HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > San Jose Sharks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Off-season Armchair GM Thread Part IX

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-21-2012, 03:58 PM
  #151
NWShark*
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,714
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitten Mittons View Post
Well to be fair, Samsonov would probably make $6 million less and we'd still have Pavelski or Couture.


This. ...and Demers and our 1st and whatever other picks we would have had to include to land Nash. He wasn't coming cheap to us like he did to NY.

NWShark* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 04:06 PM
  #152
hohosaregood
Drunken Snacking
 
hohosaregood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 5,901
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWShark View Post
This. ...and Demers and our 1st and whatever other picks we would have had to include to land Nash. He wasn't coming cheap to us like he did to NY.
It was still an okay trade for Columbus though. They have a lot of forward and defense depth but their goaltending is still pretty questionable. I'm really hoping the best for them, although it'd be nice for them to get Mackinnon next year.

hohosaregood is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 04:32 PM
  #153
MadmanSJ
Know Your Onion!
 
MadmanSJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Jose
Country: United States
Posts: 1,317
vCash: 500
NW are you just waiting for me to respond? Haha I love the commitment

MadmanSJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 04:37 PM
  #154
NWShark*
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,714
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadmanSJ View Post
NW are you just waiting for me to respond? Haha I love the commitment
LOL! Nope, just thought it was funny so now it's how I spell his name. It's just our little joke now.

NWShark* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 04:46 PM
  #155
Barrie22
Shark fan in hiding
 
Barrie22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,411
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitten Mittons View Post
Well to be fair, Samsonov would probably make $6 million less and we'd still have Pavelski or Couture.
i wouldn't care if samsonov paid the sharks 30 million dollars to play for them, he is useless at every aspect of a team game. he is a one trick pony which he is not even really good at to begin with.

there is a reason that samsonov has done nothing after his rookie season, it is because once teams started to take notes and teams started to take away his time and space he has no other skill other then stick handling. he is a horrible passer, his shot is average at best to, he doesn't have the size to hit, he doesn't have the size to hold onto the puck for possession.

i would take nash with any trade needed to get him (minus couture), then have samsonov on this team at 1 million a year. heck i would take semenov at forward before i would take samsonov.


Last edited by Barrie22: 08-21-2012 at 04:55 PM.
Barrie22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 05:34 PM
  #156
Vaasa
Registered User
 
Vaasa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 8,318
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
He'd be a good fit with Marleau, Couture or Pavs as center. Any center who can be a shoot first guy.
Actually, I think Samsonov would thrive in a Samsonov - Marleau - Havlat line. Samsonov always had amazing puck-handling skills, and while he was more of a passer, he's got a pretty good shot when he uses it. But put him on a line with some faster skaters who can take advantage of his speed and puck-handling skills, and it he could really thrive.

But he's had some injury and effort issues, that's for sure. I am more than willing to accept him on a try-out basis in camp. Especially if he's fully healthy.

Vaasa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 05:45 PM
  #157
hohosaregood
Drunken Snacking
 
hohosaregood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 5,901
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
i wouldn't care if samsonov paid the sharks 30 million dollars to play for them, he is useless at every aspect of a team game. he is a one trick pony which he is not even really good at to begin with.

there is a reason that samsonov has done nothing after his rookie season, it is because once teams started to take notes and teams started to take away his time and space he has no other skill other then stick handling. he is a horrible passer, his shot is average at best to, he doesn't have the size to hit, he doesn't have the size to hold onto the puck for possession.

i would take nash with any trade needed to get him (minus couture), then have samsonov on this team at 1 million a year. heck i would take semenov at forward before i would take samsonov.
There's probably a better reason he became so average was how he basically missed a whole year due to a broken wrist. Then he probably just lost confidence and motivation when he realized he couldn't do what he used to be able to.

hohosaregood is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 05:50 PM
  #158
Vaasa
Registered User
 
Vaasa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 8,318
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
i wouldn't care if samsonov paid the sharks 30 million dollars to play for them, he is useless at every aspect of a team game. he is a one trick pony which he is not even really good at to begin with.

there is a reason that samsonov has done nothing after his rookie season, it is because once teams started to take notes and teams started to take away his time and space he has no other skill other then stick handling. he is a horrible passer, his shot is average at best to, he doesn't have the size to hit, he doesn't have the size to hold onto the puck for possession.

i would take nash with any trade needed to get him (minus couture), then have samsonov on this team at 1 million a year. heck i would take semenov at forward before i would take samsonov.
Umm, who are you talking about?

97-98 22g 25a 47p in 82 games (rookie season)
98-99 25g 26a 51p in 79 games
00-01 29g 46a 75p in 82 games
01-02 29g 41a 70p in 74 games
05-06 23g 30a 53p in 74 games (split btw Boston and Edmonton)
08-09 16g 32a 48p in 81 games (playing partly on the 3rd line IIRC)

In 76 playoffs games of 7 seasons he has 18a, 29a, 47p for .62ppg. Even in 10-11, which he split btw Carolina and Florida, he was still a 40 point player. And that was despite playing 3rd-4th line (11-15 minutes per night) minutes in Carolina. Once he got to Florida and was playing top 6 minutes (17-21 minutes a night), in 20 games he put up 3g and 11a for 0.85ppg (on a new time with new line-mates to boot).

Samsonov is small and does not play a physical game. But if you think he's a terrible passer, you just haven't seen the guy play much. And "average" shots aren't usually ~20g per season players (if they have a fully healthy season). Heck, even in his injury-riddled seasons, of which there have been quite a few, Samsonov has gotten pretty close to 20 goals in most of them.

Vaasa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 06:09 PM
  #159
TheJuxtaposer
#Shorks
 
TheJuxtaposer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 27,086
vCash: 1379
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
Actually, I think Samsonov would thrive in a Samsonov - Marleau - Havlat line. Samsonov always had amazing puck-handling skills, and while he was more of a passer, he's got a pretty good shot when he uses it. But put him on a line with some faster skaters who can take advantage of his speed and puck-handling skills, and it he could really thrive.

But he's had some injury and effort issues, that's for sure. I am more than willing to accept him on a try-out basis in camp. Especially if he's fully healthy.
Galiardi-Thornton-Pavelski
Samsonov-Marleau-Havlat
Clowe-Couture-Wingels
XXX-Desjardins-Burish

Also looks like a solid lineup to me.

But ignore Barrie, he's still ******** that we didn't get Nash, apparently.

TheJuxtaposer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 06:21 PM
  #160
Vaasa
Registered User
 
Vaasa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 8,318
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Galiardi-Thornton-Pavelski
Samsonov-Marleau-Havlat
Clowe-Couture-Wingels
XXX-Desjardins-Burish

Also looks like a solid lineup to me.

But ignore Barrie, he's still ******** that we didn't get Nash, apparently.
I wouldn't put Gally anywhere near the top line. He hasn't impressed me at all so far. If you are trying one of the youngsters there, it's Wingels. That top line without Marleau would need someone to play the F1 role, so they need speed and a bit of physical edge. That's Wingels. And he's better defensively than Gally is.

So:

Wingels - JT - Pavs
SS - Marleau - Havlat
Clowe - Couture / Handzus - Gally / Shephard / Kennedy / Burish / Couture
McLaren / Mashinter / Handzus -Desi - Burish / Kennedy / Gally

Vaasa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 06:22 PM
  #161
CommanderShepard15
Eberle=Clutch
 
CommanderShepard15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,332
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Galiardi-Thornton-Pavelski
Samsonov-Marleau-Havlat
Clowe-Couture-Wingels
XXX-Desjardins-Burish

Also looks like a solid lineup to me.

But ignore Barrie, he's still ******** that we didn't get Nash, apparently.
drop Galliardi to line 4, and fine me a first line winger, and then i'll begin to believe again.

CommanderShepard15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 06:25 PM
  #162
Vaasa
Registered User
 
Vaasa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 8,318
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thLinePlug View Post
drop Galliardi to line 4, and fine me a first line winger, and then i'll begin to believe again.
You can always put Couture on the top line, like this:

Couture - JT - Pavs
SS - Marleau - Havlat
Clowe - Handzus - Wingels
Gally - Desi - Burish

with McLaren, Mashinter, Shephard, Kennedy and others like Stahlberg and Oleksuk maybe battling it out for the extra forward roster spots.

Personally, I prefer Wingels on the top line and Couture on the 3rd because it gives the Sharks 3 very effective scoring lines.

Vaasa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 06:25 PM
  #163
NWShark*
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,714
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
i wouldn't care if samsonov paid the sharks 30 million dollars to play for them, he is useless at every aspect of a team game. he is a one trick pony which he is not even really good at to begin with.

there is a reason that samsonov has done nothing after his rookie season, it is because once teams started to take notes and teams started to take away his time and space he has no other skill other then stick handling. he is a horrible passer, his shot is average at best to, he doesn't have the size to hit, he doesn't have the size to hold onto the puck for possession.

i would take nash with any trade needed to get him (minus couture), then have samsonov on this team at 1 million a year. heck i would take semenov at forward before i would take samsonov.

I'm sorry but you have no clue. He was pretty important part of the Edmonton team that went to the finals. I agree he's a risk and hasn't had a great career but he's easily worth a tryout. Your characterization of his passing and his shot are just ludicrous...

NWShark* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 06:27 PM
  #164
Barrie22
Shark fan in hiding
 
Barrie22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,411
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Galiardi-Thornton-Pavelski
Samsonov-Marleau-Havlat
Clowe-Couture-Wingels
XXX-Desjardins-Burish

Also looks like a solid lineup to me.

But ignore Barrie, he's still ******** that we didn't get Nash, apparently.
nah, obviously i think he would of helped the sharks (if they were able to get such a cheap trade like the rangers).

i was never really in the get nash at all costs bunch, i just thought that thornton and him would still look amazing together (which i'm guessing we will find out this season if there is a lockout).

Barrie22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 06:28 PM
  #165
NWShark*
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,714
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
Umm, who are you talking about?

97-98 22g 25a 47p in 82 games (rookie season)
98-99 25g 26a 51p in 79 games
00-01 29g 46a 75p in 82 games
01-02 29g 41a 70p in 74 games
05-06 23g 30a 53p in 74 games (split btw Boston and Edmonton)
08-09 16g 32a 48p in 81 games (playing partly on the 3rd line IIRC)

In 76 playoffs games of 7 seasons he has 18a, 29a, 47p for .62ppg. Even in 10-11, which he split btw Carolina and Florida, he was still a 40 point player. And that was despite playing 3rd-4th line (11-15 minutes per night) minutes in Carolina. Once he got to Florida and was playing top 6 minutes (17-21 minutes a night), in 20 games he put up 3g and 11a for 0.85ppg (on a new time with new line-mates to boot).

Samsonov is small and does not play a physical game. But if you think he's a terrible passer, you just haven't seen the guy play much. And "average" shots aren't usually ~20g per season players (if they have a fully healthy season). Heck, even in his injury-riddled seasons, of which there have been quite a few, Samsonov has gotten pretty close to 20 goals in most of them.
Those pesky facts ruin a good rant everytime...

NWShark* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 06:31 PM
  #166
NWShark*
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,714
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thLinePlug View Post
drop Galliardi to line 4, and fine me a first line winger, and then i'll begin to believe again.


If TJ finds his game and starts playing the way he did against the sharks in the playoffs a couple years ago he'll be in the top 6 as an F1.

NWShark* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 06:38 PM
  #167
NWShark*
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,714
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
You can always put Couture on the top line, like this:

Couture - JT - Pavs
SS - Marleau - Havlat
Clowe - Handzus - Wingels
Gally - Desi - Burish

with McLaren, Mashinter, Shephard, Kennedy and others like Stahlberg and Oleksuk maybe battling it out for the extra forward roster spots.

Personally, I prefer Wingels on the top line and Couture on the 3rd because it gives the Sharks 3 very effective scoring lines.
I hate Pavs and Juicy with thorNton... that lines needs a burner and they are good to go. Just not enough speed and not physical enough IMO. That second line is insane and would probably end up being our true first line. the 3rd line will get killed skating wise. If clowe stays he can't play with Zeus.

Adding SS is a conundrum because it adds another small non physical forward. Each line really needs someone willing to bang some bodies to help free up pucks IMO.


Last edited by NWShark*: 08-22-2012 at 03:26 AM.
NWShark* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 07:12 PM
  #168
TheJuxtaposer
#Shorks
 
TheJuxtaposer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 27,086
vCash: 1379
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
nah, obviously i think he would of helped the sharks (if they were able to get such a cheap trade like the rangers).

i was never really in the get nash at all costs bunch, i just thought that thornton and him would still look amazing together (which i'm guessing we will find out this season if there is a lockout).
Well I personally think it was a good trade for the Jackets. Dubinsky and Anisimov were 2/3rds of an elite two-way checking line for the rangers two years ago. They both eat very difficult minutes and are great possession players. Erixon is a strong two-way prospect, and I have a sneaking suspicion that the Rangers will end up significantly lower in the standings next season.

Nash is a negative possession player in easy minutes. Not the type of player that boosts team play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
I wouldn't put Gally anywhere near the top line. He hasn't impressed me at all so far. If you are trying one of the youngsters there, it's Wingels. That top line without Marleau would need someone to play the F1 role, so they need speed and a bit of physical edge. That's Wingels. And he's better defensively than Gally is.

So:

Wingels - JT - Pavs
SS - Marleau - Havlat
Clowe - Couture / Handzus - Gally / Shephard / Kennedy / Burish / Couture
McLaren / Mashinter / Handzus -Desi - Burish / Kennedy / Gally
Galiardi didn't impress me much either, but apparently he was dealing with a significant back injury and never got the hang of the Sharks system, so I wouldn't count him out. Also, he's a good skater, decent defensively, and plays physical. I think he could be a good forechecker on their lines. Remember, however much he benefitted from percentages, Galiardi had by far his best season on Paul Stastny's wing.

Also, Galiardi is expected to be in a top-9 role, according to Kurz. Why not with Thornton and Pavelski?

Also, something that occurred to me, is Marleau still the primary forechecker on that 2nd line? He is the fastest and (sadly) the most physical player of he, SS, and Havlat.

Personally, I think Wingels is a good fit with Clowe/Couture. He did score 4 points in his ten games with those two (part of the time just Couture), albeit two in one game. I also think he and Clowe would be very good protectors for Couture.

TheJuxtaposer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 07:24 PM
  #169
Vaasa
Registered User
 
Vaasa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 8,318
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Also, something that occurred to me, is Marleau still the primary forechecker on that 2nd line? He is the fastest and (sadly) the most physical player of he, SS, and Havlat.
If Marleau is back at center, I would expect Havlat as the fore-checker. Like Marleau he's 6'2, but 210 instead of 220. But that's still fine for a fore-checker. But with a line of SS-PM-MH I would not expect much in the way of dump-and-chase, so the F1 would be doing a lot less getting smashed around the boards. With that line, either PM and MH could be the main forechecker on defense, and on offense I would just expect them to carry it into the zone. With their combined speed, not many defenses in the league would even think of trying play them in the neutral or high in the offensive zone. And with SS puck-handling skills, he can easily carry it into the zone and pass off if necessary.

Vaasa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 08:38 PM
  #170
TheJuxtaposer
#Shorks
 
TheJuxtaposer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 27,086
vCash: 1379
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
If Marleau is back at center, I would expect Havlat as the fore-checker. Like Marleau he's 6'2, but 210 instead of 220. But that's still fine for a fore-checker. But with a line of SS-PM-MH I would not expect much in the way of dump-and-chase, so the F1 would be doing a lot less getting smashed around the boards. With that line, either PM and MH could be the main forechecker on defense, and on offense I would just expect them to carry it into the zone. With their combined speed, not many defenses in the league would even think of trying play them in the neutral or high in the offensive zone. And with SS puck-handling skills, he can easily carry it into the zone and pass off if necessary.
Good to hear your thoughts, as always Vaasa.

TheJuxtaposer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 09:37 PM
  #171
MadmanSJ
Know Your Onion!
 
MadmanSJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Jose
Country: United States
Posts: 1,317
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWShark View Post
I hate Pavs and Juicy with thorton... that lines needs a burner and they are good to go. Just not enough speed and not physical enough IMO. That second line is insane and would probably end up being our true first line. the 3rd line will get killed skating wise. If clowe stays he can't play with Zeus.

Adding SS is a conundrum because it adds another small non physical forward. Each line really needs someone willing to bang some bodies to help free up pucks IMO.
[IMG]http://www.gifsoup.com/view5/2265017/chris-farley-son-of-a-*****-o.gif[/IMG]

MadmanSJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 09:48 PM
  #172
Pinkfloyd
Registered User
 
Pinkfloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Roseville
Country: United States
Posts: 34,275
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWShark View Post
So Burrish could be decent on the 3rd line with a couple of players who are better point producers. Good possession numbers are helpful in that regard right? According to FTF he's great at limiting the oppositions shots which I think would be helpful on the 3rd line.

About ThorNton, I didn't say that anyone ragged on him about his advanced stats... I actually said the opposite.
Burish had decent teammates in Dallas and couldn't get the points. One guy isn't going to drive possession on a line either so if he doesn't get legitimate help, it's not going to matter. Wingels and Burish will be a solid duo in this regard but if they're being centered by Handzus, they will be dead meat.

As for Thornton, I didn't say that you did. I merely stated what people do rag on him for and quite a bit of it is justified regardless of his advanced stats.

Pinkfloyd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-22-2012, 12:58 AM
  #173
Nighthock
**** the Kings...
 
Nighthock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Reno, NV
Country: United States
Posts: 15,950
vCash: 500
So what's the deal with Petrecki? He was given a QO ... when is the deadline to sign him? Anyone know?

Nighthock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-22-2012, 01:03 AM
  #174
WTFetus
Moderator
Most popular combo
 
WTFetus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Francisco
Country: United States
Posts: 12,144
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nighthock View Post
So what's the deal with Petrecki? He was given a QO ... when is the deadline to sign him? Anyone know?
December 1st.

WTFetus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-22-2012, 01:56 AM
  #175
NWShark*
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,714
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
If Marleau is back at center, I would expect Havlat as the fore-checker. Like Marleau he's 6'2, but 210 instead of 220. But that's still fine for a fore-checker. But with a line of SS-PM-MH I would not expect much in the way of dump-and-chase, so the F1 would be doing a lot less getting smashed around the boards. With that line, either PM and MH could be the main forechecker on defense, and on offense I would just expect them to carry it into the zone. With their combined speed, not many defenses in the league would even think of trying play them in the neutral or high in the offensive zone. And with SS puck-handling skills, he can easily carry it into the zone and pass off if necessary.


I'm sold, you got me excited to see that line play...

NWShark* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:54 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.