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Old
08-19-2012, 04:02 PM
  #26
DJOpus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
I think it's fun to retroactively discuss jersey retirement. There was no issue with Smyl's jersey getting retired, he was a Canuck that deserved it. (I assume many people here really don't remember him or never saw him play) There was never any issue with Linden's jersey either.

Naslund on the other hand was rather divisive. Pretty easy for me to decide who is deserving; what do the fans think at the time? For whatever reason, this city seems to appreciate hard working players. Maybe it's because we are a bunch of urban sissies?
I think its because everyone wishes that they were a tough guy. That's why people get behind BxA and the reason the Sedins aren't more popular despite them being clearly the best position players on the team.

I had a problem with Smyl and Linden's jersey retirements at the time because it set such a low standard for acheivement. Good memories are one thing but if we're going to retire jerseys based on good memories and above average play, Kirk MacLean and Greg Adam's jersey numbers should be hanging from the rafters.

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08-19-2012, 06:29 PM
  #27
craigcaulks*
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
I think its because everyone wishes that they were a tough guy. That's why people get behind BxA and the reason the Sedins aren't more popular despite them being clearly the best position players on the team.

I had a problem with Smyl and Linden's jersey retirements at the time because it set such a low standard for acheivement. Good memories are one thing but if we're going to retire jerseys based on good memories and above average play, Kirk MacLean and Greg Adam's jersey numbers should be hanging from the rafters.
You are in a tiny minority if you weren't onside with Smyl's jersey being retired. I must say I am surprised someone named DJOpus would be in his 50s.

If you can't grasp the difference between McLean/Adams & Linden/Smyl, then discussion is totally pointless. However, memories are a rather HUGE part of jersey retirement. In fact, it's part of the point. Sentimentality plays a big role in it rather than some stats geek trying to point out which player deserves it.

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Old
08-19-2012, 09:11 PM
  #28
Royal Canuck
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Originally Posted by Al Swearengen View Post
I was looking at the posts on the Burrows contract talks thread, and I got to thinking about the magnificent *******. Please answer the following questions so we can get a little consensus on where he stands historically.

1. When was the last time a player of Burrows' skill level was this popular with the fans?

2. Is there a comparable player in Canucks history? If so, in what way?

3. Is he your favourite current Canuck?

4. If he gets a cup and retires with the Nucks, is possible that he might see his jersey hung in the rafters?

5. How many cups would he need to make the HOF if he only scored 500 points in his career but continued to be a big playoff factor in the cup runs?

6. Is he the beating, biting heart of the team? He, Kes and KB are often heralded as such as a group, but I'm talking about one player only being the so-called heart and soul.

7. Exactly how good is Alexandre Burrows?

Just looking for a discussion, I know the hall of fame stuff is pretty out there.
1. Geoff Courtnall? I dunno.
2. Nobody that works as hard.
3. You Bet.
4. Possible, but doubt it. He'd still be known as a key player to win the cup though.
5. Too many for Burr to get in his career, probably 3.
6. Sometimes, but I'd say Luongo would have to be the backbone and heart and soul of the squad until next year.
7. A talented two-way forward who cares about his own end first before the offensive zone. A key penalty killer with a good wrist shot and a good pair of hands who can also chip in with clutch goals when you need him. Also a steal for salary.

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Old
08-19-2012, 09:47 PM
  #29
Ogie Goldthorpe
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Originally Posted by Chief Wiggum View Post
1. Geoff Courtnall? I dunno.
G. Courtnall is a pretty good comparison both popularity and skill-wise. Courtnally played a similar game, with slightly more O and slightly less D... IIRC. Dude was master of drawing penalties and scoring on the ensuing power play. I hated him until he came to play for us.

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Old
08-20-2012, 02:23 AM
  #30
vadim sharifijanov
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Originally Posted by Ogie Goldthorpe View Post
G. Courtnall is a pretty good comparison both popularity and skill-wise. Courtnally played a similar game, with slightly more O and slightly less D... IIRC. Dude was master of drawing penalties and scoring on the ensuing power play. I hated him until he came to play for us.
streaky as hell, but a gritty (if also cheap) player who could and often did score big goals. burrows is more reliable.

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Old
08-22-2012, 09:30 PM
  #31
Socratic Method Man
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After reading this thread I stumbled across another thread where I compared Burrows to Zach Parise. This thread actually seems like a better place for the comparison so I'm reposting it here.


"And I agree in that I think Parise is a bit more skilled then Burrows. But I think you may be overestimating the gap between the two. I also think you may be underestimating the effect of powerplay time.

Top scorers really do score a lot of their points on the PP. Now, as you mention, Parise doesn't score as much as some others on the PP, say, his teammate Kovalchuk, who scored 10 goals, 29 points on the PP this year, 2011-2012. But Parise did score 7 goals, 14 points on the PP. This is from getting the 2nd highest total PP minutes on his team with 265 PP minutes.

Burrows on the other hand, scored only 3 goals, 7 points on the PP in only 157 PP minutes, only 6th highest minutes on his team.

Also note that Parise's top linemate on the powerplay was Kovalchuk, the PP-machine. His next top linemates were Elias and then Clarkson. Burrows top linemate on PP was Edler, and then Henrik and Kesler. And this was mainly during the 2nd unit.

So what about the comparative stats at even strength?

Parise had 21 goals and 48 points. Burrows had 23 goals and 43 points. Not a vast difference.

The season before, in 2010-2011, Parise was injured and missed most games. He only scored 6 points in 13 games. But It's worth noting that Burrows scored 24 goals, 45 points at even strength that season. Burrows only scored 1 goal on the PP that season, while getting a mere 71 PP minutes, 13th highest on his team.

In 2009-2010, Parise scored 9 goals, 26 points on PP getting 232 pp minutes, 2nd most minutes on his team. Burrows scored 4 goals, 6 points on PP getting only 114 pp minutes, 12th most minutes on his team.

At even strength, Parise scored 28 goals, 55 points. Burrows scored 26 goals, 54 points. Again, extremely comparable.


I think Garry Valk was correct last season when he said Burrows is a true 1st line player. He has that hockey sense you just can't teach, along with a very high skill level. I think Parise is absolutely worth the 7.5 million he's making (for now, anyways). And I believe Burrows is very comparable. That's why we've been so lucky to have him playing for us, and at 2 million per year. This was absolutely an intentional discount on his part, and this is part of the reason why he is among my very favourite of Canucks.
"


So to answer your last question, I think Burrows is pretty comparable to a guy like Parise - Gritty hard worker who gets most of his goals as garbage goals, but also happens to have great hands and be extremely skilled, and most importantly, have a rare mind for the game. He's not a 1st liner in the mold of the Sedins, but he IS a first liner in the mold of Parise. The production speaks for itself.

And to answer Q.3, I will say yes, tied with the Sedins. Bieksa is close behind as well.

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