HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Markham Arena II

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-20-2012, 03:33 PM
  #351
Lars65
Registered User
 
Lars65's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 120
vCash: 884
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMROWE View Post
The territory rights pay off for Hamilton might not be that low but it would be still be cheaper pay off than Markham would have to pay . Because Hamilton is far enough away that it won't impact there non hockey events like concerts ect. & thats why Markham would have to pay more for territory rights because they would impact hockey & non hockey events events .
That doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense, JM. How can the NHL claim 'territory rights' for non hockey events. It would seem to me that would be completely out of their jurisdiction.

Lars65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2012, 03:55 PM
  #352
aqib
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,328
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars65 View Post
That doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense, JM. How can the NHL claim 'territory rights' for non hockey events. It would seem to me that would be completely out of their jurisdiction.
I think that what the poster was getting at is that MLSE would rather have a team in Hamilton (which would result in Copps being upgraded) and in effect killing off the chances for Markham getting a team in the hopes that it would result in the arena project getting killed off too because the arena project only makes sense if there is team there and the presence of an arena would take away event business from the ACC.

aqib is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2012, 04:18 PM
  #353
smitter88
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 127
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by aqib View Post
I think that what the poster was getting at is that MLSE would rather have a team in Hamilton (which would result in Copps being upgraded) and in effect killing off the chances for Markham getting a team in the hopes that it would result in the arena project getting killed off too because the arena project only makes sense if there is team there and the presence of an arena would take away event business from the ACC.
But isn't paying off two teams almost always going to be more expensive than paying off one.

smitter88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2012, 05:48 PM
  #354
aqib
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,328
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by smitter88 View Post
But isn't paying off two teams almost always going to be more expensive than paying off one.
Well its possible that the Leafs would take less money if it was Hamilton vs Markham. Assuming they had any actual say in the matter. I am not sure how much the Sabres would demand. I am just speculating. If I was the Leafs I would rather have a team in Hamilton in a refurbished Copps than to see a new arena rise in Markham.

aqib is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2012, 06:08 PM
  #355
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 20,140
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by smitter88 View Post
But isn't paying off two teams almost always going to be more expensive than paying off one.
... sure, Hamilton would have to pay indemnification to Toronto & Buffalo, whereas Markham would only have to pay MLSE. Its really kind of intriguing because with the new ownership of Rogers/Bell, Im wondering if the NHL required or perhaps "requested" that they sign-off on objecting to the possibility of not just one but possibly 2 new teams & neighbours in Southern Ontario when they went before the Board of Governors seeking approval of their purchase. The league itself in full control, determining reasonable indemnification fee's preferably through expansion but if necessary via the relocation of one or two of its troubled franchises.

Having dropped close to $1.7B on MLSE, they could use a shot of cash in the form of indemnification fee's not to mention gobbling up the local broadcast rights to both new teams along with possibly knocking CBC off its block in 2015 & swallowing the National rights as well. I dont see this "partnership" between Rogers & Bell lasting for any length of time, frankly strikes me as a Marriage made in Hell, so if you follow that logic in splitting up the spoils at some point down the road, you could have say Bell owning the local broadcast rights for the 2 newer teams & maybe a piece of Hamilton or Markham, Rogers retaining the Leafs & Raptors, TFC, the ACC & Ricoh, the Marlies. All kinds of possibilities & various ways this could come out of the wash.

Killion is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2012, 06:13 PM
  #356
Hamilton Tigers
Registered User
 
Hamilton Tigers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,292
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by aqib View Post
Well its possible that the Leafs would take less money if it was Hamilton vs Markham. Assuming they had any actual say in the matter. I am not sure how much the Sabres would demand. I am just speculating. If I was the Leafs I would rather have a team in Hamilton in a refurbished Copps than to see a new arena rise in Markham.
Being eternally hopeful about Hamilton's NHL chances, I like recalling theories that mention the teachers pension fund exploiting the fact that there is value in indemnification and that this is one reason they sold to Bell/Rogers when they did.

So the same could be said of the Sabres who not only have a deep pocketed owner, but a STH waiting list of thousands. Hopefully, they might look kindly on getting in on some sort of indemnification if they feel their franchise is strong.

If this is the sentiment, then it makes sense for MLSE, in the case of inevitable southern Ontario relocation/expansion, to support Hamilton, rather than any other situation that would create competition through the construction of a new state of the art arena.

Hamilton Tigers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2012, 06:27 PM
  #357
JMROWE
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Hamilton Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 889
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars65 View Post
That doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense, JM. How can the NHL claim 'territory rights' for non hockey events. It would seem to me that would be completely out of their jurisdiction.
If this so called new arena is bulit in Markham it will take business away like concerts ect. from MLSE. since they operate both the Air Canada Center & Ricoh Coliseum thats how MLSE. can demand more money from anybody trying bring a 2nd NHL. team to the GTA. .

JMROWE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2012, 06:37 PM
  #358
Hamilton Tigers
Registered User
 
Hamilton Tigers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,292
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Having dropped close to $1.7B on MLSE, they could use a shot of cash in the form of indemnification fee's not to mention gobbling up the local broadcast rights to both new teams along with possibly knocking CBC off its block in 2015 & swallowing the National rights as well.
Theyre' on record as saying that the acquisition of MLSE is all about content.
Quote:
...said Rogers’ president and CEO Nadir Mohamed, in a statement. “This investment fits squarely into our strategy of securing premium content...
Quote:
“Bell's ownership in MLSE supports our promise to deliver the best content to Canadians across every screen”, said Bell and BCE president and CEO, George Cope. “With our advanced broadband network investments, next generation Bell TV, Mobility and Internet services, and leading sports networks TSN and RDS, the Bell team looks forward to bringing the Leafs, the Raptors, the Marlies and Toronto FC to fans in new and innovative ways."

Scotia Capital analyst Jeff Fan said the transaction makes sense in terms of sports broadcast rights, the fastest growing content cost category in North America.

“The transaction should help limit the impact of rising sports content cost on BCE and RCI and eliminates the risk of MLSE creating a regional sports network similar to YES or MSG, protecting the value of BCE's TSN and Rogers' Sportsnet”, he wrote in a research note on Friday.

Canaccord Genuity analyst Dvai Ghose concurred, though questioned the long term value for Rogers and Bell.

“(W)e have never seen a cableco or telco show discernible value from sports franchise ownership...
http://www.cartt.ca/news/FullStory.c...oadcast-rights

Quote:
Bell President & CEO George Cope on Friday said, "We believe that increasingly live content is going to be more and more important in the technology world and there is no better live content than the professional sports." Cope and Mohamed indicated that they "will be able to deliver a variety of core programming as well [as] digital extras such as multiple camera angles that can be played on computers, tablets and smartphones" (CP, 12/10).
http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/D...ranchises.aspx



And just the other day, the CRTC approved the purchase...

Quote:
As part of the approval, BCE and Rogers will be required to spend $7.5 million over the next seven years on new sports-themed programming by Canadian independent producers.

The federal broadcast regulator also repeated its assertion that companies are prohibited from offering television programs on an exclusive basis to their mobile or Internet subscribers.

"When deciding whether or not to approve a proposed ownership transaction, the Commission must be persuaded, in light of the application and the public record that an approval is in the public interest," CRTC chairman Jean-Pierre Blais said.

"In this case, we have been convinced that the transaction benefits Canadians as it will lead to the creation of new home-grown sports programming."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/stor...-approval.html

Hamilton Tigers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2012, 06:40 PM
  #359
JMROWE
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Hamilton Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 889
vCash: 500
MLSE. will take less money for its territory rights from Hamilton just to keep Markham out of the NHL. as for the Sabres they will get nowhere the amount of money MLSE. will get for there territory rights because the Sabres play much further away than the leafs do .

Leafs - 68 km.
Sabres - 112 km.

JMROWE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2012, 06:54 PM
  #360
aqib
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,328
vCash: 500
I am pretty sure that people in Southern Ontario who go to a lot of Sabres games probably use Nexus (a tag on your car if you are a frequent border-crosser) but wouldn't the fact that it take longer to cross the border dampen the desire to go to Sabres games?

aqib is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2012, 07:40 PM
  #361
Pyrophorus
Registered User
 
Pyrophorus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Eastern GTA
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,469
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Pyrophorus Send a message via Yahoo to Pyrophorus Send a message via Skype™ to Pyrophorus
Interesting:

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/arti...ct-s-viability

Pyrophorus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2012, 07:53 PM
  #362
Pyrophorus
Registered User
 
Pyrophorus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Eastern GTA
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,469
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Pyrophorus Send a message via Yahoo to Pyrophorus Send a message via Skype™ to Pyrophorus
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMROWE View Post
MLSE. will take less money for its territory rights from Hamilton just to keep Markham out of the NHL. as for the Sabres they will get nowhere the amount of money MLSE. will get for there territory rights because the Sabres play much further away than the leafs do .

Leafs - 68 km.
Sabres - 112 km.
Don't kid yourself. It won't be a pittance, from either club.
Whoever sets up shop in the Nation, will pay a massive fee.

Pyrophorus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2012, 08:34 PM
  #363
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 20,140
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrophorus View Post
Interesting:
... ya, and O'Connors' absolutely correct IMO, thats reality. There simply arent enough big name touring acts capable of filling that many dates in a building of that size, and if you pare it down to smaller configurations in terms of seating capacities your not turning the same kind of money obviously.

Secondly, you have a suburban location, not the most ideal situation when you consider your competing against the ACC with ease of access via public transit with the subway & or GO terminals and the smaller Ricoh on the CNE grounds, also easy to access by public transit.

Then theres the little matter of the possibility of finding yourself in a bidding war with MLSE over bookings. Thats one battle you'd definitely want to avoid. Absent an anchor tenant, and the AHL sure wont cut it; forget about another NBA franchise; the novelty of a 20 game Arena Football Season & or Lacrosse, without an NHL franchise quite specifically your just treading water, and swallowing plenty of it.

The developers & investors just absolutely have to know this, be fully aware of it, yet their not prepared to admit it publicly, wont do so & then feign "surprise" when Riley calls them out on it in voicing his concerns? Obviously theres' just got to be something going on beneath the surface, behind the curtain, directly with the NHL. Im not buying it, that they think they can just build a state of the art NHL arena & then call it a "Concert & Event Facility". Either the fix is in or these guys are dreaming in technicolor thinking that building isnt going to be a huge drain on their own & the cities resources booking nothing but concerts & events. Good luck with that.

Killion is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2012, 09:00 PM
  #364
Hamilton Tigers
Registered User
 
Hamilton Tigers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,292
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrophorus View Post
Don't kid yourself. It won't be a pittance, from either club.
Whoever sets up shop in the Nation, will pay a massive fee.
I have no idea what that fee would be, but make no mistake, if the league wants to further tap the southern Ontario market, it will be a "reasonable" fee, meaning it will be one that will be lucrative enough for MLSE (and the Sabres if in Hamilton) and not too much so as to burden any substantial revenue generator that would contribute to revenue sharing.

And again, this would be a league decision.

Hamilton Tigers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-20-2012, 10:59 PM
  #365
smitter88
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 127
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamilton Tigers View Post
I have no idea what that fee would be, but make no mistake, if the league wants to further tap the southern Ontario market, it will be a "reasonable" fee, meaning it will be one that will be lucrative enough for MLSE (and the Sabres if in Hamilton) and not too much so as to burden any substantial revenue generator that would contribute to revenue sharing.

And again, this would be a league decision.
But I'd imagine the league (which includes the MLSE and Pegula) would do what their current most affected parties would want. That being said, I think both parties would sign on to Hamilton, and accept ~$40 million.

smitter88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-21-2012, 10:51 AM
  #366
JMROWE
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Hamilton Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 889
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by smitter88 View Post
But I'd imagine the league (which includes the MLSE and Pegula) would do what their current most affected parties would want. That being said, I think both parties would sign on to Hamilton, and accept ~$40 million.
You are probley right MLSE. would be more likely to accept a NHL. team Hamilton rather than Markham because Hamilton would be drawing more people from Niagara Region & southwestern Ontario than the GTA. .

JMROWE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-22-2012, 08:49 AM
  #367
Tyler Myers
Registered User
 
Tyler Myers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sydney
Country: Australia
Posts: 1,280
vCash: 500
I have grown up in Markham and I am excited for the bright future the now city. For those of you who have live in markham or is from the surround area, the arena is supposed to be built between ymca and the new remington apartments on enterprise rd. For all of you who don't know, the location of the arena would make it a >15 minute from the Markham/TO border which is on steeles ave.

TBH I don't see why its Hamilton vs Markham... Southern Ontario is a place that can support more than 2 teams... just look at the two teams in NY and NJ. Markham is alot closer to Toronto and i am pretty sure it would do better financially vs Hamilton but I am good for either city.


Last edited by Tyler Myers: 08-23-2012 at 05:23 AM.
Tyler Myers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-22-2012, 10:13 AM
  #368
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 20,140
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Myers View Post
I have grown up in Markham... TBH I don't see why its Hamilton vs Markham... Southern (mod edit) Ontario is a place that can support more than 2 teams... just look at the two teams in NY and NJ...
... yes I agree Tyler, it shouldnt be a case of one or the other, it should be both, and if it was my call, Id be planting teams in Markham & Hamilton simultaneously. BAM!. Just get it done in one fell swoop. Markham & the NorthEastern section of the GTA will absolutely support en masse' an NHL franchise, insuring the viability of the arena, creating an interesting & exciting rivalry with the Leafs, Hamilton & to a lesser extent Ottawa & the rest of the Canadian teams.

Hamilton too, with well over 2.5 million++ people & a sizeable corporate base from Oakville to Guelph & K/W is an absolute no brainer, again with only positive natural rivalries with Markham & Toronto, creating a bridge, the missing link in a Southern Ontario vs. Buffalo rivalry which really since 1970 & the Sabres entry into the league hasnt gelled with the Leafs. Expansion Fee's would arrive unencumbered, with indemnification fee's for the Leafs & Buffalo (from Hamilton). Relocation by an existing team would be my last resort in terms of filling one of the 2 open spots in Southern Ontario, but if a buyer & home cant be found for whichever franchise does need to relo, then just get it done.

Should be noted that Im a Leafs fan, and Im a Contractionist. Fact of is thats just not going to happen, the leagues not about to fold teams. Fix what we've got with 30 & expand further by 2-4 teams over the next decade.

Killion is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-22-2012, 08:16 PM
  #369
Northern Dancer
Registered User
 
Northern Dancer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: 3km From the ACC
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,859
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMROWE View Post
You are probley right MLSE. would be more likely to accept a NHL. team Hamilton rather than Markham because Hamilton would be drawing more people from Niagara Region & southwestern Ontario than the GTA. .
I really don't think MLSE is to concerned about which location may draw more Leaf fans. There is a plethora of Leaf fans. As long as they get thier pound of flesh, territorial rights, they would be OK with teams in both markets.

Northern Dancer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-22-2012, 09:52 PM
  #370
JMROWE
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Hamilton Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 889
vCash: 500
For the 2nd year in a row Hamilton is voted the best place in which to invest in in Ontario .

JMROWE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-23-2012, 11:11 AM
  #371
aqib
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,328
vCash: 500
Its funny, the conference board of Canada has been pushing for Hamilton, while Bill Daly seems to be indicating the league is more interested in GTA.

I am in the camp of both!

aqib is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-23-2012, 11:58 AM
  #372
JMROWE
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Hamilton Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 889
vCash: 500
Bill Daly (mod edit) does not speak for the entire NHL. & it is quite obvious that Bill Daily still has a chip on shoulder about Hamilton because of the Balsille fiasco in Phoenix . There where reasons why the confrence board of canada said Hamilton is a more viable market to put another NHL. team in southern ontario than Markham (Toronto) .


Last edited by Killion: 08-23-2012 at 12:42 PM. Reason: ...intemperate.
JMROWE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2012, 11:01 PM
  #373
aqib
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,328
vCash: 500
Joey Vendetta sitting in for Tim and Sid on Fan 590 will be discussing the Markham Arena tomorrow.

aqib is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-31-2012, 06:32 AM
  #374
GuelphStormer
Registered User
 
GuelphStormer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Guelph, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,583
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMROWE View Post
For the 2nd year in a row Hamilton is voted the best place in which to invest in in Ontario .
source?

GuelphStormer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-31-2012, 08:01 AM
  #375
AdmiralsFan24
Registered User
 
AdmiralsFan24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Hartland, Wisconsin
Country: United States
Posts: 4,687
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to AdmiralsFan24
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuelphStormer View Post
source?
http://www.investinhamilton.ca/hamil...ace-to-invest/

AdmiralsFan24 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:38 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.