops up for Luongo, and there is no rush, since I doubt there will be hockey before christmas ...

We are a favored team to win the division, a good shot at the conference, so why is there any worry if we have Luongo until the trade deadline. If Schneids craps the bed or gets injured, we will be bloody happy we have Luongo - though Lack may be a tad pissed.

Once Kes comes back ... which really looks like it will be before the season starts in Dec ...

Sedins Burrows
Booth Kes Higgins
Jensen Schroeder Kassian
(I really think a 3rd line of speed youth and vigor getting slightly softer minutes could really excel this year, yes I know thats 2 RW's)
Raymond Lapierre Hansen

with the idea that at some point before the trade deadline we move Luongo for a important piece ....

Or

Sedins burrows
Booth Kesler Kassian
Hansen Schroeder Jensen (I also think this line could excel)
Higgins Lapierre Raymond

Lets face it Kassian could be 2nd, 3rd or 4th line material; we have no idea what this year, and Higgins Hansen and Raymond are all 2nd 3rd line tweeners, assuming Raymond comes back a bit this year (if not, he is gone after this year). But we have at least 15 legit forwards fighting for 12 spots, since Maholtra, Weise, Volpati and Ebbett should be included ....

We have a ton of depth, yes it would be nice to get an upgrade on the top 6 but we can wait months to do that.

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Old
08-20-2012, 08:40 PM
  #102
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Just got to get to the playoffs, and "anything can happen". Teams that need a #1 goalie, are saying just that. There may only be a handful of places where Luongo would currently fit, but Luongo is a goalie that has proven to be one of the best #1's in the regular season. Why couldn't "anything happen" for a team with Luongo? I don't get it. Mike Leighton nearly won the cup, for.... Pete's sake!

I'm completely with Gillis on this one: if teams will only offer semi-scrubs and cap-dumps for Luongo, then let them stew in their own mess until they come crawling back with an actual hockey deal. I don't expect the world, but a top prospect, or a fairly high-quality NHLer, or top 10 draft pick is a must.

Only those who don't fully understand how his contract works, say it is too long. When he retires, he retires with no future cap-hit. Until then, he will be a starting goalie and completely worth his cap-hit. Pretty damn simple.

There is only 2 questions about Luongo: Would he screw-over his new team (down the road) and play out his full contract if he can't perform anymore, as a pricey back-up or AHLer? and ... How will Luongo/Schneider/Canucks deal with things if they can't reach a deal by the time the next season starts. The answer to the 1st question is pretty obvious, and I don't think the 2nd question "drops" Luongo's value (maybe a smidge or two, but not massively). Teams percieve that they might be able to out-wait Van, but that is a dangerous game to play, as Van is very likely to make the playoffs either way, while the team in need of a #1.... not so much. Van has the valuable asset that is in a position that is in a denial-demand. Inerested teams see Luongo's value, and want him. They say his contract is too big/long - that is their nearly-exclusive means of de-valuing him.... but don't be fooled, it's complete garbage: You either want him and his contract, or don't want him at all. There is none of this " I don't want him because of his contract, but I'll take him if I can get him for cheap" garbage. They would still be paying the same contract!

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08-20-2012, 08:43 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Monkey Boy View Post
Why has there been such an influx of Huberdeau lately? Isn't the concensus that Tallon won't even give up Bjustad? Huberdeau is higher up than Bjustad, surely.

Just speculation. The whole Bjugstad rumor stemmed from a random USA Today writer. He didn't know asking price, but he just 'happened' to know a name. It's a made up rumor IMO. Canucks camp haven't leaked any info, and Panthers would never leak one of their guys name - bad for business.

Canucks have a need at centre, that's where both Huber and Jugs came from. Just speculation.

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08-20-2012, 08:49 PM
  #104
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You guys really think Luongo is internally happy about this situation?

Him saying "it's time to move on" publicly to me means that privately he thinks "get me the ******* out of here by the time the season starts"

Schneider is probably gonna come out hot, giving little reason to play Luongo consistently.

how will he even play as a backup for the first while? I cant see him being really into it.

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08-20-2012, 09:02 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by ProspectProphet View Post
Just got to get to the playoffs, and "anything can happen". Teams that need a #1 goalie, are saying just that. There may only be a handful of places where Luongo would currently fit, but Luongo is a goalie that has proven to be one of the best #1's in the regular season. Why couldn't "anything happen" for a team with Luongo? I don't get it. Mike Leighton nearly won the cup, for.... Pete's sake!

I'm completely with Gillis on this one: if teams will only offer semi-scrubs and cap-dumps for Luongo, then let them stew in their own mess until they come crawling back with an actual hockey deal. I don't expect the world, but a top prospect, or a fairly high-quality NHLer, or top 10 draft pick is a must.

Only those who don't fully understand how his contract works, say it is too long. When he retires, he retires with no future cap-hit. Until then, he will be a starting goalie and completely worth his cap-hit. Pretty damn simple.

There is only 2 questions about Luongo: Would he screw-over his new team (down the road) and play out his full contract if he can't perform anymore, as a pricey back-up or AHLer? and ... How will Luongo/Schneider/Canucks deal with things if they can't reach a deal by the time the next season starts. The answer to the 1st question is pretty obvious, and I don't think the 2nd question "drops" Luongo's value (maybe a smidge or two, but not massively). Teams percieve that they might be able to out-wait Van, but that is a dangerous game to play, as Van is very likely to make the playoffs either way, while the team in need of a #1.... not so much. Van has the valuable asset that is in a position that is in a denial-demand. Inerested teams see Luongo's value, and want him. They say his contract is too big/long - that is their nearly-exclusive means of de-valuing him.... but don't be fooled, it's complete garbage: You either want him and his contract, or don't want him at all. There is none of this " I don't want him because of his contract, but I'll take him if I can get him for cheap" garbage. They would still be paying the same contract!

His contract is bad due to injury concerns, not the long-term kind of but the J.S Giguere, Vokoun kind. Where when he hits his mid-30's and he's out for 10-20 games due to a groin injury and possibly becomes injury prone. Then you're stuck with him and cant trade him but he still only plays 40-50 games a year. Not a big issue to me but it's just an example.

The contract is definitely hindering his value to a team like Florida making them a little more lukewarm on him due to money reasons. Although I don't think it's a major issue.

Also your last point isn't all that great. It would make sense if there were a lot of buyers on the market, but right now and for the forseeable future there are really only 2-3 teams in the mix.

If they have at least alright goaltending and Gillis holds onto his high price, don't expect them to cave, they'll simply look for other options.

I dont see why hey cant out-wait van, what happens when Luongo gets really unsatisfied, what happens when he's still sitting there next summer when he hits 34. His value will only drop once you get to about the deadline.

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08-20-2012, 09:14 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by rdawg1234 View Post
I dont see why hey cant out-wait van, what happens when Luongo gets really unsatisfied, what happens when he's still sitting there next summer when he hits 34. His value will only drop once you get to about the deadline.
GM's don't have forever to wait, some of them might not haver a job when the deadline rolls around. Gillis has two great goalies, a great team and his job is secure. He's the one that's able to wait.

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08-20-2012, 09:27 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by rdawg1234 View Post
You guys really think Luongo is internally happy about this situation?

Him saying "it's time to move on" publicly to me means that privately he thinks "get me the ******* out of here by the time the season starts"

Schneider is probably gonna come out hot, giving little reason to play Luongo consistently.

how will he even play as a backup for the first while? I cant see him being really into it.
If Luongo really wants to be moved, he would have stayed silent this summer. He had 2 interviews in July, both of which caused more controversy, and likely threw obstacles in the way of Gillis trading him. Nash asked for a trade and never said a word about it - which is a smart and respectful move.

I know Luongo and his agent are meeting this week I believe. I just hope they don't spearhead some sort of idiotic media strategy to put pressure on Gillis.

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08-20-2012, 09:34 PM
  #108
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Your effectiveness as a third liner does not hinge on production but when you're talking depth, you need to consider your players ability to move up the lineup. Neither Raymond or Hansen are out of place on a 2nd line while Lapierre would stick out like a sore thumb as a 2nd line centre.

I don't think the points Lapierre put up as a winger are relevant at all to the discussion.
I feel like you're making too big of a deal out of the 10 point difference that would unquestionably make Lapierre a 3rd liner, that he may or may not get if he were regularly on the 3rd line.

Even if he's not, I don't think that's enough to make that huge of a difference when comparing depth across positions.

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Old
08-20-2012, 09:36 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by rdawg1234 View Post
You guys really think Luongo is internally happy about this situation?

Him saying "it's time to move on" publicly to me means that privately he thinks "get me the ******* out of here by the time the season starts"

Schneider is probably gonna come out hot, giving little reason to play Luongo.

how will he even play as a backup for the first while? I cant see him being really into it.
Roberto luongo is a professional athlete who signed a 12 year contract on his own free will.

I can guarantee he's not crying into his pillow every night about the situation.

His statement about 'time to move on' was also followed by a statement like 'I wouldn't say never' about being a Canuck after this year.

Frankly, I don't care about his 'happiness' - he's paid to play hockey.

You can do all you want to denigrate his value on the message board for a team you don't cheer for.

It makes me laugh how often leaf fans come here to tell us what Luongo is worth and how much his value is going to drop like its fact. It's hilarious on this board the value can only go down and has no chance to go up.

It just makes me chuckle.

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Old
08-20-2012, 10:31 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by rdawg1234 View Post
His contract is bad due to injury concerns, not the long-term kind of but the J.S Giguere, Vokoun kind. Where when he hits his mid-30's and he's out for 10-20 games due to a groin injury and possibly becomes injury prone. Then you're stuck with him and cant trade him but he still only plays 40-50 games a year. Not a big issue to me but it's just an example.

The contract is definitely hindering his value to a team like Florida making them a little more lukewarm on him due to money reasons. Although I don't think it's a major issue.
first 2 you admit aren't an issue.

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Also your last point isn't all that great. It would make sense if there were a lot of buyers on the market, but right now and for the forseeable future there are really only 2-3 teams in the mix.[/B]
My last point was: There is none of this " I don't want him because of his contract, but I'll take him if I can get him for cheap" garbage. They would still be paying the same contract! ------ I don't think you get it. They either don't want him at all, or they are full of crap and are just playing the "you ask high, I ask low" game. Gillis has said that he's comfortable going into next season with two #1's. Luongo's trade wishes aren't more important than the team. How long did it take to move Nash after he wanted to be dealt? The Turris situation.... if they can wait for the right deal, so can the Canucks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdawg1234 View Post
If they have at least alright goaltending and Gillis holds onto his high price, don't expect them to cave, they'll simply look for other options.
What other bona-fide #1's are available?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdawg1234 View Post
I dont see why they cant out-wait van,what happens when Luongo gets really unsatisfied, what happens when he's still sitting there next summer when he hits 34. His value will only drop once you get to about the deadline.
Then Luongo will have to expand his trade possibilities. He's handcuffed himself at that point. Canucks "own" him, not the other way around.

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Old
08-21-2012, 12:55 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Roberto luongo is a professional athlete who signed a 12 year contract on his own free will.

I can guarantee he's not crying into his pillow every night about the situation.

His statement about 'time to move on' was also followed by a statement like 'I wouldn't say never' about being a Canuck after this year.

Frankly, I don't care about his 'happiness' - he's paid to play hockey.

You can do all you want to denigrate his value on the message board for a team you don't cheer for.

It makes me laugh how often leaf fans come here to tell us what Luongo is worth and how much his value is going to drop like its fact. It's hilarious on this board the value can only go down and has no chance to go up.

It just makes me chuckle.
Just to clarify, hockey players are paid to WIN, not to play.

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08-21-2012, 01:14 AM
  #112
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Just to clarify, hockey players are paid to WIN, not to play.
Hockey players get paid to play hockey...the paychecks come win or lose.

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08-21-2012, 01:23 AM
  #113
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Slams head into wall but replies, ironic?

This thread is beyond predictable.
Originally it was just the emoticon but I figured virtually everyone deserves the courtesy of a couple of sentences..

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08-21-2012, 01:35 AM
  #114
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Just to clarify, hockey players are paid to WIN, not to play.
What? No they aren't.

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Old
08-21-2012, 01:59 AM
  #115
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Just to clarify, hockey players are paid to WIN, not to play.
Then Rick Nash owes someone a heck of a lot of money

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08-21-2012, 02:31 AM
  #116
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Purely hypothetical. Keeping in mind the Nucks current roster and farm team assets, who would Canucks fans rather get: Bjugstad or Gudbranson?

I'm convinced Gillis wants Guds. Friedman stated 1 of the 6 players Gillis targeted in the Hodgson trade was Guds : 30 Thoughts
We also know Gillis has a history of going after specific players yr after yr until he gets them (Weise, Gragnani). The Canucks currently only have 7 d-men on the roster, but historically they've always kept 8. So unless he has a change in defensive philosophy, it's seems odd.

Personally, I'd rather have Bjugstad. Guds was a rookie last yr, but his underlying numbers were horrible. By horrible I mean he sunk like the titanic in easy waters. By comparison, Tanev has played fewer NHL games than Guds, but his underlying numbers were 5X better playing very difficult minutes.

So what do Nucks fans think?

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08-21-2012, 05:37 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by SunshineRays View Post
Purely hypothetical. Keeping in mind the Nucks current roster and farm team assets, who would Canucks fans rather get: Bjugstad or Gudbranson?

I'm convinced Gillis wants Guds. Friedman stated 1 of the 6 players Gillis targeted in the Hodgson trade was Guds : 30 Thoughts
We also know Gillis has a history of going after specific players yr after yr until he gets them (Weise, Gragnani). The Canucks currently only have 7 d-men on the roster, but historically they've always kept 8. So unless he has a change in defensive philosophy, it's seems odd.

Personally, I'd rather have Bjugstad. Guds was a rookie last yr, but his underlying numbers were horrible. By horrible I mean he sunk like the titanic in easy waters. By comparison, Tanev has played fewer NHL games than Guds, but his underlying numbers were 5X better playing very difficult minutes.

So what do Nucks fans think?
Bjugstad or bust.

In all seriousness, they're both fantastic young players, but I just think Bjugstad has the more unique skill set.

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08-21-2012, 06:51 AM
  #118
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Are you guys joking?

Both are great prospects, don't get me wrong - but Gudbranson has all of Bjugstad's size and the potential to be a Chris Pronger like player. There has been one of those drafted in the last twenty years, I don't know how a player of that calibre with that skill set could be any more rare.

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08-21-2012, 08:24 AM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SunshineRays View Post
Purely hypothetical. Keeping in mind the Nucks current roster and farm team assets, who would Canucks fans rather get: Bjugstad or Gudbranson?

I'm convinced Gillis wants Guds. Friedman stated 1 of the 6 players Gillis targeted in the Hodgson trade was Guds : 30 Thoughts
We also know Gillis has a history of going after specific players yr after yr until he gets them (Weise, Gragnani). The Canucks currently only have 7 d-men on the roster, but historically they've always kept 8. So unless he has a change in defensive philosophy, it's seems odd.

Personally, I'd rather have Bjugstad. Guds was a rookie last yr, but his underlying numbers were horrible. By horrible I mean he sunk like the titanic in easy waters. By comparison, Tanev has played fewer NHL games than Guds, but his underlying numbers were 5X better playing very difficult minutes.

So what do Nucks fans think?

I question Bjugstad's ability to play up to his size, and his ultimate upside. I don't see a mean streak in him. And it could be very important. That will to punish opponents. If Taylor Pyatt had an ounce of that...


Gudbranson has it. And while he may be struggling to find his way now, by the end, he should be a force. They're both great, but if I had a choice, Gudbranson would be the ticket. He will do everything he can to become better... That's internal drive few players have.

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08-21-2012, 09:11 AM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SunshineRays View Post
Purely hypothetical. Keeping in mind the Nucks current roster and farm team assets, who would Canucks fans rather get: Bjugstad or Gudbranson?

I'm convinced Gillis wants Guds. Friedman stated 1 of the 6 players Gillis targeted in the Hodgson trade was Guds : 30 Thoughts
We also know Gillis has a history of going after specific players yr after yr until he gets them (Weise, Gragnani). The Canucks currently only have 7 d-men on the roster, but historically they've always kept 8. So unless he has a change in defensive philosophy, it's seems odd.

Personally, I'd rather have Bjugstad. Guds was a rookie last yr, but his underlying numbers were horrible. By horrible I mean he sunk like the titanic in easy waters. By comparison, Tanev has played fewer NHL games than Guds, but his underlying numbers were 5X better playing very difficult minutes.

So what do Nucks fans think?
As much as I like Bjugstad, Gudbranson would be the guy I would take everytime between the two. Our back end needs more bite, especially in the top 4.

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08-21-2012, 10:36 AM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SunshineRays View Post
Purely hypothetical. Keeping in mind the Nucks current roster and farm team assets, who would Canucks fans rather get: Bjugstad or Gudbranson?

I'm convinced Gillis wants Guds. Friedman stated 1 of the 6 players Gillis targeted in the Hodgson trade was Guds : 30 Thoughts
We also know Gillis has a history of going after specific players yr after yr until he gets them (Weise, Gragnani). The Canucks currently only have 7 d-men on the roster, but historically they've always kept 8. So unless he has a change in defensive philosophy, it's seems odd.

Personally, I'd rather have Bjugstad. Guds was a rookie last yr, but his underlying numbers were horrible. By horrible I mean he sunk like the titanic in easy waters. By comparison, Tanev has played fewer NHL games than Guds, but his underlying numbers were 5X better playing very difficult minutes.

So what do Nucks fans think?
Gudbranson easily. I think Gaunce and Bjugstad will become similar players, but we have no one like Gudbranson in our system right now.

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08-21-2012, 11:04 AM
  #122
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The new CBA will have the greatest affect on what happens happens to Luongo, even more than Doan's decision or Schneider's performance.

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08-21-2012, 11:24 AM
  #123
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The new CBA will have the greatest affect on what happens happens to Luongo, even more than Doan's decision or Schneider's performance.
Doesn't seem to faze certain people like Ed Snider.

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08-21-2012, 11:53 AM
  #124
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The new CBA will have the greatest affect on what happens happens to Luongo, even more than Doan's decision or Schneider's performance.
Why?

He has a contract. Admittedly it is a cap circumvention contract. But it is NHL approved. His cap hit is 5.33 million. Even if there is a clawback, it would only make his contract even more cap effective.

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08-21-2012, 12:49 PM
  #125
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We're on thread 6?!

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