HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > Other Leagues > Canadian Junior Hockey > OHL

Here comes the Union

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-21-2012, 05:24 AM
  #1
HLLYWD99
Registered User
 
HLLYWD99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 404
vCash: 500
Here comes the Union

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/08/20...union-in-works

About time IMHO!

HLLYWD99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 07:05 AM
  #2
Crottenham
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 813
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HLLYWD99 View Post
It was inevitable I think. The owners must be pretty upset at this development!

Crottenham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 07:12 AM
  #3
bidzey
Registered User
 
bidzey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 556
vCash: 500
I don't think it's a good idea. There should be something in place that stops the owners from all out abusing the system, but a union that would represent mostly kids gives me a gutt feeling that it's not to the player's best interest. The last thing you need when you're between the ages of 16-20 is to NOT play hockey while you're trying to make the NHL. You can hurt a player's progress not only physicaly but mentally too. Yea sure... you could still skate and train, but that's not the same thing. CHL although it is a business, it's also a development program and there's no room for unions in a atmosphere like that.

Just my 5 cents....

bidzey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 07:23 AM
  #4
hockeylegend11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,501
vCash: 500
Would not surprise me if the 400 grand the spits are to pay the league goes to the havenots in the league ie Owen Sd,Erie,Peterborough in order to satisfy the unions desire for increased edc funding per player

hockeylegend11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 07:48 AM
  #5
Crottenham
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 813
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bidzey View Post
I don't think it's a good idea. There should be something in place that stops the owners from all out abusing the system, but a union that would represent mostly kids gives me a gutt feeling that it's not to the player's best interest. The last thing you need when you're between the ages of 16-20 is to NOT play hockey while you're trying to make the NHL. You can hurt a player's progress not only physicaly but mentally too. Yea sure... you could still skate and train, but that's not the same thing. CHL although it is a business, it's also a development program and there's no room for unions in a atmosphere like that.

Just my 5 cents....
Given the rise of some of the bigger franchises and their ensuing top-line revenue, it is again not surprising the unions now see an easy mark. With success comes increased scrutiny and unions have taken a beating generally in recent years in the greater economy; this membership drive is just another avenue to increase their own revenues.

If there are work stoppages in the future in junior hockey, pro scouting becomes even that much more difficult.

Development program or not, these kids are more or less employees. Perhaps the weekly stipend they currently get is immaterial, but factor in the accruing of the annual education package even as it is currently constituted and that is ultimately their remuneration.

It's going to be a whole new world going forward.

Crottenham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 07:52 AM
  #6
wjhl2009fan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,044
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crottenham View Post
Given the rise of some of the bigger franchises and their ensuing top-line revenue, it is again not surprising the unions now see an easy mark. With success comes increased scrutiny and unions have taken a beating generally in recent years in the greater economy; this membership drive is just another avenue to increase their own revenues.

If there are work stoppages in the future in junior hockey, pro scouting becomes even that much more difficult.

Development program or not, these kids are more or less employees. Perhaps the weekly stipend they currently get is immaterial, but factor in the accruing of the annual education package even as it is currently constituted and that is ultimately their remuneration.

It's going to be a whole new world going forward.
If the numbers are true and this union gets a cut of ticket sales/concession/tv rights/sales i am not sure how well this will look not just to the public but other unions.

wjhl2009fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 07:52 AM
  #7
wjhl2009fan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,044
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HLLYWD99 View Post
Why do you think its good?

wjhl2009fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 08:00 AM
  #8
bidzey
Registered User
 
bidzey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 556
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crottenham View Post
Given the rise of some of the bigger franchises and their ensuing top-line revenue, it is again not surprising the unions now see an easy mark. With success comes increased scrutiny and unions have taken a beating generally in recent years in the greater economy; this membership drive is just another avenue to increase their own revenues.

If there are work stoppages in the future in junior hockey, pro scouting becomes even that much more difficult.

Development program or not, these kids are more or less employees. Perhaps the weekly stipend they currently get is immaterial, but factor in the accruing of the annual education package even as it is currently constituted and that is ultimately their remuneration.

It's going to be a whole new world going forward.
that's exacly what I was thinking... I belonged to various unions for over 37 years and it's mostly about your money, more than your employment status. These kids are housed, fed, educated all for free, and loved by thousands of fans. What a terrible life they have! They are not employees, they are in a unique prep program, and a union would serve only as an expesive distraction. The more I think about it the more I can see how distructive it would be to the kids. That group that call themselves the "CHLPA" should be approached by all the players picked up by them, and thrown away as far as they can throw them.


Last edited by bidzey: 08-21-2012 at 08:20 AM.
bidzey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 08:00 AM
  #9
Ward Cornell
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,234
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjhl2009fan View Post
If the numbers are true and this union gets a cut of ticket sales/concession/tv rights/sales i am not sure how well this will look not just to the public but other unions.
Concession sales?
Doesn't most arenas(cities) own the concession rights?
I really don't see how this works out.
IMHO the final outcome is that the leagues will "up" the pay package and rework the Education Packages.

Ward Cornell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 08:05 AM
  #10
Crottenham
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 813
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ward Cornell View Post
Concession sales?
Doesn't most arenas(cities) own the concession rights?
I really don't see how this works out.
IMHO the final outcome is that the leagues will "up" the pay package and rework the Education Packages.
It may also make it alot more complicated for Mr. Branch to launch into some of the massive suspensions he has recently instituted of players, going forward......

Crottenham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 08:14 AM
  #11
bidzey
Registered User
 
bidzey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 556
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crottenham View Post
It was inevitable I think. The owners must be pretty upset at this development!
Not really, the owners know how stupid this really all is. Picture this, they go on strike, so the player says... I better get training and skating in. Owner says with a big smile... "sorry buddy, I own the arena too" ... Community arena is already sheduled tight no ice time available... hmmm... can you see the ugly picture I'm drawing here? see how this can really hurt the kids?

bidzey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 08:22 AM
  #12
Crottenham
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 813
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bidzey View Post
Not really, the owners know how stupid this really all is. Picture this, they go on strike, so the player says... I better get training and skating in. Owner says with a big smile... "sorry buddy, I own the arena too" ... Community arena is already sheduled tight no ice time available... hmmm... can you see the ugly picture I'm drawing here? see how this can really hurt the kids?
Well, then union has to step up and organize ice time.....that's what union dues and contingency funds are for! If you have the funds, ice time can always be found especially during the day in any city/town in the province!

Owners are too smart to take this lightly me thinks.

Crottenham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 08:25 AM
  #13
Ward Cornell
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,234
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crottenham View Post
Well, then union has to step up and organize ice time.....that's what union dues and contingency funds are for! If you have the funds, ice time can always be found especially during the day in any city/town in the province!

Owners are too smart to take this lightly me thinks.
Hopefully this CHLPA doesn't become as radical as the CFLPA!

Ward Cornell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 08:30 AM
  #14
againsttheboards
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7
vCash: 500
As a parent of a 17 year old player in the OHL, I find it very odd that if this is moving forward, my son has not heard a word about this? His team mates have not mentioned it? His advisor has not mentioned it? Does a Union not need a signed agreement from potential members to move forward, or at least a majority?

I would be very suspicious of the motives behind this 'Union'. I highly doubt it would be for the benefit of the players?

againsttheboards is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 08:33 AM
  #15
Crottenham
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 813
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ward Cornell View Post
Hopefully this CHLPA doesn't become as radical as the CFLPA!
Btw, if you think the CHLPA has a case, don't be too surprised if those student/athletes in the NCAA eventually also don't organize themselves. If one is to believe some of the top CHL franchises are making significant net returns off the backs of teenagers, what about the top NCAA programs that annually pull in $60-120M in net revenue, and all their players get is an education package?

Times they are a-changin!!!!!!!!!

P.S. Personally, I'm not a big union guy but I do believe they have their place. Unfortunately, they inevitably cross the line as far as their mandate is concerned.

I can't help but think to some of Tigers1992 comments relative to the disparity between top and lower tiered OHL franchises and how they have treated their players to date. Between the league and those franchises, perhaps if they had a much more uniform approach to ensuring all players were treated top notch across the board, this recent development might have at the very least been delayed?

Crottenham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 08:36 AM
  #16
bidzey
Registered User
 
bidzey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 556
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by againsttheboards View Post
As a parent of a 17 year old player in the OHL, I find it very odd that if this is moving forward, my son has not heard a word about this? His team mates have not mentioned it? His advisor has not mentioned it? Does a Union not need a signed agreement from potential members to move forward, or at least a majority?

I would be very suspicious of the motives behind this 'Union'. I highly doubt it would be for the benefit of the players?
article says if 60% of the kids agree, it's a done deal. I think all the parents should get together and stop this if it's really happening. You guys must've spent thousands and thousand of dollars bringing up your kid to where he is now, and now they are under a threat by business people that are far more interested in money than they are in your child.

bidzey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 08:45 AM
  #17
Crottenham
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 813
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bidzey View Post
article says if 60% of the kids agree, it's a done deal. I think all the parents should get together and stop this if it's really happening. You guys must've spent thousands and thousand of dollars bringing up your kid to where he is now, and now they are under a threat by business people that are far more interested in money than they are in your child.
To be fair, don't kid yourself junior hockey is also a business and CHL team owners are also first and foremost interested in money.....same as advisors, same as potential union organizers, same as advertisers that see the on-ice product as a way to sell more shampoo and cars!

just playing the devil's advocate here.

Crottenham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 08:49 AM
  #18
bidzey
Registered User
 
bidzey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 556
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crottenham View Post
To be fair, don't kid yourself junior hockey is also a business and CHL team owners are also first and foremost interested in money.....same as advisors, same as potential union organizers, same as advertisers that see the on-ice product as a way to sell more shampoo and cars!

just playing the devil's advocate here.
the difference is that the owner and the league need to have the players on the ice for that money to be made. NOT SO for unions. They enventually need to have them play, but meanwhile carreers and lives are being ruined. Your at the most crushial time of your hockey carreer, it's a make or break, and you only have a very, very short time to prove yourself. You can't afford and don't have the time to play business, with unions and politics.


Last edited by bidzey: 08-21-2012 at 08:57 AM.
bidzey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 08:57 AM
  #19
Crottenham
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 813
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bidzey View Post
the difference is that the owner and the league need to have the players on the ice for that money to be made. NOT SO for unions. They enventually need to have them play, but meanwhile carreers and lives are being ruined.
I think you are over-stating that careers and lives would be ruined. What would happen if there was let's say a 6 month work stoppage in junior hockey?

NHL teams would end up taking more flyers on kids they have less knowledge on? Some kids that would have been drafted would be free agents? Sounds like the OHL draft where people "sympathize" with draft favours by claiming free agents just have to work harder and would have their pick of which team to go to. Here's a thought, perhaps the NHL pushes that draft class out a year? Who does that hurt?

P.S. You don't think that if there were a CHL work stoppage the Tier 2 leagues on down wouldn't become more "popular?" Where there's a will there's a way. The junior players in my mind are in a much better situation that the ageing pro who loses a year of pro hockey in that income is lost forever and skills are diminished when age is catching up to them. Junior aged players don't have to worry about age-related regression.

Crottenham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 09:02 AM
  #20
bidzey
Registered User
 
bidzey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 556
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crottenham View Post
I think you are over-stating that careers and lives would be ruined. What would happen if there was let's say a 6 month work stoppage in junior hockey?

NHL teams would end up taking more flyers on kids they have less knowledge on? Some kids that would have been drafted would be free agents? Sounds like the OHL draft where people "sympathize" with draft favours by claiming free agents just have to work harder and would have their pick of which team to go to. Here's a thought, perhaps the NHL pushes that draft class out a year? Who does that hurt?

P.S. You don't think that if there were a CHL work stoppage the Tier 2 leagues on down wouldn't become more "popular?" Where there's a will there's a way. The junior players in my mind are in a much better situation that the ageing pro who loses a year of pro hockey in that income is lost forever and skills are diminished when age is catching up to them. Junior aged players don't have to worry about age-related regression.
we could speculate different senarios all day I guess, I just think this is a really bad idea, very bad. Those kids have all the support they need, and the league in a overall general sense have been taking good care of them.

bidzey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 09:08 AM
  #21
Crottenham
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 813
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bidzey View Post
we could speculate different senarios all day I guess, I just think this is a really bad idea, very bad. Those kids have all the support they need, and the league in a overall general sense have been taking good care of them.
You're right re the speculation and multiple scenario's. As stated before I'm generally not a union guy having worked in management since getting out of university. I'll certainly be watching with interest as this whole thing develops. Pretty fascinating frankly.

Crottenham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 09:29 AM
  #22
bidzey
Registered User
 
bidzey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 556
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crottenham View Post
I think you are over-stating that careers and lives would be ruined. What would happen if there was let's say a 6 month work stoppage in junior hockey?
I'll just say one more thing... what if the 6 months are around the Ivan Hlinka Memorial tournament. There were scouts from u-20 there. U-18 only comes once in your life. It has alot of influance of where you rank in the following June NHL draft. This is just one senario. In a really bad case where it's more than 6 months... maybe it wouldn't happen often, but I think it's not an "over-statement" it could be that bad.

bidzey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 09:34 AM
  #23
Crottenham
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 813
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bidzey View Post
I'll just say one more thing... what if the 6 months are around the Ivan Hlinka Memorial tournament. There were scouts from u-20 there. U-18 only comes once in your life. It has alot of influance of where you rank in the following June NHL draft. This is just one senario. In a really bad case where it's more than 6 months... maybe it wouldn't happen often, but I think it's not an "over-statement" it could be that bad.
I suspect a summer tournament wouldn't be affected by any type of work stoppage, but who knows......

Crottenham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 09:36 AM
  #24
Ward Cornell
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,234
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crottenham View Post
Btw, if you think the CHLPA has a case, don't be too surprised if those student/athletes in the NCAA eventually also don't organize themselves. If one is to believe some of the top CHL franchises are making significant net returns off the backs of teenagers, what about the top NCAA programs that annually pull in $60-120M in net revenue, and all their players get is an education package?

Times they are a-changin!!!!!!!!!

P.S. Personally, I'm not a big union guy but I do believe they have their place. Unfortunately, they inevitably cross the line as far as their mandate is concerned.

I can't help but think to some of Tigers1992 comments relative to the disparity between top and lower tiered OHL franchises and how they have treated their players to date. Between the league and those franchises, perhaps if they had a much more uniform approach to ensuring all players were treated top notch across the board, this recent development might have at the very least been delayed?
On different boards I've advocated for the NCAA athletes to form a union. It just costs the NCAA a chair and desk in the classroom since the course and professors are already there for the paying students. While the CHL costs for these scholarships is actually a money spent!
In many many ways IMHO the CHL player right now has it leaps and bounds over a NCAA player but it still can be better!
Plus they also have graduated scholarships in the same vein as the CHL Scholarships and can be terminated at any time. While the CHL player gets his education fully secured with "time served" if he doesn't go pro.

btw...I do agree 100% with the rest of your post also!

Ward Cornell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 09:45 AM
  #25
CharlieGirl
Registered User
 
CharlieGirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Kitchener, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,790
vCash: 500
I'll get concerned when an actual legitimate player agent is involved in this CHLPA, when a real player is involved (to this point, I've heard that one player from Brampton was contacted and asked to be the OHL union president -- which is wonky all on its own), and when the league has been contacted.

I'll give the group behind this credit -- they have a lot of people talking about something that has very little chance of succeeding.

I'm curious how they expect to get 60% of players to sign on when 50% can't legally sign anything. Funny math, I suppose.

CharlieGirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:51 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.