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Sharks invite Samsonov to training camp?

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Old
08-21-2012, 01:46 PM
  #26
CB Joe
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
Are the Sharks that desperate ?
Sharks only have a small window before they have to do some major retooling if they want to try and stay an elite team the West.

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08-21-2012, 01:46 PM
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Doesn't seem like a bad idea. It would reunite him with Thornton, although they might not necessarily play on the same line. If he's in shape after taking a year off without work, I say it's a low risk, high reward situation. The Sharks have been needing a scoring winger and since they haven't been able to work out a trade for one, Samsonov could still be one of the best out there in free agency. All assuming he gets a PTO and makes it.

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08-21-2012, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by CB Joe View Post
Sharks only have a small window before they have to do some major retooling if they want to try and stay an elite team the West.
I'd say we already are an elite team granted Havlat stays healthy. Great blue line, world class top-6. Niemi is a NHL #1 (not the best or worst). Only question I have is our bottom 6. This however is probably the best area to have holes to fill in (cheapest area in trade market). Who knows maybe Zeus will have a bounce back year and we won't have any problems.

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08-21-2012, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by SpinTheBlackCircle View Post
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sport...867/story.html

Larionov said his client Sergei Samsonov, the one-time Oilers winger, will be getting a tryout with the San Jose Sharks, if there is an NHL training camp. Samsonov, who was on the Oilersí 2006 team, didnít play at all last season.
I want an Eklund link, or it didn't happen.

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08-21-2012, 02:13 PM
  #30
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I think its a great idea. Wellwood fit into this system so great, I can see samsonov doing the same. Either on the first line with jumbo a.d patty, but even galiardi-Wingels-samsonlv looks better then last years rotating third line

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08-21-2012, 02:14 PM
  #31
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I am happy to see this. I hope he can convert this into a contract somewhere, I've always liked the guy. If you expect 30-40 points from him, it would be hard to be disappointed, but 60-70 is a real reach.

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08-21-2012, 04:08 PM
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His agent is not Igor Larionov ? it's Neil Abbott.

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08-21-2012, 04:09 PM
  #33
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According to CSNNE.comís Joe Haggerty, Samsonovís actual agent Neil Abbot says there is no training camp deal with the Sharks as of yet and that his client is speaking with many teams.

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08-21-2012, 04:14 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by tony d View Post
This should be interesting. If Samsonov plays to his full potential he could be a 65-70 point scorer and add a bit of a bite to the Sharks lineup.
If he had Gretzky as his C circa Oilers dynasty years, maybe.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CB Joe View Post
Sharks only have a small window before they have to do some major retooling if they want to try and stay an elite team the West.
So Samsonov is the answer?

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08-21-2012, 04:16 PM
  #35
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I thought Samsonov was awesome when he played for the Oilers 2006. Makes me super excited for Yakupov

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08-21-2012, 04:27 PM
  #36
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I've been a fan of Samsonov since he was a Bruin. I truly hope he gets back into the NHL next season. I think the Sharks would be a nice fit for him, even tho they have a bunch of LWs already. Maybe he could help out Anaheim or New Jersey if he doesn't fit with San Jose.

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08-21-2012, 04:57 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
Samsonov hasn't had a 50 point season since 2001-02.

I have a hard time thinking he'll even surpass that lower 50pt bar as a 34 year old, let alone 65-70pts, after having taken a year off, and having surpassed 40 points only once since the lockout.
Actually, he had a 53 point season in 05-06, which he split between Boston and Edmonton. And he put up 48 points in 08-09, which isn't 50 I admit, but it's pretty close.

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08-21-2012, 05:04 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
Actually, he had a 53 point season in 05-06, which he split between Boston and Edmonton. And he put up 48 points in 08-09, which isn't 50 I admit, but it's pretty close.
True, I must have been looking at his BOS and EDM stats separately.

Still, I think my point stands.

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08-21-2012, 05:12 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
True, I must have been looking at his BOS and EDM stats separately.

Still, I think my point stands.
I don't think he'll hit 70+ points. But if he both A) Stays healthy all season, and B) plays in the Sharks top 6 all season, I think he'll hit 50 points for sure. If he does both of those I would put him at probably 58-65 points, depending on who his line-mates are.

I think he would thrive on a SS - Marleau - Havlat 2nd line. If they did that, I think he puts up 18-22 goals, and probably 35-45 assists. If he got put on a line with JT, I think he's probably going to scrape in at just over 50 points.

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08-21-2012, 05:21 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
I don't think he'll hit 70+ points. But if he both A) Stays healthy all season, and B) plays in the Sharks top 6 all season, I think he'll hit 50 points for sure. If he does both of those I would put him at probably 58-65 points, depending on who his line-mates are.

I think he would thrive on a SS - Marleau - Havlat 2nd line. If they did that, I think he puts up 18-22 goals, and probably 35-45 assists. If he got put on a line with JT, I think he's probably going to scrape in at just over 50 points.
I just don't think he'll have enough game left in him, especially after not playing hockey at ALL last year, to be a top-6 player.

Also: even in a hypothetical scenario in which we assume he didn't miss an entire year of hockey, who would he be knocking out of San Jose's top-6? Clowe? Havlat? I'll take both of those guys ANY day over Samsonov, and twice on Sunday.

I like Samsonov and all, but a realistic best case scenario is that he returns to the NHL, his conditioning hasn't been at all affected by his year's sabbatical away from hockey, he still has some skill, and he can be a 30-ish-point guy on the 3rd line with a couple weeks on the 2nd line once the inevitable Havlat groin injury hits... and honestly, there's nothing wrong with that. The guy is 34 and was out of hockey last year. I think that's a very respectable goal.

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08-21-2012, 05:30 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
I just don't think he'll have enough game left in him, especially after not playing hockey at ALL last year, to be a top-6 player.

Also: even in a hypothetical scenario in which we assume he didn't miss an entire year of hockey, who would he be knocking out of San Jose's top-6? Clowe? Havlat? I'll take both of those guys ANY day over Samsonov, and twice on Sunday.

I like Samsonov and all, but a realistic best case scenario is that he returns to the NHL, his conditioning hasn't been at all affected by his year's sabbatical away from hockey, he still has some skill, and he can be a 30-ish-point guy on the 3rd line with a couple weeks on the 2nd line once the inevitable Havlat groin injury hits... and honestly, there's nothing wrong with that. The guy is 34 and was out of hockey last year. I think that's a very respectable goal.
Probably the whole idea of potentially adding someone like Samsonov is to get the Sharks 3 scoring lines and moving Marleau off of JT's wing and back to center. So something like:

Wingels - JT - Pavelski
SS - Marleau - Havlat
Clowe - Couture - Galiardi / Burish / Sheppard / Kennedy
McLaren / Mashinter / Galiardi / Handzus - Desi / Handzus - Burish / Desi / Sheppard / Kennedy

The Sharks have to ton of guys who can fill a 4th-line role. But they really need to get enough talent to create a higher-end 3rd scoring line. With Clowe and Couture they have that.

It's not perfect, and I'm not even saying it's likely. But adding Samsonov to a 3rd-line role doesn't work well with someone like Handzus as the 3rd-line C. SS will only be really effective in a scoring-line role with players who compliment his capabilities. The Sharks have 2 guys who should mesh with his playing style VERY well in Marleau and Havlat. I just don't know if he'll make the team, and if he does, if the coach would be willing to move Marleau.

Personally, I think the only way the Sharks stand a serious chance to win the Cup in their remaining window is move Marleau down to 2C with Havlat and probably Couture to 3C with Clowe (they have strong chemistry) and finding players who complement those sets a 1st line LW, 2nd line LW, and 3rd line RW).

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08-21-2012, 05:46 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
Probably the whole idea of potentially adding someone like Samsonov is to get the Sharks 3 scoring lines and moving Marleau off of JT's wing and back to center. So something like:

Wingels - JT - Pavelski
SS - Marleau - Havlat
Clowe - Couture - Galiardi / Burish / Sheppard / Kennedy
McLaren / Mashinter / Galiardi / Handzus - Desi / Handzus - Burish / Desi / Sheppard / Kennedy

The Sharks have to ton of guys who can fill a 4th-line role. But they really need to get enough talent to create a higher-end 3rd scoring line. With Clowe and Couture they have that.

It's not perfect, and I'm not even saying it's likely. But adding Samsonov to a 3rd-line role doesn't work well with someone like Handzus as the 3rd-line C. SS will only be really effective in a scoring-line role with players who compliment his capabilities. The Sharks have 2 guys who should mesh with his playing style VERY well in Marleau and Havlat. I just don't know if he'll make the team, and if he does, if the coach would be willing to move Marleau.

Personally, I think the only way the Sharks stand a serious chance to win the Cup in their remaining window is move Marleau down to 2C with Havlat and probably Couture to 3C with Clowe (they have strong chemistry) and finding players who complement those sets a 1st line LW, 2nd line LW, and 3rd line RW).
If I'm Couture's agent, and the Sharks decide to move Logan off the Sharks second line and onto the THIRD line in favor of adding a 34 year old, didn'y-play-in-the-NHL-last-year Sergei Freaking Samsonov, you'd better bet the next contract negotiations are gonna be a doozy.

If I'm a Shark fan, seeing Couture moved to the 3rd line as a result of adding Samsonov is probably going to spoil my month.

Almost any proposal that sees Couture as the 3rd line center is inherently faulty, IMO. If you're adamant in moving Marleau off Thornton's wing and moving him to center, he'd drop to the #3C spot, IMO. Or he'd be Couture's winger on the 2nd line.

Also: your left wing depth chart would be Wingels / Samsonov / Clowe? Wingels as your 1st line LW? TOMMY Wingels? I can't imagine a better way to alienate Clowe and lose him as a UFA.

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08-21-2012, 05:57 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
If I'm Couture's agent, and the Sharks decide to move Logan off the Sharks second line and onto the THIRD line in favor of adding a 34 year old, didn'y-play-in-the-NHL-last-year Sergei Freaking Samsonov, you'd better bet the next contract negotiations are gonna be a doozy.

If I'm a Shark fan, seeing Couture moved to the 3rd line as a result of adding Samsonov is probably going to spoil my month.

Almost any proposal that sees Couture as the 3rd line center is inherently faulty, IMO. If you're adamant in moving Marleau off Thornton's wing and moving him to center, he'd drop to the #3C spot, IMO. Or he'd be Couture's winger on the 2nd line.

Also: your left wing depth chart would be Wingels / Samsonov / Clowe? Wingels as your 1st line LW? TOMMY Wingels? I can't imagine a better way to alienate Clowe and lose him as a UFA.
Logan Couture has shown time and time again to give up personal goals for the team. He took a very healthy cut on the extension he signed last season because he knew that with Thornton and Marleau up front, the team would need him to take less to keep the team competitive. He also knows that those two (and Boyle) will be off the books when it's time for his next extension, and that he'll get paid then.

As a Sharks fan, I would love to see Couture or Pavelski or Marleau, I don't even care, as the third line center.

Personally, I'm sick of people, especially non-Sharks fans, acting like Couture is jesus. The reality is that he's just not that good. He's not on the level of Thornton or Marleau and he just isn't talented enough to ever be on their level, and he knows it.

We're probably going to lose Clowe, anyway, because I think he'll price himself out of our interest, so might as well gear up for one last serious run. And I think you severely underestimate Wingels. His underlying numbers last season were fantastic, just that he was the victim of poor linemates and bad luck, otherwise he'd have much better counting stats. I have no trouble believing he'd get 20 goals on JT's wing. He also has the defensive capabilities and mental awareness to stay with Thornton and Pavelski and allow them to keep taking the difficult shutdown matchups. Then have Marleau take the secondaries, and let Clowe and Couture dominate soft competition.

I like the plan personally. We don't need Samsonov to be a big bruiser. We have Clowe/Thornton/Marleau/Wingels as strong guys up front.

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08-21-2012, 06:03 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
If I'm Couture's agent, and the Sharks decide to move Logan off the Sharks second line and onto the THIRD line in favor of adding a 34 year old, didn'y-play-in-the-NHL-last-year Sergei Freaking Samsonov, you'd better bet the next contract negotiations are gonna be a doozy.
The next contract negotiations with Couture are in 2 more years, at the same time that Thornton, Marleau, and Pavelski all need to signed. And frankly, I don't think he's going to freak out of being dropped 1 line if it's still going to be a scoring line. That's kind of the whole point of dropping him. Not to mention that on the 3rd line behind Marleau he'd be facing weaker opponents and would probably put up better numbers, which would help his next contract.

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If I'm a Shark fan, seeing Couture moved to the 3rd line as a result of adding Samsonov is probably going to spoil my month.
Then I guess it's a good thing you're not a Sharks fan?? The fact is that nearly every Sharks fan knows they need to basically have a 3rd scoring line that is part of either a 1A/1B/2 or 1/2A/2B sequence of skill. If dropping Couture to the 3rd does that, then that's a good thing, not a bad thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
Almost any proposal that sees Couture as the 3rd line center is inherently faulty, IMO. If you're adamant in moving Marleau off Thornton's wing and moving him to center, he'd drop to the #3C spot, IMO. Or he'd be Couture's winger on the 2nd line.
I'm sorry, if Marleau is going back to center, he's the 2nd-line C. Couture is a great young player, but he's still not in Marleau's league. Also, Marleau and Havlat have extremely complimentary skill-sets that makes that pair a better 2nd-line, or even a #1 line over JT and Pavs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
Also: your left wing depth chart would be Wingels / Samsonov / Clowe? Wingels as your 1st line LW? TOMMY Wingels? I can't imagine a better way to alienate Clowe and lose him as a UFA.
Clowe is going to be lost no matter what. And honestly, I could give a rat's ass what Clowe thinks about playing on the 3rd-line with Couture. The fact is that the 1st line LW needs to have the speed to play the F1 role on a line with JT and Pavs. Clowe does not have that. Not to mention that he's a playmaker, not a scorer, and that he has never played well with JT despite several attempts. Clowe also doesn't fit with Marleau and Havlat in that he's too slow to keep up and his style of play does not fit with either of them. The player Clowe DOES mesh well with is Couture. So if Couture is on the 3rd, it makes sense to have Clowe with him.

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08-21-2012, 06:23 PM
  #45
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I really like the fit here and for me it makes a lot of sense. Samsonov's weaknesses and strengths seem to align pretty well here. The Sharks are a massive team and are constantly talking about getting faster. Samsonov has a lot of skill and wheels, but he needs the big linemates for space. I think this could work out very well, a great low risk move in my opinion.

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08-21-2012, 09:31 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
Probably the whole idea of potentially adding someone like Samsonov is to get the Sharks 3 scoring lines and moving Marleau off of JT's wing and back to center. So something like:

Wingels - JT - Couture
SS - Pavelski - Marleau
Clowe - Handzus - Havlat
Galiardi - Desi - Burish
extras Shep, Mashinter, and Kennedy.
Does this work for you guys? I know some of these guys COULD/SHOULD be one line higher but I've always wished Samsonov could be on this team.

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08-21-2012, 10:08 PM
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It makes alot of sense, since the Sharks are looking for depth.

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08-21-2012, 10:16 PM
  #48
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It's not going to hurt, but probably won't help much either.

San Jose feels like they're getting a little stale in terms of taking momentum and getting to the next level, especially with their core having already peaked, for the most part. They don't need to rip anything down or anything but they seem to be on that cruise control path. Maybe they can get a shakeup after a potential lockout to reinvigorate the franchise...

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08-21-2012, 10:22 PM
  #49
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Surprised he didn't sign for a KHL team.
Because he's Russian?

Samsonov has been significantly Americanized.

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08-21-2012, 10:45 PM
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He comes into where I work quite a bit in Troy, Michigan. I had to have asked him at least five times last year if any teams have contacted him and he'd always reply something along the lines of nothing worthwhile. And I would always tell him that's hard for me to believe because I know you can still play in the league.

Guy still looks in great shape and I've always wished Holland would contact him. But that would mean Holland actually knows how to make good moves, some sarcasm there.

Last I saw him was a couple days ago so it probably won't be for another week until I see him again, in any event I'm definitely going to ask him if the Sharks have contacted him. I also want to ask him how he feels about the lockout and what it was like between the owners and players. And he is a nice guy so I'm sure he'll give me something, at least on the lockout. Todd Bertuzzi, on the other hand, I've been able to get about 10 words out of him about anything.

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