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Old
08-20-2012, 05:54 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
The only problem with DSP playing on the 1st line is that he doesn't have the puck skills, experience or offensive ability to go up against top defensive pairs every night. Palmieri does and started to show signs of some chippiness and willingness to go into the corners as the year went on. Despite what many think, the twins play their best hockey with a skilled player on their wing (Penner, Bertuzzi, Kunitz and Ryan have been the only good fits so far).
I believe that's an unfinished assessment on DSP because he was injured. DSP made the jump from juniors to the NHL. In his second year with his OHL club, DSP was able to make progress in scoring more goals. DSP had one more year of eligibility to play in the OHL, but he made the NHL club instead.

As for KP, as I've mentioned before, he's similar to Ryan. Ryan could do those things as well, but years later we still see Ryan want to dangle as oppose to cycling. Penner, Big Bert, and Kunie liked cycling. But hey, it's a good problem to have to have two players vie for that top LW spot. Loads better than knowing we have no talent there.

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08-20-2012, 06:25 PM
  #27
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How exactly does Ryan not have chemistry with the twins? IIRC, they were the best line in the league at one point. If anything, and im sure someone will dig up some stats and prove me wrong, Ryan seems like the odd man out because Getz and Perry always look for each other first imo. At times, I thought Ryan was kinda left out of the play when they did play together. Or maybe it was on purpose because as much as I love Ryan, he would already be scoring 45 goals/yr if he didnt have horrible finishing ability.

However, I Prefer your second lineup with DSP and Palmieri being switched.
Putting Ryan with Getzlaf and Perry has always been a bit forced and out of need. Ryan doesn't seamlessly fit with them. He naturally plays more of a finesse game than the cycling and grinding game Getzlaf and Perry favor. It worked okay for the short-term, but the longer he stayed with them the more obvious it was that Ryan wasn't the right fit.

As for being the "best line" when was that the case? There were discussions that included them as one of the best, but how much of that was based on potential and expectations? When I look at dominant three-man units, I think of combos like we saw in Vancouver, with the West Coast Express, and the Pizza line in Ottawa. That's a level that the RPG line never reached.

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08-20-2012, 07:01 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Hockey Duckie View Post
I believe that's an unfinished assessment on DSP because he was injured. DSP made the jump from juniors to the NHL. In his second year with his OHL club, DSP was able to make progress in scoring more goals. DSP had one more year of eligibility to play in the OHL, but he made the NHL club instead.

As for KP, as I've mentioned before, he's similar to Ryan. Ryan could do those things as well, but years later we still see Ryan want to dangle as oppose to cycling. Penner, Big Bert, and Kunie liked cycling. But hey, it's a good problem to have to have two players vie for that top LW spot. Loads better than knowing we have no talent there.
I think Palmieri is a lot closer to Kunitz than he is Ryan.

DSP wasn't eligible for the AHL. If he had been, I'm pretty confident he'd have spent last season there instead. I can understand Anaheim feeling the OHL wouldn't benefit DSP, given his physical maturity, but he didn't exactly blow people away at training camp. Personally, I felt like Anaheim pencilled him into a spot that was his to lose, where other young players would need to earn the spot. Him making the team doesn't say the same to me about him that it would most other players. The Ducks fast-tracked him.

As for what DSP showed, I was impressed with what he showed at the NHL level(which was much better than what he showed at camp), but he really didn't display himself as a top six quality skill player. He looked more like a complementary player who might fill that role, with the right players. I don't think his injury really plays a big role in what he showed. Offensively, he just didn't show a whole lot, and when talking about puck skills, I don't really see how a fractured foot would hold him back. He was decent enough, but based on what he's shown so far, his ability to create any kind of offense is likely going to come from him banging bodies and going to the dirty areas, and not from slick stickwork.

In that sense, Palmieri seems to make more sense on the top line, until proven otherwise. Palmieri has much better hands, is just as willing to get dirty, and has displayed better offensive instincts that, I think, leaves him better equipped to take advantage of playing with Getzlaf and Perry. Between the two, I think DSP would benefit more from playing with the two of them, while Getzlaf and Perry would benefit more from playing with Palmieri. Just my opinion based on what both have shown.

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Old
08-20-2012, 09:05 PM
  #29
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DSP - Getzlaf - Perry
Ryan - Holland- Selanne
Winnik - Koivu - Palmieri
Cogliano - Bonino - Beleskey

Beauchemin - Fowler
Allen - Sbisa
Lydman - Souray

Hiller

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Old
08-21-2012, 01:16 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
In that sense, Palmieri seems to make more sense on the top line, until proven otherwise. Palmieri has much better hands, is just as willing to get dirty, and has displayed better offensive instincts that, I think, leaves him better equipped to take advantage of playing with Getzlaf and Perry. Between the two, I think DSP would benefit more from playing with the two of them, while Getzlaf and Perry would benefit more from playing with Palmieri. Just my opinion based on what both have shown.
We still run into the same problem of forcing a player to be a different type of player a la Bobby Ryan. Both are of the sniper mentality and play. And as you said about Bobby, the longer he stayed on that line the more you noticed he didn't want to be part of it.

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08-21-2012, 01:37 AM
  #31
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It sounds silly to say, but I believe Palmieri has shown more than DSP at the professional level. Plus, as Sojourn has stated, I see Palmieri in more of a Kunitz mold than a Ryan mold, although I see Palmieri as less physical but with better hands. Towards the end of the season last year a lightbulb seemingly went off for KP and he started to get more physical and get in to the dirty areas.

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08-21-2012, 02:05 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Hockey Duckie View Post
We still run into the same problem of forcing a player to be a different type of player a la Bobby Ryan. Both are of the sniper mentality and play.
I have seen very little of Palmieri at lower levels but almost every scouting report I read said that he had a great shot and hockey sense, had agitating qualities and that he was willing to go into the corners and do the dirty work. When he first came up to Anaheim, he wasn't willing to do those things but by the end of the year, he was starting to look much more like the player he was advertised to be.

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08-21-2012, 02:21 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Duckie View Post
We still run into the same problem of forcing a player to be a different type of player a la Bobby Ryan. Both are of the sniper mentality and play. And as you said about Bobby, the longer he stayed on that line the more you noticed he didn't want to be part of it.
But he did say that his favorite center to play with, is Getzy, and only THEN Giroux

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Old
08-21-2012, 03:52 AM
  #34
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DSP-Getz-Perry
Ryan-Holland-Palmieri
Cogs-Koivu-Teemu
Winnik-Bonino-Beleskey

I see it that way...Palmieri isn't LW, so he is not an option for the first line, unless we will move Perry, but why we should move the best RW in the league...I would rather keep Teemu with Saku, it's not a perfect situation, but...

Beleskey and DSP can change place if it will be needed...I'm not sure about Holland, but we haven't got choice, just believe that he will be ok with Ryan and Palmieri...

I would rather trade Cogs for pick/picks and sign Andrei Kostitsyn, who can score +20 goals, but I'm pretty sure it is not Bob's plan...

Beauchemin - Fowler
Allen - Sbisa
Lydman - Souray

I hope that Vatanen will play some games at NHL level

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Old
08-21-2012, 04:45 AM
  #35
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master4071, Devo is RW, and Beleskey is LW. You mixed them both.

As for first line LW, i still think that Bobby is the best option we have at this point, to benefit the team. MAYBE Beleskey for 1/3 of the season. Per Boudreau, Cogs is thought to be in for top6 wing. Since he plays more on more on LW last year, i figure he`ll be put into 2nd line LW.

So,
Ryan-Getzlaf-Perry
Cogliano-Bonino-Selanne
Winnik-Koivu-Smith Pelly
Beleskey-Holland-Staubitz
McMillan/Palmieri depending on where the replacement is needed (top6 or bottom6 )

This lineup provides:
* good checking/energy line (in W-K-SP) which should take away some defensive pressure from our top 6 so they can focus more on offense, and hopefully allows our captain score more than 11 times in a season
* that 4th line (B-H-S) should (if all goes well) be able to punish opponents physically, with all loving throwing the body around and be able to fight.

Questionable in this lineup is:
* can Bonino be a good fit with speedy wingers? Koivu could/should be a better option offensive wise for 2nd line C, but for the sake of our 3d line - he should be put in 3d line to fill very important role.
* 4th line with Holland centering. He is not that good in the faceoff circle and have 4 game NHL experience.

The other option for lineup i figure could be built around the fact that Bobby have his own line, which one - we all remember from last year.

Beleskey-Getzlaf-Perry
Ryan-Bonino-Palmieri
Cogliano-Koivu-Selanne
Winnik-Holland-Smith Pelly

Provides:

* 3 scoring lines with The Big (BGP), The Young (Energetic) (RBP) and The Fast (CKS).
* again physical 4th line

Q:
* How good Beleskey fit on first line. Top opposition and a lot of minutes every night could be to much for him in long stretch.
* Again Holland

Maybe if Holly isn`t as good as expected (hoped) in the middle right away, Winnik is put there. Who knows.

The defense should be:

Beachemin-Fowler
Allen-Sbisa
Lydman-Souray

Not sure about the sides on bottom 4 though. All of them are used to play left side

* Our first pair from last season should see less minutes with our D upgrade (?) from last season
* the pairings are much bigger with 4 of them getting into the fights ~ 1 -2 times in the season.
* If we hold on to Lydman- Souray pair, it may benefit if Souray gets injured and Vatanen is called up. Allen-Sbisa sounds great fit to. Beach-C4 already have some chemistry.

Goalies:

Hiller
Fasth
JDD
Andersen

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Old
08-21-2012, 12:15 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Kalvinators View Post
master4071, Devo is RW, and Beleskey is LW. You mixed them both.
Devante Smith-Pelly can play left wing or right wing.

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Old
08-21-2012, 12:27 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by DucksTalk View Post
Devante Smith-Pelly can play left wing or right wing.
Maybe so. Well, i remember him some games with Getz and Perry, so maybe he is able to translate, but i`m pretty sure Beleskey is playing only on left wing.

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08-21-2012, 12:42 PM
  #38
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DSP-Getzlaf-Perry
Ryan-Holland-Palmieri
Winnik-Koivu-Selanne
Cogliano-Bonino-Staubitz
Beleskey-McMillan

Fowler-Beauch
Allen-Sbisa
Lydman-Souray
Guenin

Hiller
Fasth

Posted this in the trades/free agency thread, but I thought I'd post it here as well. To me this is our ideal roster going into camp, based on a couple variables (young players).

If Holland is as impressive in main camp as he was against his peers in the rookie scrimmages, I think the 2nd line job is his to lose. This would allow BB to roll 3 balanced scoring lines and create matchup problems for other teams. I'm high on Rakell and think he's a darkhorse for this role but I don't see the need to rush him.

I like the idea of Winnik beside Koivu and Selanne, I think his heady two-way game will fit in nicely beside those two as long as he's able to mesh with them in transition.

Basically how I see the 4th line right now is Bonino up the middle and Cogliano on the left, with Beleskey/McMillan/Staubitz fighting for ice time. Lasch could play his way onto the 4th line in camp as well.

I think Etem only has a chance of making this team if he blatantly outplays Palmieri in camp and earns a top 9 job. He'd be better off spending the year in the AHL learning the pro game.

If one of Lindholm or Vatanen plays there way onto the team in camp I'd expect to see Toni Lydman dealt to someone looking to shore up their back-end. No one else on the Ducks roster projects as a 7th d-man type except Guenin IMO.

Fasth is the clear-cut back-up in my view so let's hope he's ready for the role.

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08-21-2012, 01:07 PM
  #39
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If BB was being serious with Koivu being on the third line (a checking line), we will not see Teemu and Koivu together. I don't think there is any chance Teemu plays on a checking line. He isn't Recchi.

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08-21-2012, 01:31 PM
  #40
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Only option would be if we roll 3 scoring lines...

but i don`t believe it will happen with Winnik signing.

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08-21-2012, 02:38 PM
  #41
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Going off of Exit Dose's suggestion of trying Holland at wing, heres my out of the box lineup that I wouldnt mind tried

Holland-Getzlaf-Perry
Ryan-Cogliano-Selanne
Winnik-Koivu-DSP/Palmieri
Maroon-Bonino-Palmieri

Heres what I think will realistically happen.

Palmieri-Getzlaf-Perry
Ryan-Bonino/Holland-Selanne
Winnik-Koivu-DSP
Beleskey-Bonino/McMillan-Cogliano
Staubitz

Defense

Beauchemin-Fowler
Sbisa-Allen
Lydman-Souray

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Old
08-21-2012, 02:53 PM
  #42
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Seems like kind of a moot point. I don't think there will be hockey until at least Jan.

But by the end of the season I think something like this

Palmieri - Getz - Perry
Ryan - big hole - Selanne
Cogliano - Koivu - Winnik
Beleskey - Bonino/McMillan - DSP
Staubitz


Beauch - Fowler
Sbisa - Allen
Lydman - Vatanen
(Souray on the IR)

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08-21-2012, 03:34 PM
  #43
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In a fantasy keeper league, first year. Who is a better pick for now and the future, Etem or DSP? Will both make the team?

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08-21-2012, 03:56 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by keslerburrows View Post
In a fantasy keeper league, first year. Who is a better pick for now and the future, Etem or DSP? Will both make the team?
Now? DSP

Future? Etem

Doubt Etem makes the team this year unless he seriously outperforms Palmieri.

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08-21-2012, 03:59 PM
  #45
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Now? DSP

Future? Etem

Doubt Etem makes the team this year unless he seriously outperforms Palmieri.
So who do I pick? Where do you see DSP fitting this year? Top 6? Where do you see him fitting long term? Im leaning towards DSP but I'm not sure if he will be put in a scoring roll..

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08-21-2012, 04:05 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by keslerburrows View Post
So who do I pick? Where do you see DSP fitting this year? Top 6? Where do you see him fitting long term? Im leaning towards DSP but I'm not sure if he will be put in a scoring roll..
It's really a smart move to pick DSP. He may be as high as 1st line and pretty much sure thing in NHL. Etem would have to do amazing and Palmieri would have to do worse in order for Etem to be in the NHL all year.

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08-21-2012, 04:10 PM
  #47
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Cogliano-Koivu-Winnik is actually a quite likeable 3rd line. If only we could acquire a decent man to center Ryan-Teemu on 2nd line we should easily compete for a playoff spot.

Palmieri-Getzlaf-Perry
Ryan-Bonino-Selanne
Cogliano-Koivu-Winnik
Beleskey-McMillan/Holland-DSP

At least thats what I call rolling four lines. Could work.

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Old
08-21-2012, 04:21 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Kalvinators View Post
Per Boudreau, Cogs is thought to be in for top6 wing.
When did Boudreau ever say that? I don't see any room for Cogliano in the top 6.

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08-21-2012, 04:27 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by keslerburrows View Post
So who do I pick? Where do you see DSP fitting this year? Top 6? Where do you see him fitting long term? Im leaning towards DSP but I'm not sure if he will be put in a scoring roll..
He'll be in the top 9 this year which may include some time with Getzlaf and Perry. Long term he'll be a versatile top 9 guy who will probably be moved up and down the lineup.

Short term, definitely pick DSP. Long term DSP projects to be a 15-25 goal, 40-55 point guy where as Etem's upside is a lot higher although who knows if he reaches his potential.

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08-21-2012, 04:35 PM
  #50
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It's really a smart move to pick DSP. He may be as high as 1st line and pretty much sure thing in NHL. Etem would have to do amazing and Palmieri would have to do worse in order for Etem to be in the NHL all year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
He'll be in the top 9 this year which may include some time with Getzlaf and Perry. Long term he'll be a versatile top 9 guy who will probably be moved up and down the lineup.

Short term, definitely pick DSP. Long term DSP projects to be a 15-25 goal, 40-55 point guy where as Etem's upside is a lot higher although who knows if he reaches his potential.
Awesome thanks guys!

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