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David Desharnais next contract

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Old
08-21-2012, 07:02 PM
  #301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
Chemistry rarely lasts past a season.
What about AK46-Plekanec-Kovalev?

What about Higgins-Koivu-Ryder?


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08-21-2012, 07:04 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
No, it is better to leave DD at center with Pacioretty and Cole. They are our top line and the main reason is "chemistry", the kind you can not buy. Is it possible that DD regresses? Sure it is. It is also possible that he becomes our own Giroux. Did you know DD had a better 1st full NHL season than Giroux did? No, I am not saying DD IS better than Giroux. I am NOT saying he will be. However, the truth is that he COULD be. As others have demonstrated, DD has plenty of ability to improve. Keep DD with Cole and Pacioretty, and see how much better that line becomes when we have a true second line that is an offensive threat to take some pressure off our top line.

There is NO reason to screw up our top line at this point in time. Chemistry is truly important, moreso than simple skill, sometimes. Ask Blue Jackets fans how well Carter and Nash worked together, and you might start to understand the true value of keeping DD right where he is...at least until he fails to produce on a consistent basis.
Again,

This thread is about Desharnais' next contract, which only kicks in beginning in the 2013-2014 season. The context is that Galchenyuk will then be on the team and we'll have 4 top-3 centers: Galchenyuk, Desharnais, Eller, and Plekanec.

It is a given that the 1st line center job is Desharnais' to lose at the start of next season.

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08-21-2012, 07:16 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
Chemistry rarely lasts past a season.
Pacioretty disagrees. He went to bad with Habs' management explaining that DD was the best center he ever played with. DD enters the NHL, plays with Pacioretty, and they both have career years along with Cole. Chemistry. I do agree we need to see another season of it to be sure we have Gold rather than Fool's Gold, but I believe it is real. We shall see...

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08-21-2012, 07:19 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Again,

This thread is about Desharnais' next contract, which only kicks in beginning in the 2013-2014 season. The context is that Galchenyuk will then be on the team and we'll have 4 top-3 centers: Galchenyuk, Desharnais, Eller, and Plekanec.

It is a given that the 1st line center job is Desharnais' to lose at the start of next season.
Then there is nothing to debate. By then we will know if DD is a one-hit wonder or the next Giroux, to one degree or another. If worse comes to worse, we move Galchenyuk to Plekanec's LW. Problem solved internally...

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08-22-2012, 05:14 AM
  #305
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
actually is does as it was the Question I asked : UNDRAFTED, 25 years old in their first full season, at least one 70+ season...

since a lot of you seems to be so sure he'll keep developping some more, that he'll keep improving a whole lot...

and while you seems to think it's so damn easy, you managed zero that fits the criteria in your list...

the closest you found is Borrows who had one 60 pts season...


so, to my Q : undrafted, 25 yo in first full season, at least one 70+ pts season we're back to Jean Beliveau -> approx. 60 years ago...

and yet people are so sure he'll keep improving, some here even think he'll be a PPG soon... huh, based on what?


yeah, it's possible it happens, could even happen next season... but "being sure of it" ? come on now...
Im sure of it. Like I was sure he'd make the NHL and very few believed me.

There's only two players who I thought were sure things that didn't make the NHL. Stejskal (who still has a chance) and Aubin (boy was I way wrong lol) ... There are others like Ryan White who I got behind while everyone else was behind Maxwell ... But I have never been so sure of a non-1st rounder in my life.

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08-22-2012, 08:47 AM
  #306
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
actually is does as it was the Question I asked : UNDRAFTED, 25 years old in their first full season, at least one 70+ season...
im sure if you narrow the question down enough, you'll never find an answer

my long term solution is having dd as winger on eller's line (or gally's) since he seems more of a shooter than a passer. tunnel vision and all...

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08-22-2012, 09:55 AM
  #307
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
took you a while.
And that changes what exactly?

The best players are all exceptional, I'm not sure thats a reason to worry about Desharnais.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion
Again,

This thread is about Desharnais' next contract, which only kicks in beginning in the 2013-2014 season. The context is that Galchenyuk will then be on the team and we'll have 4 top-3 centers: Galchenyuk, Desharnais, Eller, and Plekanec.

It is a given that the 1st line center job is Desharnais' to lose at the start of next season.
Better to extend him now. He won't be eager to sign a contract with us if he fears for his place on the team. He's more valuable to us signed for a few years wether we end up keeping him or not.

Plekanec was the first line center coming into last season, the job was his to lose then. He has more pressure than Desharnais.

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08-22-2012, 11:35 AM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Pacioretty disagrees. He went to bad with Habs' management explaining that DD was the best center he ever played with. DD enters the NHL, plays with Pacioretty, and they both have career years along with Cole. Chemistry. I do agree we need to see another season of it to be sure we have Gold rather than Fool's Gold, but I believe it is real. We shall see...
I'm not saying break it up based on history but people need to just understand that Montreal could go into the season and Patches plays a ton better with Plekanec than DD while DD works great with Eller or Galchenyuk and if the line gets broken up, it won't be because Therrien is a monster.

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08-22-2012, 11:41 AM
  #309
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
im sure if you narrow the question down enough, you'll never find an answer

my long term solution is having dd as winger on eller's line (or gally's) since he seems more of a shooter than a passer. tunnel vision and all...
I like the idea of DD on Eller's wing, but saying he has tunnel vision is absurd. Up until last season, people were complaining he didn't shoot enough and all his draft write-ups have him as a playmaker first.

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08-22-2012, 12:11 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post
Im sure of it. Like I was sure he'd make the NHL and very few believed me.

There's only two players who I thought were sure things that didn't make the NHL. Stejskal (who still has a chance) and Aubin (boy was I way wrong lol) ... There are others like Ryan White who I got behind while everyone else was behind Maxwell ... But I have never been so sure of a non-1st rounder in my life.
Aubin has really stepped it up in the past season and a half. He was +25 on a team which scored one more goal than it allowed and he was 7th in the ECHL in scoring.

He also received rave reviews from his AHL coach during one of his call ups. He's a team leader who will be Captain this season.

While the date on his birth certificate is weighing heavily against his chances of ever seeing the NHL, had his level of play been where it is now, then he would have a legitimate shot at playing a few games as an organizational depth player in the NHL. His skating isn't quite what one would like for a regular NHLer, so an occasional injury-induced call up is all he likely would have gotten.

You weren't quite as far off as you might think on M. Aubin.

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08-22-2012, 12:16 PM
  #311
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Eller is a fantastic playmaker.

Anybody who watched the games last year will know that he would have way more assists if Rene Bourque had stopped fanning like a maniac.

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08-22-2012, 12:31 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Eller is a fantastic playmaker.

Anybody who watched the games last year will know that he would have way more assists if Rene Bourque had stopped fanning like a maniac.
22 assists in 163 NHL games screams otherwise.

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08-22-2012, 01:00 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
I like the idea of DD on Eller's wing, but saying he has tunnel vision is absurd. Up until last season, people were complaining he didn't shoot enough and all his draft write-ups have him as a playmaker first.
maybe so...

but, now, every time i see eller with the puck, he looks afflicted with a severe case of tunnel vision. maybe having terribad linemates last year forced to try to do everything himself i don't know, but when i see eller, the last thing i think of is playmaker

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08-22-2012, 01:21 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
22 assists in 163 NHL games screams otherwise.
Only if you take them completely out of context. Compare his assists to the number of goals his linemates really could have been expected to score during that time.

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08-22-2012, 03:24 PM
  #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
im sure if you narrow the question down enough, you'll never find an answer

my long term solution is having dd as winger on eller's line (or gally's) since he seems more of a shooter than a passer. tunnel vision and all...
not narrowing down anything, just describing DD situation and what seems to be the new expectations of DD

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08-22-2012, 03:37 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Only if you take them completely out of context. Compare his assists to the number of goals his linemates really could have been expected to score during that time.
Desharnais had 15 in 49 games playing with the same types of linemates.

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08-22-2012, 04:08 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Eller is a fantastic playmaker.

Anybody who watched the games last year will know that he would have way more assists if Rene Bourque had stopped fanning like a maniac.
Earlier in this thread, I pointed out Desharnais is a "very good offensive minded playmaking center" (p.9). Here was your answer :

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion
16th in the NHL in the best of circumstance for points in the best of circumstance, with a low goals to assist ratio and no defensive aptitude... is not "very good".
Eller is a fantastic playmaker but Desharnais is not even "very good".

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08-22-2012, 09:00 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Earlier in this thread, I pointed out Desharnais is a "very good offensive minded playmaking center" (p.9). Here was your answer :

Eller is a fantastic playmaker but Desharnais is not even "very good".
You got me, I'm not being consistent in my application of labels. I now restate simply that I think Eller is a better playmaker than his stats show, based on what I saw in the games, that Rene Bourque can't hit the puck.

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08-23-2012, 03:41 AM
  #319
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Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post
Im sure of it. Like I was sure he'd make the NHL and very few believed me.

There's only two players who I thought were sure things that didn't make the NHL. Stejskal (who still has a chance) and Aubin (boy was I way wrong lol) ... There are others like Ryan White who I got behind while everyone else was behind Maxwell ... But I have never been so sure of a non-1st rounder in my life.
just so you know, the number of 70+ pts player is decreasing in general...

last year there was 15 forwards or so...

So, you think DD is among the 15 best forwards in this league offensively ?



also, players with 50 assists or more, there's even less..

so, you think DD is amonth 10/12 best passers in this league ?


think people forget how hard it has become to be a PPG player in this league...

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08-23-2012, 09:51 AM
  #320
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
just so you know, the number of 70+ pts player is decreasing in general...

last year there was 15 forwards or so...

So, you think DD is among the 15 best forwards in this league offensively ?



also, players with 50 assists or more, there's even less..

so, you think DD is amonth 10/12 best passers in this league ?


think people forget how hard it has become to be a PPG player in this league...
I agree with much that has been said here. No he's not the 15 best forward. But he's easily in the 10-12 range for best passer.

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08-23-2012, 12:12 PM
  #321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
just so you know, the number of 70+ pts player is decreasing in general...

last year there was 15 forwards or so...

So, you think DD is among the 15 best forwards in this league offensively ?



also, players with 50 assists or more, there's even less..

so, you think DD is amonth 10/12 best passers in this league ?


think people forget how hard it has become to be a PPG player in this league...
Yes.

Yes.

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08-23-2012, 01:53 PM
  #322
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
think people forget how hard it has become to be a PPG player in this league...
The average hockey fan tends to have the mindset that the salary cap is still at 05-06 numbers and that league scoring is still at 95-96 numbers.

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08-23-2012, 02:39 PM
  #323
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Yes.

Yes.
so, Giroux, Crosby, Malkin, MSL (heh), Stamkos, Kovalchuk, Neal, Tavares, H. Sedin, D. Sedin... we're already at ten forwards (70+ pts players)...

so, you're saying he's in that group ? really ?

or maybe he's in the "other 5" group ? along with Spezza, Seguin, E. Staal, Hossa, Gaborik, Thornton, Kopitar, Parize, Kessel, Eberle, Ovechkin ?

(and my mistake, it's closer to 20 than 15)

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08-23-2012, 03:28 PM
  #324
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Yes.

Yes.
WoW talk about losing credibility..

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08-23-2012, 07:29 PM
  #325
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
so, Giroux, Crosby, Malkin, MSL (heh), Stamkos, Kovalchuk, Neal, Tavares, H. Sedin, D. Sedin... we're already at ten forwards (70+ pts players)...

so, you're saying he's in that group ? really ?

or maybe he's in the "other 5" group ? along with Spezza, Seguin, E. Staal, Hossa, Gaborik, Thornton, Kopitar, Parize, Kessel, Eberle, Ovechkin ?

(and my mistake, it's closer to 20 than 15)
I think it is quite possible, yes. Look, DD got 60 points in his first full NHL season. Giroux got 47. The next season, Giroux got over 70 points, 51 of which were assists. So, yes, it is possible that DD can get 10 more assists and a few more goals this season and break the 70 point barrier. Especially if our second line produces more than it did last year, thereby forcing opposing teams to split their top defensive pairing duties, rather than focusing them on the Cole, DD, Pacioretty line.

Again, it is possible that DD does not get better, but as I said, I will believe in what Pacioretty says about him and look forwards to him improving this season.

On a side note, Ovechkin only scored 65 points last year, not too far above DD's 60. Does that mean DD is as good as Ovie? No. It does show that putting a player in a proper position to win is helpful. Ovechkin did not develop the right chemistry with his coach and the system he implemented, so his numbers dropped drastically. DD is in a good spot to succeed. So, before trying to trash him and make fun of anyone who thinks he can further develop, try giving him a second full season to see what happens.

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