HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Minnesota Wild
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Is the D underrated?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-20-2012, 05:46 PM
  #101
squidz*
dun worry he's cool
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: South of the Border
Country: United States
Posts: 11,897
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Lagoon View Post
Yet somehow the best ones tend to have the lowest GAAs and highest save %s, and the worst have the highest GAAs and lowest save %s.

Strange coincidence that.
Not at all, the problem is that oftentimes "the best" goalies are determined to be that way because of their stats, not their play. On top of that, a fantastic goalie on a terrible team is usually considered to be bad, regardless of their play (e.g. Carey Price). Meanwhile, a terrible goalie on a good team is regarded as being good (e.g. Jimmy Howard).

All you need to see how useless goalie stats are for leaguewide comparisons is to look at a few journeyman goalies. Craig Anderson is a good example. Unless you think that a plane ride from Colorado to Ottawa suddenly turned him into a star in 10-11 (His stats improved by 1.23 GAA and 0.042 Sv%) it's pretty apparent that those stats measure something other than the goalie's play. His move from Chicago to Florida (although over an offseason) had a similar jump. Then suddenly he was mediocre, then terrible in Colorado.

Grabbing just random other goalies here: Roloson's trade to Edmonton improved his GAA by 0.57. Dan Ellis left Nashville and his stat line degraded 0.24 and 0.020 until he moved to Anaheim where it jumped back up 0.54 and 0.28. Mike Smith, good in Dallas, awful in Tampa, great in Phoenix.

The fact of the matter is goalie stats don't rate the goalie. They rate mostly the defensive play of the team in front of them. They're certainly not useful for comparing goalies across divisions, much less across the entire league.

squidz* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2012, 10:29 PM
  #102
Wildfish
Registered User
 
Wildfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Siberia, ND
Country: United States
Posts: 361
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Lagoon View Post
Yet somehow the best ones tend to have the lowest GAAs and highest save %s, and the worst have the highest GAAs and lowest save %s.

Strange coincidence that.
Yeah, meaningless stats, the worst you can use to rate a goalie, except for any others.

Wildfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2012, 10:39 PM
  #103
Wildfish
Registered User
 
Wildfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Siberia, ND
Country: United States
Posts: 361
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by squidz View Post
The fact of the matter is goalie stats don't rate the goalie.
Keep writing volumes of trivia and declaring your opinions are fact and maybe you'll convince one other person. Give your totally subjective list of the five best goalies in the NHL and let's see where their GAA and SV% rank. Lundqvist is just a residual of Torterella's Trap and the Rag$ shot blocking emphasis? Quick is only good because LA has a solid D and D first system? Same for Rinne - only good because he had Weber and Suter and a defensivley responsible cast of characters in front of him? Where did their GAA and SV% rank? Those three didn't help their team win, they were really interchangeable with Joe Blow from wherever? If so, with who?

You like trivia numbers. Look at the last five years of Vezina Finalists and tell us who the Finalists really should have been since GAA and SV% is meaningless.

No one is denying that the system a team plays has an influence on the GAA and SV%, but over a season, the GAA and SV% is the best objective measure of a goalie's performance that we have.


Last edited by Wildfish: 08-21-2012 at 06:04 AM.
Wildfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 10:05 AM
  #104
Jopsey
Registered User
 
Jopsey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Minnesota
Country: United States
Posts: 585
vCash: 500
I was over on NHL.com reading about the Wild's projected line up. They were using Falk for the 3rd D pairing over Stoner. Would you guys rather see Stoner or Falk play in the 3rd D pairing because personally I would rather see Stoner.

Jopsey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 10:58 AM
  #105
Minnesota
Moderator
L'Étoile du Nord
 
Minnesota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Minnesota
Country: United States
Posts: 14,804
vCash: 269
Stoner's better now; Falk has potential.

Ideally, I'd like to see Falk play over Prosser.

Minnesota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 10:59 AM
  #106
Fel 96
JFC
 
Fel 96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Little Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 56,874
vCash: 2037
Send a message via MSN to Fel 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnesota View Post
Ideally, I'd like to see Falk play over Prosser.
Who doesn't?

Fel 96 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 11:04 AM
  #107
GopherState
Repeat Offender...
 
GopherState's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: X Marks The Spot
Posts: 22,783
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fel 96 View Post
Who doesn't?
Prosser for one.

__________________
Blog: First Round Bust: A Cast of Thousands celebrating a rather dodgy track record of Minnesota Wild Drafting.

"Will beats skill when skill doesn't have enough will."
-Doug Woog
1974 1976 1979 2002 2003 2014?
GopherState is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 12:10 PM
  #108
rynryn
Progress to the Mean
 
rynryn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Minny
Country: United States
Posts: 21,302
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by GopherState View Post
Prosser for one.
you take all the good lines

rynryn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 12:19 PM
  #109
squidz*
dun worry he's cool
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: South of the Border
Country: United States
Posts: 11,897
vCash: 500
I'd rather not have Falk playing on the wrong side of the ice when we have the personnel to help that. If Brodin's not keeping Prosser out of a spot, I would hope either Prosser or Kampfer takes that last spot on the right side.

squidz* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 12:57 PM
  #110
MK9
Registered User
 
MK9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Andover, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 1,332
vCash: 500
It's all on paper at this point so who knows. They could gel & do well. Or they could be all over the place and useless. Until they get the product on the ice, it's all speculation. I don't they're as bad as most people think they are. But, they're not likely to be in the top 10 best.

MK9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2012, 05:38 AM
  #111
IronRangeHockey
Registered User
 
IronRangeHockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Iron Range
Country: United States
Posts: 320
vCash: 500
GA has/had alot to do with team defense and netminding, so I wouldn't use those numbers to grade the blueline accurately. I think the defense will be much imroved this year and hopefully Brodin can add to the need for a sound reliable stay at home bl'er. With the retooling Fletch did, I think the Wild could be a really tough team to play against, very gritty with more talent on both sides of the puck.

IronRangeHockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2012, 09:29 AM
  #112
nickschultzfan
Registered User
 
nickschultzfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,890
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jopsey View Post
I was over on NHL.com reading about the Wild's projected line up. They were using Falk for the 3rd D pairing over Stoner. Would you guys rather see Stoner or Falk play in the 3rd D pairing because personally I would rather see Stoner.
Healthy Stoner hands down. Healthy Stoner is a really good hockey player. He's big, hits, clears the crease, fights, and actually pretty decent at the position, skating, and puck-moving side of the game.

If Stoner wasn't injured all the time, I think he would be our #4 Dman at this point in his career. But he hasn't been. He gets injured all the time, which limited his development over the last few seasons, and forces him to re-fight for his position whenever he comes back.

Falk has a lot of potential, but he's no longer a young prospect. He's frustrating because he's "almost" there on a lot of things, but he's not where he needs to be. He's "almost" sound defensively. He's "almost" physical. He "almost" has a good shot. He's "almost" a good skater and puck-mover. But a bunch of "almosts" makes a "never".

nickschultzfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2012, 10:11 AM
  #113
Spawnisen
Believe.
 
Spawnisen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Finland
Country: Finland
Posts: 2,002
vCash: 500
A stone.. definetely over Falk.. I mean...


Spawnisen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2012, 10:49 AM
  #114
Minnesota
Moderator
L'Étoile du Nord
 
Minnesota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Minnesota
Country: United States
Posts: 14,804
vCash: 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
Falk has a lot of potential, but he's no longer a young prospect. He's frustrating because he's "almost" there on a lot of things, but he's not where he needs to be. He's "almost" sound defensively. He's "almost" physical. He "almost" has a good shot. He's "almost" a good skater and puck-mover. But a bunch of "almosts" makes a "never".
Falk's in the NHL, so he's not really a "never;" he's more of a "sometimes."

Minnesota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2012, 12:37 PM
  #115
squidz*
dun worry he's cool
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: South of the Border
Country: United States
Posts: 11,897
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnesota View Post
Falk's in the NHL, so he's not really a "never;" he's more of a "sometimes."
Falk's in the NHL because our next best options are pretty grizzly. His biggest problem is in a similar vein as Stoner's, you don't know how many real games you'll get out of him. With Stoner, you never know if he's going to be healthy. With Falk, you never know which player is going to show up. Will you get the aggressive, calm, physical player who will show up at both ends of the rink? Or will you get the soft, panicky, lost player who you can't wait until he's stapled to the bench?

squidz* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2012, 05:44 PM
  #116
Jopsey
Registered User
 
Jopsey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Minnesota
Country: United States
Posts: 585
vCash: 500
Yep, that's my biggest problem with Falk is his inconsistency

Jopsey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2012, 05:57 PM
  #117
rynryn
Progress to the Mean
 
rynryn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Minny
Country: United States
Posts: 21,302
vCash: 50
Good Falk is better (IMO more valuable--not quite as physical but better skater and better offensive instincts) than Good Stoner, but...the arc swings too wide IMO. Bad falk is also quite a bit worse than bad stoner. He is younger though, so i'd give him a few points for potential.

rynryn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2012, 08:49 PM
  #118
Jarick
Moderator
Doing Nothing
 
Jarick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: St Paul, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 23,605
vCash: 500
Stoner is far more consistent than Falk and while he doesn't have the offensive upside or skills, every other facet of his game is superior. While Falk may grow into an every day NHL'er, my money is on Stoner.

Jarick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2012, 08:58 PM
  #119
Victorious Secret
Dr. Chuck Evil
 
Victorious Secret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Arkansas
Country: Ireland
Posts: 10,978
vCash: 16145
I'm a Falk fan, personally. Hes younger by 3 years. Consistencies can be fixed.

Victorious Secret is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:24 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.