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CHL Players Union

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08-22-2012, 09:13 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by hyster110 View Post
from what i hear the two issue the union looks to address is the player stipend and education packages

with the stipends, gordie howe was making the 50 dollars a week when he played in junior. this should be increased especially since hockey has become a full time job for these kids. 150 a week or somewhere in and a round there would be a start IMO

the problem with the education is that players only have 18 months once they complete junior to use that package or its lost forever. this IMO should be extended for those who want to try and make it pro, but eventually cant make it and want to go to school
I think its risky if people just look at the cash and don't look at all the other things the teams pay be it room & board/all there gear/gas/cell phones etc.

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08-22-2012, 09:15 AM
  #27
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Why doesn't the CHL run like any professional league? Other professional leagues have come up with solutions to all of those problems. The main difference between the CHL and other professional sports leagues is that players in those other leagues have negotiating power. I say, more power to the players.
a) The players are hoping to become professional one day, but are not now.
b) They're not professional players. Some will be, some will not.
c) The players are hoping to become professional one day, but are not now
d) They're not professional players. Some will be, some will not.

As a fan, if I wanted to watch professional players, I'd be spending $75-$200 per ticket per game. I don't and neither do a lot of other CHL fans.

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08-22-2012, 10:13 AM
  #28
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Has anyone read THIS yet?

Definitely has more questions than answers

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08-22-2012, 12:34 PM
  #29
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Branch releases a statement:

http://www.whl.ca/article/statement-...-chl-president

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08-22-2012, 12:36 PM
  #30
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This should be interesting:

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Our league is comprised of 60 teams, all of which operate as individual corporate entities. Given this structure, any organization drive would be required to be at an individual team level.

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08-22-2012, 01:19 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
a) The players are hoping to become professional one day, but are not now.
b) They're not professional players. Some will be, some will not.
c) The players are hoping to become professional one day, but are not now
d) They're not professional players. Some will be, some will not.

As a fan, if I wanted to watch professional players, I'd be spending $75-$200 per ticket per game. I don't and neither do a lot of other CHL fans.
If you can be under contract with an NHL team and get paid to play in the league, you are a professional. If there are professionals in the league, it is a professional league.

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08-22-2012, 01:41 PM
  #32
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If you can be under contract with an NHL team and get paid to play in the league, you are a professional. If there are professionals in the league, it is a professional league.
Yes, that's what the NCAA believes.

According to anyone else, they are not professionals. They are high school kids who happen to be very good at hockey, and are paid a stipend (not a salary) for their dedication to their teams.

It is a developmental league, preparing players to play professionally or in post-secondary environments.

Unless you also believe that the USNTDP is also professional league, because they're trying to prepare players the same way.

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08-22-2012, 01:47 PM
  #33
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If you can be under contract with an NHL team and get paid to play in the league, you are a professional. If there are professionals in the league, it is a professional league.
Just for clarification, any major junior player would be considered professional. Then a player that goes back to the USHL ie John Padulo plays for Muskegon is considered professional by your statement. Furthermore any player that played major junior and goes back to tier 2 would make there leagues now professional. How can the NCAA recruit players from these leagues if professionals are playing in them making them a professional league?

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08-22-2012, 01:49 PM
  #34
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If you can be under contract with an NHL team and get paid to play in the league, you are a professional. If there are professionals in the league, it is a professional league.
So could you not say the same about the Ncaa?

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08-22-2012, 02:12 PM
  #35
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Just for clarification, any major junior player would be considered professional. Then a player that goes back to the USHL ie John Padulo plays for Muskegon is considered professional by your statement. Furthermore any player that played major junior and goes back to tier 2 would make there leagues now professional. How can the NCAA recruit players from these leagues if professionals are playing in them making them a professional league?
Nope, you misinterpreted my post. There are no players under contract in the USHL.

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Originally Posted by wjhl2009fan View Post
So could you not say the same about the Ncaa?
There are no players under contract in the NCAA.

Here are some more good reads outlining the issues...
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/junio...ant_questions/
http://www.puckworlds.com/2012/8/22/...junior-players

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08-22-2012, 02:27 PM
  #36
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If you can be under contract with an NHL team and get paid to play in the league, you are a professional. If there are professionals in the league, it is a professional league.
While I'm sure any player who has signed a contract with his NHL team would love to be paid that money when he's playing in the CHL, it simply doesn't work that way. The NHL money doesn't start until he plays with the NHL team that drafted him and stops the moment he is sent back to his CHL team. They aren't paid to play in the league.

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08-22-2012, 02:34 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by The Exiled One View Post
Nope, you misinterpreted my post. There are no players under contract in the USHL.


There are no players under contract in the NCAA.

Here are some more good reads outlining the issues...
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/junio...ant_questions/
http://www.puckworlds.com/2012/8/22/...junior-players
Now would Padulo not get some sort of Education Package from the OHL? That would mean he is under contract still thus making him a professional in your words.

So you are telling me that OHL players are not professionals only the ones that signed an NHL contract? Still makes no sense why a player that doesn't sign a contract not have eligibility to go to NCAA. Padulo and many others in tier 2 canada have played pro (OHL or MJ) and thus should make their league and teams professional as well.

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08-22-2012, 02:36 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
While I'm sure any player who has signed a contract with his NHL team would love to be paid that money when he's playing in the CHL, it simply doesn't work that way. The NHL money doesn't start until he plays with the NHL team that drafted him and stops the moment he is sent back to his CHL team. They aren't paid to play in the league.
"They aren't earning a salary yet, but they received bonus money and have essentially turned professional with a future contract in place."

http://www.puckworlds.com/2012/8/22/...junior-players

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08-22-2012, 02:43 PM
  #39
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Now would Padulo not get some sort of Education Package from the OHL? That would mean he is under contract still thus making him a professional in your words.
I was referring to an NHL contract, but either way, the education package he earned is not a contract. If he was under contract in the OHL, he'd be playing in the OHL.

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Originally Posted by moko00 View Post
So you are telling me that OHL players are not professionals only the ones that signed an NHL contract? Still makes no sense why a player that doesn't sign a contract not have eligibility to go to NCAA.
I'm not defending NCAA rules, I'm defending the players right to bargain. However, if a player has signed a contract with an agent, he is clearly a professional. I realize that's not the case with all CHL players, but it is with many of them.

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08-22-2012, 02:46 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by The Exiled One View Post
"They aren't earning a salary yet, but they received bonus money and have essentially turned professional with a future contract in place."

http://www.puckworlds.com/2012/8/22/...junior-players
Yes, some of the players have received bonus money. However, a lot of them are either a) too young to be drafted or b) not likely to be drafted. Are they professionals too? According to the absolute terms of the NCAA, a 16 year old rookie in the OHL is considered a professional, yet there is no possible way to know whether he will become a pro hockey player. What about the kid who is drafted in the 7th round by an NHL team?

This is where the NCAA's written in stone stance falters, in my opinion. Those players who haven't or won't ever sign an NHL deal should not be considered professionals - because they aren't. As a result, the ability to form a bargaining unit is sketchy at best.

Do you honestly believe that an NCAA "advisor" isn't an agent? They most certainly are.

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08-22-2012, 02:47 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by The Exiled One View Post
I was referring to an NHL contract, but either way, the education package he earned is not a contract. If he was under contract in the OHL, he'd be playing in the OHL.


I'm not defending NCAA rules, I'm defending the players right to bargain. However, if a player has signed a contract with an agent, he is clearly a professional. I realize that's not the case with all CHL players, but it is with many of them.
So if Padulo had an agent that did his OHL contract he would have an agent at one point in his career thus making him professional. Now the USHL allows this professional into their league making there league professional. Your words not mine! How can the NCAA recruit players from a PRO league?

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08-22-2012, 02:54 PM
  #42
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So if Padulo had an agent that did his OHL contract he would have an agent at one point in his career thus making him professional. Now the USHL allows this professional into their league making there league professional. Your words not mine! How can the NCAA recruit players from a PRO league?
Again, I'm not defending NCAA rules. However, Padulo (though professional in the NCAA's eyes) is not being compensated to appear in the USHL. This is the same justification the NCAA uses to allow college players to participate in the WJC without losing their eligibility.

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08-22-2012, 02:54 PM
  #43
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Another quick question. How can NCAA hockey allow drafted players in their league where Football and Basketball can not?

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08-22-2012, 02:56 PM
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Do you honestly believe that an NCAA "advisor" isn't an agent? They most certainly are.
They are the same individuals, but they are not compensated. Collegiate players can and have switched advisors with no financial repercussions.

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08-22-2012, 02:57 PM
  #45
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Another quick question. How can NCAA hockey allow drafted players in their league where Football and Basketball can not?
I've often wondered that myself.

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08-22-2012, 03:04 PM
  #46
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They are the same individuals, but they are not compensated. Collegiate players can and have switched advisors with no financial repercussions.
CHL players have done the same, and until they actually sign an NHL deal, their agents act in an advisory role, at best. They do assist in negotiating the education packages with CHL teams, but again there is no financial winfall associated with that deal*.

* at least that can be proven

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08-22-2012, 03:05 PM
  #47
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If you can be under contract with an NHL team and get paid to play in the league, you are a professional. If there are professionals in the league, it is a professional league.
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Originally Posted by The Exiled One View Post
Again, I'm not defending NCAA rules. However, Padulo (though professional in the NCAA's eyes) is not being compensated to appear in the USHL. This is the same justification the NCAA uses to allow college players to participate in the WJC without losing their eligibility.
So from your 2 quotes I take that your contradicting yourself. Which is it?

As for the Union... Do the players really want this? They will now have to be taxed on their income and Revenue Canada maybe looking at some sort of back payment for the "under the table" stipends these kids are getting as well.

Will an AP player that gets called up have to pay union dues?

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08-22-2012, 03:26 PM
  #48
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So from your 2 quotes I take that your contradicting yourself. Which is it?
I'll amend my first statement to read "compensated professionals".

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Originally Posted by moko00 View Post
As for the Union... Do the players really want this? They will now have to be taxed on their income and Revenue Canada maybe looking at some sort of back payment for the "under the table" stipends these kids are getting as well.

Will an AP player that gets called up have to pay union dues?
I'm not sure if they want it, but if I was a player, I'd vote for it. If I was a parent, I'd advise my kid to vote for it. If I was an agent, I'd advise my client to vote for it. If I was an owner, I'd advise my players to NOT vote for it. In fact, if I was an owner, I'd probably threaten my players to not vote for it in every way legally allowed.

BTW, though I'm obviously an NCAA fan based on my logo, I don't think a union helps NCAA hockey at all. If the compensation packages increased, more kids would probably choose that route, not less. I'm just for honesty and fair compensation... that's it.

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08-22-2012, 03:33 PM
  #49
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I'll amend my first statement to read "compensated professionals".


I'm not sure if they want it, but if I was a player, I'd vote for it. If I was a parent, I'd advise my kid to vote for it. If I was an agent, I'd advise my client to vote for it. If I was an owner, I'd advise my players to NOT vote for it. In fact, if I was an owner, I'd probably threaten my players to not vote for it in every way legally allowed.

BTW, though I'm obviously an NCAA fan based on my logo, I don't think a union helps NCAA hockey at all. If the compensation packages increased, more kids would probably choose that route, not less. I'm just for honesty and fair compensation... that's it.
The thing is if this union happens and they get better education packages plus more pay per week etc that really could hurt the Ncaa.

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08-22-2012, 03:39 PM
  #50
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I'll amend my first statement to read "compensated professionals".


I'm not sure if they want it, but if I was a player, I'd vote for it. If I was a parent, I'd advise my kid to vote for it. If I was an agent, I'd advise my client to vote for it. If I was an owner, I'd advise my players to NOT vote for it. In fact, if I was an owner, I'd probably threaten my players to not vote for it in every way legally allowed.

BTW, though I'm obviously an NCAA fan based on my logo, I don't think a union helps NCAA hockey at all. If the compensation packages increased, more kids would probably choose that route, not less. I'm just for honesty and fair compensation... that's it.
Do you think the athletes in the NCAA will ever form a union? talk about getting exploited.

Just a quick question.. if Padulo or any ex MJ player is considered a PRO why isn't the new leagues they go to considered pro as well? $50 a week could be considered gas money. I know many teams give gas money to players and they still go NCAA? Shouldn't that be against NCAA rules?

It will be interesting to see if they get increased stipeneds and the teams then tax them on those stipends.

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