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Erik Karlsson in a 1-for-1 trade scenario

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Old
08-21-2012, 08:49 PM
  #326
jbeck5
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Originally Posted by Sevren View Post
Let's just say that if I had to build a cup contender from scratch, I'd pick Weber or Chara (or lets say a pre-injury Pronger) over Karlsson as my #1 d-man. I'd try to pick Karlsson as well if I could afford it, but he would not be my #1 d-man. He isn't the one I'd want to match against Crosby, Ovechkin or the Sedin brothers in the playoffs. So I just can't value him as high as Weber. It does not bother me that Karlsson might get 20 more points in the regular season. If I'm a cup contender, his 20 points aren't going to be critical in whether or not I make the playoffs. And when come the playoffs and things get more physical, interference is more or less called anymore, the game isn't as wide-open anymore because the players are on a leash and 4th lines don't get as much ice time as they do during the regular season, I want someone like Weber to shut down the other team's 1st line. That's just my opinion and time will tell if Karlsson is a true #1 d-man who can deliver in the playoffs, but from what I've seen so far I'd think Weber could do a better job than Karlsson.
The fact you would take a 36 year old pronger over a 22 year old karlsson that just won the norris is baffling. You pick pronger and you have nothing in 2 years...you pick karlsson, and you have a top3Dman for the foreseeable future. Even if pronger is 10% better for 1-2 years, then you have another 10-15 years of karlsson or nothing of pronger. To say 2 years of pronger>10-15 years of karlsson is silly.

If i'm fantasy picking a team as a GM, in no way are any of my top picks a player over 30 years old to build my team around. I would pick young players like stamkos, karlsson, price etc...not pronger and selanne who are a year or 2 from retirement.

Also, you quoted me, but responded to nothing i said. I mentioned karlsson's age in giving him more value. He has more years left. Then you responded with nothing of the sort by mentioning karlsson getting more points but not being as good defensively. Why did you have to quote my post about age to tell me something about off vs def?

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08-21-2012, 09:39 PM
  #327
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By the end of next year the answer to this will be Pietrangelo

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08-21-2012, 09:46 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Crabovski View Post
By the end of next year the answer to this will be Pietrangelo
+1

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08-21-2012, 09:52 PM
  #329
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By the end of next year the answer to this will be Pietrangelo
i think now

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08-21-2012, 09:57 PM
  #330
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I'd take both McDonagh and Petriangelo over Karlsson

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08-21-2012, 10:02 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by SomE View Post
I'd take both McDonagh and Petriangelo over Karlsson
lol well yeah, but it's close. It's supposed to be 1 for 1 though...not 2 for 1.

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08-21-2012, 10:07 PM
  #332
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Karlson may get a ton of points, but after the play reaches his own end, his play is below average, which should bring down his value.

Don't get me wrong, he is an amazing talent, but I don't think he is as good as people are making him out to be.

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08-21-2012, 10:10 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
Again, the facts are:

- he won the Norris
- he had by FAR the most poInts amogst defenseman
- he had a better +/- per 60 then -all top nominees but Chara
- he had a better relative +/- per 60 then all nominees

Those are all facts that support the statement that he was the best defenseman in the NHL this year, some statistical in nature and some empirical (Norris).

Again I'm asking what are the facts that suggest Weber, Pietrangelo, or Chara were better than Karlsson this year?

The answer is there are none. The fact is people who are making the claim that Karlsson wasn't the best this season are arguing that stance strictly from opinion: which is fine; statistics don't capture everything, but please acknowledge the fact that you guys are arguing against facts from a place of complete subjectivity.

You guys are the ones making the bold statements: not us.

This whole post is with regards to THIS YEAR, as I said earlier, plenty of arguments could be made as to who is going to be better next year or the year after that.
I cant believe how many people are only considering one side of the ice. Its kind of important for a defenceman to play defence!

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08-21-2012, 10:11 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by SomE View Post
I'd take both McDonagh and Petriangelo over Karlsson
Really? I love McDonagh, but Karlsson makes us an even more dynamic team. He's Brian Leetch 2.0. With the defense pairings, you can finally slot DZ into the top 4 since he have two lefties and two righties.

Staal-Karlsson
DZ-Girardi

Problem is to fill out that bottom pair though.

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08-21-2012, 10:13 PM
  #335
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How is this thread so long? It should have ended at the first post which should have been "why would Ottawa ever want to trade him right now, its not happening so why discuss it"

gg

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08-21-2012, 10:15 PM
  #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffman955 View Post
Karlson may get a ton of points, but after the play reaches his own end, his play is below average, which should bring down his value.

Don't get me wrong, he is an amazing talent, but I don't think he is as good as people are making him out to be.

Fans seem to have this assumption that because Karlsson is so strong offensively, and that he doesn't hit, he is below average in his own zone; But, after watching him play extensively last season, that is so wrong. His foot speed is incredible and his ability to close down space is probably the best in the league. Karlsson led the league in takeaway last year. His defensive game will continue to develop and get better as well.

For as many people as you think are over-rating Karlsson, there is actually MORE that downplay his incredible season last year and use the same ol' lame excuse that he's poor in his own end. I assure you that assumption is wrong. Saying he is 'below average' is actually hilarious if you really think that.

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08-21-2012, 10:24 PM
  #337
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In terms of value the 2 easiest comparisons would be Doughty and Pietrangelo. Other than that RNH, Backstrom, Staal, and Price would be other good comparisons.

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Old
08-21-2012, 10:24 PM
  #338
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Karlsson is a Top 5-10 defenseman at the moment depending on how you view his defense.

He'd be worth a top 10 C + IMO, simply because I feel #1D are more valuable than #1C (if you leave out the elites like Crosby, Malkin etc).

Backstrom + Forsberg ---> Karlsson + 1st type of deal.

Close to 1-1.

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Old
08-21-2012, 10:32 PM
  #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi View Post
Karlsson is a Top 5-10 defenseman at the moment depending on how you view his defense.

He'd be worth a top 10 C + IMO, simply because I feel #1D are more valuable than #1C (if you leave out the elites like Crosby, Malkin etc).

Backstrom + Forsberg ---> Karlsson + 1st type of deal.

Close to 1-1.
Why include Forsberg and the 1st at all? Backstrom for Forsberg straight up would be even, imo.

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Old
08-21-2012, 10:36 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by Jason12 View Post
I cant believe how many people are only considering one side of the ice. Its kind of important for a defenceman to play defence!
Umm my post did consider both ends of the ice...

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Old
08-21-2012, 11:50 PM
  #341
Laoghaire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi View Post
Karlsson is a Top 5-10 defenseman at the moment depending on how you view his defense.

He'd be worth a top 10 C + IMO, simply because I feel #1D are more valuable than #1C (if you leave out the elites like Crosby, Malkin etc).

Backstrom + Forsberg ---> Karlsson + 1st type of deal.

Close to 1-1.
Karlsson is a top 1 to top 1 defenceman based on the Norris.

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Old
08-22-2012, 12:01 AM
  #342
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Yeah... this one is going no where else, and I'm not about to clean it/post another warning only to come back to a thread that is still largely off topic. We're done here. Take this discussion to another of the more appropriate Karlsson threads...

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