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Canucks' Prospects/Picks

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Old
08-20-2012, 08:12 PM
  #51
VinnyC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Intense Rage View Post
Cool, so you saw a Canuck fan hype up a Canuck player on a Canucks fan forum. Now let's go to Calgarypuck to get a good sample of Flames fans and LetsGoWings to get one of Red Wings fans.

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Old
08-20-2012, 08:35 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by dave babych returns View Post
The Canucks prospects being discussed here are not highly touted and are probably unlikely to return much in a trade for proven NHLers - especially when we're talking about fanbases on HFBoards (who in general go largely on reputation).

Players like Connauton won't be high on the list of most armchair GMs until he has shown some promise at the NHL level, and Cannata until he is at least a dominant player at the AHL level (simply due to the fact that there are fewer jobs for goaltenders.. hence the hullabaloo over players like Jonathan Bernier and Ben Bishop). Until then they are relative unknowns with little in the way of pedigree at first glance.

Personally I think the Canucks need to hang onto these players - our NHL depth is good enough and our organizational depth is shaky enough that you can't be moving multiple players with NHL upside for mediocre stopgaps (ie. the kinds of guys you'd realistically get in return right now).

As has been said with the Canucks injury troubles on the blue line, a player like Connauton - possibly our most NHL ready young defenseman - could get a lot of ice time this season if he proves he's ready, and his play could be instrumental in helping this team get past its usual injury woes without having to spend on a replacement.

Cannata has been nothing but impressive since being selected and could be battling for the #1 job in the AHL this year - ie. third on the organization's depth chart. You can trade a player like that but not without replacing them in fairly short order, and for the Canucks that means.. David Honzik? Jonathan Ihilati? No thank you.

For me the value of these two players is only going to go up, and we can afford to wait for that to happen.

On the flip side if some team at the deadline wants Yan Sauve or Billy Sweatt instead of a third or fourth round pick for this year's Chris Higgins/Max Lapierre/Samme Pahlsson, I'm all ears.

This. If any prospects move, it will be Sweatt and/or Sauve as they are more in the sink or swim time in their development.


Connauten, I think, will be in the AHL until his 23rd year - much like what Detroit did with Smith. They'll make sure he hammers out his D issues at a lower level. And he has progressively done just that. But he needs to keep progressing there...

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Old
08-20-2012, 10:06 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
There are some prospects that the Canucks have that I feel will not really get a chance to show their worth due to the depth we have on our roster.

Kevin Connauton, our best defense prospect, may never crack our roster, as there aren't likely to be any openings, especially not on the left side.

Joe Cannata, a promising young goalie prospect, is stuck behind Luongo, Schneider, and Lack on the depth chart.

I was wondering if any of these two could be packaged with picks or maybe another roster player to fill some holes or for an upgrade. (Ex, getting a good third line centre, or packaging them with Booth or Ballard or Raymond to get an upgrade)

Are their any teams that are looking for a potential young backup or offensive dman that you'd be willing to offer something for?
Maybe you should learn something about the prospects before asking/'offering' them up in trade?

Connauton is probably the Canucks best defensive prospect and is almost certain to see time in the NHL this year - he's likely the first call-up in case of injury.

Cannata is a little fuzzier, but if Luongo is moved then Cannata might battle Matt Climie for starter with the Wolves, and will definitely push Corbeil-Theriault for the backup spot. Regardless, you don't move goalies - especially ones who were probably the best in college hockey last year - for no reason. Not when they're developing as you thought they might when you drafted them.

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Old
08-20-2012, 11:06 PM
  #54
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Isn't Climie a UFA?

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Old
08-20-2012, 11:53 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
Cool, so you saw a Canuck fan hype up a Canuck player on a Canucks fan forum. Now let's go to Calgarypuck to get a good sample of Flames fans and LetsGoWings to get one of Red Wings fans.
Where did I insinuate that I only think the Canucks fan base has homers? Maybe you should read the post I quoted and look at my post from that context, but you would think after 5000 posts someone would understand how forums work.

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08-21-2012, 12:04 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Intense Rage View Post
Where did I insinuate that I only think the Canucks fan base has homers? Maybe you should read the post I quoted and look at my post from that context, but you would think after 5000 posts someone would understand how forums work.
Way to miss the point and grasp at straws.

You don't think that somewhere out in the internet there will be at least a single fan who is delusional about his favorite team's players? I could probably dig Calgarypuck a bit and find people saying that Bartschi will be like Hossa; or that J-Bow is as good as Suter or Weber and many other silly things. That's what people do in fan forums.

Now, if you could find an HF regular seriously saying that Tanev is a future Norris candidate then you'll be forgiven.

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08-21-2012, 12:13 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
If Connauton is your best defensive prospects AND doesn't get a chance to get NHL ice time, either Connauton sucks really bad or your management is stupid.
Or he's 22 and should hopefully start seeing time as a callup this year.

Trading him at this point would be really stupid.

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Old
08-21-2012, 12:21 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
Way to miss the point and grasp at straws.

You don't think that somewhere out in the internet there will be at least a single fan who is delusional about his favorite team's players? I could probably dig Calgarypuck a bit and find people saying that Bartschi will be like Hossa; or that J-Bow is as good as Suter or Weber and many other silly things. That's what people do in fan forums.

Now, if you could find an HF regular seriously saying that Tanev is a future Norris candidate then you'll be forgiven.
What are you even talking about? Luck 6 challenged someone to find a post about where a Canucks fan suggested Tanev could be a future Norris winner and I did just that. I did a search on google and posted the first result I could find.

I dont know why you are trying to convince me that all fans do this, no **** you don't think I know that...

Did Luck 6 mention that he was looking for a post on HF? No he didn't so I dont see why you are asking me for one. Seriously just go away.

Oh and finally how exactly am I "grasping at straws"? Perhaps you should look up the phrase before using it in a sentence.

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Old
08-21-2012, 12:25 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
There's no one he can replace on the roster, unless we trade Ballard. I'd feel much safer with Ballard tham Connauton on the third pairing.
If Connauton makes the team, I would assume it would mean he'd be ready for a #6 role at least. Even if Ballard's still an upgrade, it still might be better cap management to use that space/value elsewhere.

If (and that's a huge if) Connauton looks without a doubt ready to play with Tanev on the bottom six and for that to be a solid pairing, I would much rather swap Ballard for an equally overpaid but effective third line center, for example.

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Old
08-21-2012, 01:17 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Intense Rage View Post
Oh and finally how exactly am I "grasping at straws"? Perhaps you should look up the phrase before using it in a sentence.
You're not grasping at straws you've just completely missed the point.

Poster Luck 6 challenged someone to find a post where someone claims Chris Tanev is a future Norris-calibre defenseman in response to a poster whose stuck his nose into every Canucks-related thread on this board to criticize the organization or fanbase and in this case who claimed that a set of the fanbase sees Tanev in this light.

Which is true technically, in that despite there being almost twenty thousand threads and a million and a half posts in the Canucks board here on HFBoards, you had to go to a completely different forum to find a single example of a Canucks fan making a statement like this. So in the sense that one statement has been made out of millions upon millions of posts on the subject of the Canucks, poster jumptheshark was correct and you are correct.

As to poster jumptheshark's original point - if he had one beyond jumping on the chance to take a shot at the fan base - yes the Canucks prospect pool is poorer in quality and quantity than that of many other teams, however it has little or nothing to do with the topic at hand (since like all NHL teams they still have at least a small handful of quality prospects, the two mentioned by the OP among them). Of course as I mentioned that hasn't stopped this poster from sticking his nose into any discussion of this team on this board of late.

As to your point.. well, did you actually have one? Beyond the meaningless pedantry of taking a rhetorical challenge literally..

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Old
08-21-2012, 01:46 AM
  #61
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Is Tanev a future Norris caliber dman? no Do I think he has what it takes to be? yes Tanev is the type of player that will improve in quantum leaps, he has what very few players have, hockey sense, and he is very raw. Once he starts putting everything together people will be asking where he came from. I would have to be insane to bet money on him getting to that level but if there is a long shot player that could get there and surprise everyone, he is it.

One way or another he will be a core piece on any teams backend eventually.

As far as this thread goes. Connauton is a pretty good prospect, although still a coin toss in my eyes. Years ago I thought he would never make it because he lacked exactly what Tanev has in spades, hockey sense, but he has really come along. He will be the top dman in the AHL and a call up, with a long shot chance at cracking the opening roster. He is exactly the type of prospect the team needs, there is zero chance he gets traded. The way he has progressed he will stick with the team until he either makes it, or becomes eligible for waivers and expendable.

Cannata on the other hand hasn't even turned pro and is already looking like top level goalie prospect. He is years away from challenging for a spot and there is again zero chance he gets traded. If he gets the starting job in the AHL this year and shows what many think he can then he will become the next Canuck goalie project. His possible opening will be in 3 years when Schneider's contract is up and maybe Lacks as well. Perfect timing for the team.

As it stands both these prospects in their respective positions are at the age and trajectory that the team needs. Its a perfect fit.

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08-21-2012, 02:13 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave babych returns View Post
You're not grasping at straws you've just completely missed the point.

Poster Luck 6 challenged someone to find a post where someone claims Chris Tanev is a future Norris-calibre defenseman in response to a poster whose stuck his nose into every Canucks-related thread on this board to criticize the organization or fanbase and in this case who claimed that a set of the fanbase sees Tanev in this light.

Which is true technically, in that despite there being almost twenty thousand threads and a million and a half posts in the Canucks board here on HFBoards, you had to go to a completely different forum to find a single example of a Canucks fan making a statement like this. So in the sense that one statement has been made out of millions upon millions of posts on the subject of the Canucks, poster jumptheshark was correct and you are correct.

As to poster jumptheshark's original point - if he had one beyond jumping on the chance to take a shot at the fan base - yes the Canucks prospect pool is poorer in quality and quantity than that of many other teams, however it has little or nothing to do with the topic at hand (since like all NHL teams they still have at least a small handful of quality prospects, the two mentioned by the OP among them). Of course as I mentioned that hasn't stopped this poster from sticking his nose into any discussion of this team on this board of late.

As to your point.. well, did you actually have one? Beyond the meaningless pedantry of taking a rhetorical challenge literally..
I know not of jumptheshark's previous posts related to the Canucks and to be frank I only care about the post he made on here. I just responded to Luck 6's challenge knowing that there had to be at least one Canucks homer who thought so (not surprising that it was a CDC post).

I did not know that people would take it so seriously or I would not have posted in the first place. The point of my post was to show that generalized statements about an entire fan base can easily be proven to be false. No fan base is particularly more objective than another as every fan base will have its homers.

My post was also a dig at CDC who as ProstheticConscience described is a cesspool lacking objectivity, which is true for most official team forums.

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08-21-2012, 02:23 AM
  #63
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Well if your point was that CDC sucks, I don't think you'll find anyone to argue with you.

As for making blanket statements about fan bases, I agree it goes both ways. Luck 6 should have known that you can probably find evidence of someone out there saying just about anything, however I suspect his point was that poster jumpthesharks implication (that discussing this subject with Canucks fans is a waste of time) was inaccurate and unfair, and in general I would completely agree.

In fact I would say that what poster jumptheshark implied (something along the lines of "don't go there, you're wasting your time trying to have a serious discussion with this fan base") isn't even allowed under the forum's rules - however he conveniently skirted that by saying "some" Canucks fans believe X and then continuing right on to imply that it's pointless to engage the team's fans in discussion on the subject at all.

Which is ludicrous and rightly drew a rebuttal from Luck 6 - even if said rebuttal contained a much more innocuous blanket statement itself.

Anyway I've said more than enough on the subject.

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08-21-2012, 03:24 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProstheticConscience View Post
Can't state this often enough: CDC is complete cesspool. Quoting a post from there as being in any way representative of anyone here is like quoting Eklund as the standard for trade rumours. FYI.
Someone on CDC argued that Jensen is just as good as Couturier and I rely on things like "draft position" and "hockeysfuture" (oh and some bum named Cory Pronman).

The only reason he isnt as good as Couturier is bexause managemet hates our prospects and Philly doesnt.

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08-21-2012, 04:31 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Someone on CDC argued that Jensen is just as good as Couturier and I rely on things like "draft position" and "hockeysfuture" (oh and some bum named Cory Pronman).

The only reason he isnt as good as Couturier is bexause managemet hates our prospects and Philly doesnt.
He clearly has a point.

Gillis is running this franchise to the ground and Gilman can't even count to 72 why is he handling our cap space...

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Old
08-21-2012, 05:18 AM
  #66
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Prospect trade value isn't that high.
As someone said, more projects than prospects.

A good portion of our picks have NHL-level skillsets,
but are still raw, and need more time to develop.

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Old
08-21-2012, 08:40 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Intense Rage View Post
What are you even talking about? Luck 6 challenged someone to find a post about where a Canucks fan suggested Tanev could be a future Norris winner and I did just that. I did a search on google and posted the first result I could find.

I dont know why you are trying to convince me that all fans do this, no **** you don't think I know that...

Did Luck 6 mention that he was looking for a post on HF? No he didn't so I dont see why you are asking me for one. Seriously just go away.

Oh and finally how exactly am I "grasping at straws"? Perhaps you should look up the phrase before using it in a sentence.
Exactly. I mean sure, CDC is a terrible representation of a balance Canuck fan, but the fact remains. I haven't been on CDC in 4 years or so, Im almost forgot how utterly ridiculous it is haha. That was a good reminder. I should have been more clear, I suppose heh.

Anyways, every large franchise has a number of brain dead fans, especially in Canadian markets. Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal seem to be the worst of the worst. Any reasonable Canuck fan who is also a "hockey fan" in general would know Tanev has shown nothing to indicate he's a future Norris candidate.

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