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Old
08-22-2012, 12:24 PM
  #26
htpwn
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Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
Oh really? That's why he was benched for 25 games. Does have potential for a good pp specialist, bottom pair dman but f man, that kid needs to use his body. Value is probably good, as Hjalmarsson is worth mid-late 1st, MacA a late 1st, and Franson is a mid 2nd.
No. He was scratched for 25 games because of Luke Schenn's potential and Mike Komisarek's contract. Anybody watching the games could see that Franson outplayed both by quite a margin last year.

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08-22-2012, 12:28 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
Could be Bozak instead of Mac too, would still like it
I wouldn't like it if we had to include Bozak.

A one for one Bozak for Hjalmarsson deal might be fair, but it's a risk trading Bozak. Kessel has great chemistry with him, and as much as he gets laughed at on these boards, Bozak is a very effective player. Put up 47 points in 73 games last season, had 117 hits (More hits than guys like Mike Richards, Ryan Kesler, Jordan Staal), he's a smart player, doesn't cause costly turn-overs, good on the face-offs, good playmaker, and has a pretty nice wrist shot, and is a solid two-way forward. And like I said, he has great chemistry with Kessel.

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Old
08-22-2012, 12:28 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
Oh really? That's why he was benched for 25 games. Does have potential for a good pp specialist, bottom pair dman but f man, that kid needs to use his body. Value is probably good, as Hjalmarsson is worth mid-late 1st, MacA a late 1st, and Franson is a mid 2nd.
Lol yeah because he proved nothing playing as a regular in Nashville on one of the best bluelines in the league, he could have easily slotted into our lineup more often, he knows it and hes not happy about it.

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08-22-2012, 12:29 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by RaskY View Post
As a Leafs fan I would be tempted to pull the trigger on this deal.

However, the thing is, Hjalmarsson is a left handed shot. Ideally, I would like to acquire a #4 D-Man to play with Liles on the second pairing (Liles also a left handed shot).

Gunnarsson - Phaneuf
Liles - Hjalmarsson

Would be a nice top four, but I'm not sure about having two LHD's on the same pairing.
I don't see the equal value, as the Leafs give up a 2nd line 40-50 point winger and a bottom pairing PP defenseman with 10 - 12 goal upside. Hawks give up a good stay at home defenseman.

Chicago would most definitely be adding to get these kind of assets. I would want a guy like Morin along with Hjalmarsson if I was Burke.

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Old
08-22-2012, 12:35 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Drew311 View Post
I don't see the equal value, as the Leafs give up a 2nd line 40-50 point winger and a bottom pairing PP defenseman with 10 - 12 goal upside. Hawks give up a good stay at home defenseman.

Chicago would most definitely be adding to get these kind of assets. I would want a guy like Morin along with Hjalmarsson if I was Burke.
No the original proposal. Chicago needs to cut down on its Goals Against. Adding a vanilla 2nd line Winger isn't the Hawks biggest need and we have little need for a third pairing powerplay specialist. Leddy is younger and better as an offensive defenseman so Franson has as small a role on the Hawks as he does the Leafs. Hjalmarsson is one of our best defenders. He can't be had for MacArthur and Franson, and you're certainly not getting a prospect like Morin too. Horrible asset management for the Hawks, Leafs make out like bandits.

Big NO from my end.

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Old
08-22-2012, 12:35 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Drew311 View Post
I don't see the equal value, as the Leafs give up a 2nd line 40-50 point winger and a bottom pairing PP defenseman with 10 - 12 goal upside. Hawks give up a good stay at home defenseman.

Chicago would most definitely be adding to get these kind of assets. I would want a guy like Morin along with Hjalmarsson if I was Burke.
But this is essentially what guys like MacArthur are for. Good player? Sure. He can produce at a pretty effective rate. Can score some goals. He's a stop-gap. That's exactly what he is. He's there while our prospects who can play that role develop. But now, we have Matt Frattin, Carter Ashton (Next year maybe Brad Ross, Tyler Biggs) and most notably Nazem Kadri who have to be given a fair shot.

IMO, it's time to let Kadri sink or swim with Toronto. Trade MacArthur and you open up that top six spot on the wing where Kadri, playing beside Grabovski would fit perfectly this season. Kadri has more natural talent than MacArthur, without a doubt, and once developed he will in all likeliness be the better player. And all this while acquiring a pretty good shut-down defenseman which we could use on our top four.

I do agree however, that I think if this deal were to happen in real life, Burke would come out with more than just Hjalmarsson. He seems to be pretty good at trading and getting more out of the other GM.

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Old
08-22-2012, 01:07 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
No the original proposal. Chicago needs to cut down on its Goals Against. Adding a vanilla 2nd line Winger isn't the Hawks biggest need and we have little need for a third pairing powerplay specialist. Leddy is younger and better as an offensive defenseman so Franson has as small a role on the Hawks as he does the Leafs. Hjalmarsson is one of our best defenders. He can't be had for MacArthur and Franson, and you're certainly not getting a prospect like Morin too. Horrible asset management for the Hawks, Leafs make out like bandits.

Big NO from my end.
I agree 100% - we need another guy in the mold of Hammer/Seabrook, not to be giving one of them away.

I don't think value is too bad, it just the opposite of what CHI needs.

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Old
08-22-2012, 01:10 PM
  #33
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There is nothing similar between Seabrook and Hjalmarsson.

People keep acting like Hjalmarsson is this physical machine that lays every body out all the time, and uses his size to his advantage.
he isn't even that great defensively. He plays his position well, but get's caught flat footed or leaving men out in front of the net a lot.

The guy also had a lousy 42 hits last year.

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Old
08-22-2012, 01:22 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
There is nothing similar between Seabrook and Hjalmarsson.

People keep acting like Hjalmarsson is this physical machine that lays every body out all the time, and uses his size to his advantage.
he isn't even that great defensively. He plays his position well, but get's caught flat footed or leaving men out in front of the net a lot.

The guy also had a lousy 42 hits last year.
Which is exactly why he would not fetch a 2nd line winger and young offensive defenseman.

Chicago's needs aside, the original proposal just isn't fair value from a Leafs perspective.

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Old
08-22-2012, 01:29 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Drew311 View Post
Which is exactly why he would not fetch a 2nd line winger and young offensive defenseman.

Chicago's needs aside, the original proposal just isn't fair value from a Leafs perspective.
Yes it is. And the Leafs can afford to give up both of them. For wingers in our top 6, we have Kessel, Lupul, JVR, Kulemin, Kadri, Frattin to choose from, and Hammer is obviously an upgrade over Franson. Franson had some nice flashes on the powerplay but between Phaneuf, Gardiner and Liles we'd be much better off with a more defensive upgrade.

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Old
08-22-2012, 02:00 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
Yes it is. And the Leafs can afford to give up both of them. For wingers in our top 6, we have Kessel, Lupul, JVR, Kulemin, Kadri, Frattin to choose from, and Hammer is obviously an upgrade over Franson. Franson had some nice flashes on the powerplay but between Phaneuf, Gardiner and Liles we'd be much better off with a more defensive upgrade.
Just because it suits your needs doesn't mean value is fair. I think Chicago would have to add a 2nd-3rd rounder. Hjalmarsson isn't that great or anything.

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Old
08-22-2012, 02:11 PM
  #37
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Lol yeah because he proved nothing playing as a regular in Nashville on one of the best bluelines in the league, he could have easily slotted into our lineup more often, he knows it and hes not happy about it.
He played bottom pair sheltered minutes on Preds.. And I don't really like how he says publically that he wants more ice time when he really didn't deserve it. Nashville's bottom four was pretty average, it was just that they had a great top pair that they could use for 25 minutes.

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08-22-2012, 02:15 PM
  #38
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I don't think the value is far off, but I tought Hjal got paid 4 million per from the offersheet?

In that case I don't think this is a smart deal from Toronto's end. Chicago needs Hjal more than Mac and Franson anyway.

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Old
08-22-2012, 02:32 PM
  #39
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Franson is a another defenseman that we have plenty of. Puck movers we got. Steady stay at home PK warriors we don't.

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Old
08-22-2012, 02:34 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
People keep acting like Hjalmarsson is this physical machine that lays every body out all the time, and uses his size to his advantage.
he isn't even that great defensively. He plays his position well, but get's caught flat footed or leaving men out in front of the net a lot.
Every d-man on the Hawks left opposing players wide open in front of the net (including Seabrook). Hammer didn't do that anymore often than anyone else. Secondly there is a pretty big difference between throwing hits and playing the body/using his size defensively. Hammer might not have raked up the hits, but he used his size to force the opposition to the outside and to rub players off the puck. Judging a players physical play by hits doesn't give you the full picture at all.

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Old
08-22-2012, 02:45 PM
  #41
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Speaking as a Jackets and Preds fan, I totally approve of this deal.

Seriously, Franson has got to be one of the more overrated folks in the NHL. All he has is an accurate shot. Nice attribute, to be sure... but that doesn't make him "second pairing". And MacArthur isn't a #2C, so, yeah, sure, go ahead.

Basically it leans Chicago more towards a "hope we can outscore our troubles" team. I can't see that working in the Central Division.

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Old
08-22-2012, 03:06 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
No the original proposal. Chicago needs to cut down on its Goals Against. Adding a vanilla 2nd line Winger isn't the Hawks biggest need and we have little need for a third pairing powerplay specialist. Leddy is younger and better as an offensive defenseman so Franson has as small a role on the Hawks as he does the Leafs. Hjalmarsson is one of our best defenders. He can't be had for MacArthur and Franson, and you're certainly not getting a prospect like Morin too. Horrible asset management for the Hawks, Leafs make out like bandits.

Big NO from my end.
I agree this deal doesn't make sense from our end but value is not that far off. Hammer could be had for those two but its not a deal you make because it does not improve us. Although if the management wants to keep continuing the failed experiment with Kane at center we could use MacArthur. MacArthur would not be my first choice for top 6 winger to acquire but it beats playing guys like Brunette in our top 6. Hopefully Saad can establish himself into that role but as of now MacArthur would be an upgrade.

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08-22-2012, 04:52 PM
  #43
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As a Leafer, I'd do this after camp if Kadri or Frattin step up.
I'd prefer to do Connolly+Franson though.

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08-22-2012, 05:51 PM
  #44
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Just because it suits your needs doesn't mean value is fair. I think Chicago would have to add a 2nd-3rd rounder. Hjalmarsson isn't that great or anything.
Hjalmarsson is a dependable 2nd pairing PKing defensive defenseman. He has a 3 year resume of providing that while being a + player and is still only 25.

MacArthur for Hjalmarsson straight up is a bad deal for the Blackhawks because of need. We don't have any need for Cody Franson. So this trade doesn't make the Blackhawks better. We take our biggest need and get worse at it. Our biggest strength of having good scoring wingers is added to modestly even though we have good prospects at Wing in Saad and Morin that we're hopeful can fill top six roles and not long from now.

This is just a bad trade for the Hawks. The fit doesn't make any sense. Realistically a team like Washington makes a better fit for MacArthur. They could use a winger to play with Ribeiro on the 2nd line. Him for Washington's first might be a good fit. Hjalmarsson isn't for sale unless a better Defenseman is coming the other way.

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Old
08-22-2012, 06:31 PM
  #45
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There's no reason for Chicago to trade Hjalmarsson unless it involves a center coming back.

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Old
08-22-2012, 06:47 PM
  #46
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I'd say yes as a Hawks fan. Why would the Leafs do this?
A trade proposal that both teams like?!!?!?! This can't be happening.

The play on the Leafs end of things is fairly straightforward. They've got Liles, Gardiner, Franson, and Phaneuf who all think the game offensively. Toss Rielly in there as well longer term. They've got Gunnarsson and Komisarek who think the game defensively. Komisarek hasn't been good enough in a leaf uniform to rely upon to be a top 4 guy.

They've also got a plethora of wingers, and with the addition of JvR, MacArthur probably finds his way out of the top 6 (Kulemin gets the nod for goalscoring potential, puck posession and size). We've got guys like Frattin, Lombardi, Connolly, and Kadri who can all contribute similar things to what MacArthur would on the 3rd. If the Leafs can use Mac to get a proven top 4 shutdown dman, they absolutely should.

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Old
08-22-2012, 07:28 PM
  #47
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He played bottom pair sheltered minutes on Preds.. And I don't really like how he says publically that he wants more ice time when he really didn't deserve it. Nashville's bottom four was pretty average, it was just that they had a great top pair that they could use for 25 minutes.
I'm aware, but he is better than that. Franson put up good numbers, 21 points playing 50 some games. He deserves more games than that and other teams would give it to him. And at your comment earlier, he was not benched lol.

Also, i know they're the same age, i was just pointing out Franson is young with potential, never said Nik wasn't either.

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Old
08-23-2012, 10:00 AM
  #48
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As a Leafer, I'd do this after camp if Kadri or Frattin step up.
I'd prefer to do Connolly+Franson though.
I don't see the incentive for Hawks to pull the trigger on this. It would make sense if Connolly would play 75+ games this year but I don't see him doing it. Aside from hsi durability he would put up major points between Hossa, Sharp. (forgive me if I got line pairings wrong.)

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Old
08-23-2012, 11:04 AM
  #49
Tony Clifton Leaf
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But this is essentially what guys like MacArthur are for. Good player? Sure. He can produce at a pretty effective rate. Can score some goals. He's a stop-gap. That's exactly what he is. He's there while our prospects who can play that role develop. But now, we have Matt Frattin, Carter Ashton (Next year maybe Brad Ross, Tyler Biggs) and most notably Nazem Kadri who have to be given a fair shot.

IMO, it's time to let Kadri sink or swim with Toronto. Trade MacArthur and you open up that top six spot on the wing where Kadri, playing beside Grabovski would fit perfectly this season. Kadri has more natural talent than MacArthur, without a doubt, and once developed he will in all likeliness be the better player. And all this while acquiring a pretty good shut-down defenseman which we could use on our top four.

I do agree however, that I think if this deal were to happen in real life, Burke would come out with more than just Hjalmarsson. He seems to be pretty good at trading and getting more out of the other GM.
Unless JVR sticks at center, even if we move Macarthur there won't be a top-6 spot open on wing:

Lupul-Bozak-Kessel
JVR-Grabo-Kulemin
Kadri-Mcclement-Connolly/Frattin
Komarov-Steckel-Brown

I could see us going with this line-up, and having these PP lines however:

PP1:
Lupul-Kadri-Kessel

PP2:
JVR-Grabo-Kulemin


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Old
08-23-2012, 11:06 AM
  #50
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I don't see the incentive for Hawks to pull the trigger on this. It would make sense if Connolly would play 75+ games this year but I don't see him doing it. Aside from hsi durability he would put up major points between Hossa, Sharp. (forgive me if I got line pairings wrong.)
He didn't put up "major points" between Kessel and Lupul.

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