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Old
08-22-2012, 01:32 AM
  #26
Crymson
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The Wings give up 20 goals for a late 3rd and a late 4th. No thanks.

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Originally Posted by MBauer View Post
The organization would want more, but i can tell you most of the the fans want him gone. We pretty much see him as a guy who is taking a roster spot from one of young guys. If he didn't have problems with his knees and was put on the 3rd line then I wouldn't mind him.
Speak for yourself. The guy is a warrior and is good for 20+ goals when he's healthy. I'm a big fan, as are many others Wings fans I know.

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Old
08-22-2012, 01:39 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
I figured with Richards, Stepan and Kreider all being able, it could make Boyle an expendable piece
Kreider's a left wing.

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Old
08-22-2012, 10:06 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by wingz rule View Post
Not really they have 16 or so forwards going into next season. The only thing is I'm pretty sure we could at least get a second for Cleary.
and Wings are ready to go with their current D???

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08-22-2012, 10:59 AM
  #29
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and Wings are ready to go with their current D???
no they still need one more d-man, but getting rid of cleary just helps clear up the log jam in forwards a bit. Why would we want to add to that problem?

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Old
08-22-2012, 11:39 AM
  #30
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I would do that deal from the Rangers perspective.

Yes, Kreider's best position is LW, but he has and can play center and since I am of the belief that we will see JT Miller before the season is out as the teams 3rd line pivot, this is a deal I do easily.

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Old
08-22-2012, 11:52 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I would do that deal from the Rangers perspective.

Yes, Kreider's best position is LW, but he has and can play center and since I am of the belief that we will see JT Miller before the season is out as the teams 3rd line pivot, this is a deal I do easily.
This^ is closest to my thinking.
Value ballpark = overall, we if we upgrade Boyle-Rupp could be worth it.

I have said we should be open to try Kreider at C at some point to best exploit his speed, although I did agree with an explanation provided back that the way Torts system is set up, this would not be as much as otherwise, so unless there is an emergency, maybe CK at C is something we try after he's fully comfortable and set at LW, to get some versatility, in case of injuries shaping the roster.

We should not be afraid if JT Miller, and possibly even to a lesser extent Yogan earn roster spots, giving them a go at C. Yogan would be 4C, though we have Halpern for the f/os. Stepan is the incumbent 2c, but on a line where Hagelin/Kreider on the left and Callahan on the right skate circles around him, if Miller is as advertised a speedy playmaker who can do the pivot thing, he should get that line where speed across the board = best fit, even if it is 2nd line with him at 2c.

Stepan would be upgrade at 3C, though we have options if a deal bringing overpayment is suggested.

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Old
08-22-2012, 12:03 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
This^ is closest to my thinking.
Value ballpark = overall, we if we upgrade Boyle-Rupp could be worth it.

I have said we should be open to try Kreider at C at some point to best exploit his speed, although I did agree with an explanation provided back that the way Torts system is set up, this would not be as much as otherwise, so unless there is an emergency, maybe CK at C is something we try after he's fully comfortable and set at LW, to get some versatility, in case of injuries shaping the roster.

We should not be afraid if JT Miller, and possibly even to a lesser extent Yogan earn roster spots, giving them a go at C. Yogan would be 4C, though we have Halpern for the f/os. Stepan is the incumbent 2c, but on a line where Hagelin/Kreider on the left and Callahan on the right skate circles around him, if Miller is as advertised a speedy playmaker who can do the pivot thing, he should get that line where speed across the board = best fit, even if it is 2nd line with him at 2c.

Stepan would be upgrade at 3C, though we have options if a deal bringing overpayment is suggested.
the problem with Kreider at Center is that you have to think the game more than if you were playing Wing.

Kreider has speed and while that's nice, I would prefer to have him play the game where things are natural for him. I don't think that Center is the best position for him in that regards.

I would try him there for a bit, but it's not the long-term goal. He's a LW'er first and foremost that can spot up at center for a short period of time. I also believe that Hansen (being more of a playmaking RW'er than a scoring RW'er) could also take a few games at center until Miller is ready for NHL action (which I think eill be arounf the 40 game mark).

Stepan is not a 3rd line center. He has already established that he is a top 6 player.

When completely healthy after Millers call up

Nash - Richards - Gaborik
Kreider - Stepan - Callahan
Hagelin - Miller - Hansen
Cleary - Halpern - Pyatt

Size, speed, skill on every line

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Old
08-22-2012, 12:15 PM
  #33
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Shuffling the deck of roll players while simultaneously adding salary and losing picks, I don't think that helps the Rangers at all.

Dubinsky and AA didn't contribute much to the Rangers offense so switching them out for Nash improves the Rangers offense, not reducing it. Further, if Nash and Richards are primary scoring, depth scoring comes from guys like Hagelin, Krieder, Stepan, and Callahan. Oh then there's some guy named Gaborik will be added to the mix for the 2nd half of the season. Guys like Boyle and Pyatt are ideal 3rd liners who can chip in double digit goals. And if you get a total of double digit scoring from your 4th line, you're doing well and that's surely something Rupp, Halpern and Asham can do. Rangers will have a improved offense this year compared to last.

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Old
08-22-2012, 12:44 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
Shuffling the deck of roll players while simultaneously adding salary and losing picks, I don't think that helps the Rangers at all.

Dubinsky and AA didn't contribute much to the Rangers offense so switching them out for Nash improves the Rangers offense, not reducing it. Further, if Nash and Richards are primary scoring, depth scoring comes from guys like Hagelin, Krieder, Stepan, and Callahan. Oh then there's some guy named Gaborik will be added to the mix for the 2nd half of the season. Guys like Boyle and Pyatt are ideal 3rd liners who can chip in double digit goals. And if you get a total of double digit scoring from your 4th line, you're doing well and that's surely something Rupp, Halpern and Asham can do. Rangers will have a improved offense this year compared to last.
More of an improvement in role players.

Hansen has been more consistent a producer than Boyle and while Boyle may have the slight edge defensively where Hansen is no slouch, I trust Hansen more offensively.

Cleary over Rupp? No brainer.

The pick? a 4th rounder. no major loss.

Salary?

Hansen - 1.35
Cleary - 2.8

total - 4.15

Boyle - 1.7
Rupp - 1.5

Total - 3.2

less than a million added in salary while significantly upgrading the bottom 6.

Rangers currently sit at 57.125 for 22 roster players. We have the room to add a million
http://stats.nhlnumbers.com/teams/NYR?year=2013

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Old
08-22-2012, 01:38 PM
  #35
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I don't think any of the teams involved does this.

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Old
08-22-2012, 05:07 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
...
Quote:
the problem with Kreider at Center is that you have to think the game more than if you were playing Wing.

Kreider has speed and while that's nice, I would prefer to have him play the game where things are natural for him. I don't think that Center is the best position for him in that regards.
Obviously, we would have to allow at least a brief period of adjustment.
That said, I continue to believe that ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL, speed is helpful everywhere but could be extra deadly in center ice, where there are no boards a defender can use to assist with a check.

That said, things are NOT equal, and I accepted a very eloquent explanation, I forgot who, apologies, that noted that in Tort's system, there are positional and other considerations, so any C is already not poised to explode out at center ice, given primary focus on setting up Ws.

But to allow for contingency of injury, coaching style change, etc., AFTER Kreider is settled at LW, we should see if, like Patrick Sharp, he can handle both, especially since he was a C often during his amateur play.


Quote:
I would try him there for a bit, but it's not the long-term goal. He's a LW'er first and foremost that can spot up at center for a short period of time. I also believe that Hansen (being more of a playmaking RW'er than a scoring RW'er) could also take a few games at center until Miller is ready for NHL action (which I think eill be arounf the 40 game mark).
This assumes we make the deal, to which I have an open mind.
I agree Miller will make it this year, ? is sooner than later?

Quote:
Stepan is not a 3rd line center. He has already established that he is a top 6 player.
If Miller is sound and cuts the mustard well enough, his raw speed, added to either Kreider/Hagelin and Callahan makes him a better fit for 2C than 3C. Mark my words. Watch that happen.

The issue is not that Stepan is not competent to be 2C or top 6.
The issue is that Rangers 2nd line = Kreider/Hagelin and Callahan, and they should not be slowed by Stepan, who presumably can't show up at camp and skate THAT MUCH faster than to date.

Stepan is at min. 2c, could even be 1c on some clubs, if not now, eventually.
But whether linemates Kreider/Hagelin and Callahan are first line, second line or third line, a faster C --- Miller --- is a better complement.


Quote:
When completely healthy after Millers call up

Nash - Richards - Gaborik
Kreider - Stepan - Callahan
Hagelin - Miller - Hansen
Cleary - Halpern - Pyatt

Size, speed, skill on every line
Could be if we did this deal.

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Old
08-26-2012, 06:15 PM
  #37
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I wouldn't mind if Detroit could throw in another forward (Miller, Emmerton, etc.) for another low pick. We NEED to get rid of some of our forwards... way too many.

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Old
08-26-2012, 06:22 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by 13 HockeyTown 40 View Post
I wouldn't mind if Detroit could throw in another forward (Miller, Emmerton, etc.) for another low pick. We NEED to get rid of some of our forwards... way too many.
I would happily take Miller (or Abdelkader) on Vancouver for a late pick. Doubt anyone wants Emmerton.

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Old
08-26-2012, 06:59 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by LuckyLager View Post
I would happily take Miller (or Abdelkader) on Vancouver for a late pick. Doubt anyone wants Emmerton.
I doubt KH would trade Abdelkader once he resigns. He's still pretty young, 25 years old, and is the only 4th line center we have (even though he's way better on the wing).

I would take a 3rd or 4th rounder for Miller. Miller stepped up last year, but I don't see him beating out Cleary/Bertuzzi/Samuelsson for a 3rd line spot. And I would rather have Tootoo/Eaves (if healthy)/Abdelkader on the 4th line.

I wish someone would take Emmerton...

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Old
08-26-2012, 08:52 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by thadd View Post
Detroit is going to want a lot more for Cleary. Don't see the point in Rangers making this deal. Boyle is a beast.
Nobody is gonna give us any more than that for an aging forward that can never stay healthy and only has a year on his contract. I'd prefer a defender, but with as good as we are at drafting, I'd take those picks to clear up some roster space for both Nyquist and Brunner to play. (If Brunner is good enough to make the team)

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Old
08-27-2012, 11:38 AM
  #41
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Big fan of Dan Cleary, I'd rather deal straight with Detroit than involve Vancouver as I have not interest in Hansen.

However, Cleary misses a lot of time, so it'd have to be a sweetheart of a deal.

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Old
08-27-2012, 11:50 AM
  #42
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Cleary has fixed his knees this offseason and is finally healthy, a lockout will only help him further. I think he's gonna have a bounceback season, so wouldn't deal him for picks we don't need. If we could get a D-man back for him, I'd listen closely.

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Old
08-27-2012, 01:56 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by sully61 View Post
How about a defensemen to Detroit instead?
Any defenseman you can get for Dan Cleary would be another stop-gap type guy. Those guys are still available in UFA. If Detroit can land a couple picks for Cleary, they should run to the bank at this point. He's a gamer and with limited action during the season, can really contribute to a team's playoff run.

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Old
08-27-2012, 03:56 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
I would love Boyle on this team as well, and its tricky because he's not exactly a buy-low candidate.

Hes solid defensively, big, can hit, can fight and has moderate offence for a bottom 6 guy.

Unless the Rangers would be interested in Raymond + for him, really Hansen is the only piece I could see going the other way (maybe Raymond + Lapierre but I don't know if thats something I could do).

Boyle can only fight compared to most Canucks.

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Old
08-27-2012, 05:42 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Mr Atoz View Post
Boyle can only fight compared to most Canucks.




















when Boyle fights its a bad thing for a guy his size...he is horrible at it and im a big Rangers fan... biggest guy who cant fight in the league...

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