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Thank God It's Over (The Official Offseason Talk Thread) III

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08-23-2012, 12:10 AM
  #476
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Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
Setoguchi is fine as the #6 scoring option.

I am more concerned with Granlund becoming the #4 scoring option and somebody fitting on that 2nd line and being the #5 option. Healthy Bouchard? Island-man Cullen? Brodziak moved to winger? A prospect out-of-the-blue?
If Granlund makes it Seto will come out as a scorer again.

Granlund has never had anyone like Seto to feed.

Im not counting in Bouchard in the scoring department, Parise, Heatley and Seto should make those missing goals.

I hope if Coyle or someone else is strong in camp that Bouchard is moved as Fletcher promised

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08-23-2012, 12:19 AM
  #477
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No offense to those who love Bouchard but I really wish we could do a one for one swap for a Power Forward on a one year deal. I wouldn't mind taking on salary in a deal either. A Bouchard - Granlund - Setoguchi line (or even swap out Bouchard for Cullen) looks really bad on paper. I was looking at Cap Geek and a trade like I'm thinking, doesn't really look available. I wouldn't want more than a one year deal because we're tying up future salary and that free space next year gives us a lot of flexibility and opportunity to improve again.

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08-23-2012, 12:30 AM
  #478
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Originally Posted by Utterly Disgusting View Post
No offense to those who love Bouchard but I really wish we could do a one for one swap for a Power Forward on a one year deal. I wouldn't mind taking on salary in a deal either. A Bouchard - Granlund - Setoguchi line (or even swap out Bouchard for Cullen) looks really bad on paper. I was looking at Cap Geek and a trade like I'm thinking, doesn't really look available. I wouldn't want more than a one year deal because we're tying up future salary and that free space next year gives us a lot of flexibility and opportunity to improve again.
I'd love to make a one for one swap of this $1 bill for your $100 bill too, but that's only about 10 times more likely than what you suggest. I highly doubt we'll see a Butch-Granlund-Seto line much anyway. Despite Parise's desire to be on a line with Koivu and Heatley, I expect a Parise-Koivu-Bouchard top line with Heatley-Granlund-Seto bringing up the rest of the top 6.

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08-23-2012, 12:56 AM
  #479
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
I'd love to make a one for one swap of this $1 bill for your $100 bill too, but that's only about 10 times more likely than what you suggest. I highly doubt we'll see a Butch-Granlund-Seto line much anyway. Despite Parise's desire to be on a line with Koivu and Heatley, I expect a Parise-Koivu-Bouchard top line with Heatley-Granlund-Seto bringing up the rest of the top 6.


I get the point of your first sentence but where did I say, I was delusional enough to think such a trade was realistic? It was more or less, me hoping such a trade was available but taking into account Bouchard's concussions nobody would make that trade.

Time will tell about the lines, right? I know Yeo envisions "Parise-Koivu-Heatley" together on the top line but that doesn't mean they'll coalesce the greatest either. But Heatley does make a ton of sense on the top line. But going by your second line, Granlund setting up Heatley would be amazing to witness as well.

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08-23-2012, 01:00 AM
  #480
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Originally Posted by WildFinn View Post
If Granlund makes it Seto will come out as a scorer again.

Granlund has never had anyone like Seto to feed.

Im not counting in Bouchard in the scoring department, Parise, Heatley and Seto should make those missing goals.

I hope if Coyle or someone else is strong in camp that Bouchard is moved as Fletcher promised
When did he ever promise to move Bouchard?

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08-23-2012, 01:21 AM
  #481
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
I'd love to make a one for one swap of this $1 bill for your $100 bill too, but that's only about 10 times more likely than what you suggest. I highly doubt we'll see a Butch-Granlund-Seto line much anyway. Despite Parise's desire to be on a line with Koivu and Heatley, I expect a Parise-Koivu-Bouchard top line with Heatley-Granlund-Seto bringing up the rest of the top 6.
Heatley-Granlund-Seto i dont think will work best IMO.

Heatley-Koivu-Bouchard

Parise-Granlund-Seto

could work.

Other possible lines.

Heatley-Granlund-Coyle

Larsson-Granlund-Seto


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08-23-2012, 01:26 AM
  #482
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When did he ever promise to move Bouchard?
Didnt he say he will make room if someone does well in camp?
Larsson or Coyle are certainly possible.

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08-23-2012, 01:36 AM
  #483
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Originally Posted by WildFinn View Post
Didnt he say he will make room if someone does well in camp?
Larsson or Coyle are certainly possible.
"Make room" and "trade Bouchard" are two completely unrelated ideas, and it's bewildering to imagine where one would see a link.

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08-23-2012, 01:49 AM
  #484
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
"Make room" and "trade Bouchard" are two completely unrelated ideas, and it's bewildering to imagine where one would see a link.
You dont see anyone fighting for his place?

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08-23-2012, 01:52 AM
  #485
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For the record, Bouchard is healthy and ready for the upcoming season.

There's absolutely no way a rookie will take his spot. Every prospect will go to Houston and start the season there. (Except Granlund obviously)

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08-23-2012, 01:59 AM
  #486
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Originally Posted by Fel 96 View Post
For the record, Bouchard is healthy and ready for the upcoming season.

There's absolutely no way a rookie will take his spot. Every prospect will go to Houston and start the season there. (Except Granlund obviously)
I guess i have to take your word for it as you guys seem so sure.

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08-23-2012, 02:10 AM
  #487
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Oh yes I am.

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Old
08-23-2012, 02:20 AM
  #488
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It doesn't matter how well anyone expects Bouchard to play, Fletcher has never said anything about trading him. It simply won't happen anyway because Bouchard has more value to this team sitting in the press box than he has trade value. It's ludicrous to suggest he be traded because I'm sure that conditional 7th rounder is going to get us a lot. If he can't beat out a rookie, why would anyone even consider trading for him for even a fraction of a second?

If a rookie earns a spot in camp, it's going to be a fourth liner sitting in the press box or heading down to Houston, not a trade of "the guy who got beat." Those trades almost never happen. You can count on one hand the number of actual trades over the past 5 years that occurred between training camp and December 1st across the entire league. They just don't happen, and they're certainly not going to start happening this season.

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08-23-2012, 09:02 AM
  #489
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I think a Parise-Koivu-Heatley line would be too badass to break-up. And Setoguchi-Granlund seems like a good fit.

And Granlund-Bouchard might be very very slippery despite their size. They both like the small passes in tight areas. They could have defenders spinning while Setoguchi gets open for the shot.

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08-23-2012, 12:43 PM
  #490
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If Butch and Granlund are on the same line, their cycling would be deadly. But the other opponents would be too. If you're gonna pair those two together you need a Corey Perry, James Neal, Scott Hartnell, etc. to be their other winger. Someone to not only bury the puck, plant themselves in front of the net and to go to the corners... But to protect them as well. We don't have one of those right now.

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08-23-2012, 12:56 PM
  #491
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Personally, I think a Parise-Koivu-Bouchard line sounds a lot better than Parise-Koivu-Heatley. We all know that Koivu and Butch work extremely well together on a line. Adding Parise as the finisher for those two just sounds too enticing to me. Then you add on the idea of Heatley-Granlund-Seto as a second line and things just get even more attractive.

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08-23-2012, 02:04 PM
  #492
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Originally Posted by Generic User View Post
If Butch and Granlund are on the same line, their cycling would be deadly. But the other opponents would be too. If you're gonna pair those two together you need a Corey Perry, James Neal, Scott Hartnell, etc. to be their other winger. Someone to not only bury the puck, plant themselves in front of the net and to go to the corners... But to protect them as well. We don't have one of those right now.
My fear exactly, i want Granlund to succeed as a center, not put him in a position to fail as a rookie.

Setoguchi is good with his speed getting in a position or a breakaway with a leathal shot. I dont see him as a puck posession guy carrying it to the offensive zone but i like him alot.

The other guy needs to be good in posession, checker, passer, fast, strong, skilled and goes to the net and and boards and be also reliable defencively.

I admit i would like him to even fight but that is asking too much.

Parise fits the bill, Bouchard doesnt mostly, Heatley is not so two way and not very fast.

Larsson fits, i would like to see him in the future next to Granlund.

Flame away but i think they match like Coyle and Phillips.

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08-23-2012, 02:17 PM
  #493
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Personally, I think a Parise-Koivu-Bouchard line sounds a lot better than Parise-Koivu-Heatley. We all know that Koivu and Butch work extremely well together on a line. Adding Parise as the finisher for those two just sounds too enticing to me. Then you add on the idea of Heatley-Granlund-Seto as a second line and things just get even more attractive.
IMO, I don't think Parise is exactly a 'finisher'. That's one thing NJ fans have right. He scores 30-40 a year, but it's mostly grinding pick up the garbage goals (which, I have NO problem with, it doesn't take away from his talent). Anyways, I think BOTH lines work out, but I totally see your point in that Koivu and PMB work well together.

One thing I keep wondering is PMB's (non)ability to defend well. It's not so much a positional thing as it is a size thing. I'm wondering if having PMB and Seto on the same line creates quite a lapse in defense.

PMB has a GREAT underrated shot, and Seto has a hell of a shot too, so if Granlund can gel with them and they simply heat up on offense, maybe the defense thing won't matter.

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08-23-2012, 02:31 PM
  #494
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IMO, I don't think Parise is exactly a 'finisher'. That's one thing NJ fans have right. He scores 30-40 a year, but it's mostly grinding pick up the garbage goals (which, I have NO problem with, it doesn't take away from his talent). Anyways, I think BOTH lines work out, but I totally see your point in that Koivu and PMB work well together.

One thing I keep wondering is PMB's (non)ability to defend well. It's not so much a positional thing as it is a size thing. I'm wondering if having PMB and Seto on the same line creates quite a lapse in defense.

PMB has a GREAT underrated shot, and Seto has a hell of a shot too, so if Granlund can gel with them and they simply heat up on offense, maybe the defense thing won't matter.
Like i wrote above, i think it matters, it puts Granlund in a position to defend in his own and fail.

And Parise and Koivu need a shooter, Heatley or Seto.

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08-23-2012, 02:44 PM
  #495
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IMO, I don't think Parise is exactly a 'finisher'. That's one thing NJ fans have right. He scores 30-40 a year, but it's mostly grinding pick up the garbage goals (which, I have NO problem with, it doesn't take away from his talent). Anyways, I think BOTH lines work out, but I totally see your point in that Koivu and PMB work well together.

One thing I keep wondering is PMB's (non)ability to defend well. It's not so much a positional thing as it is a size thing. I'm wondering if having PMB and Seto on the same line creates quite a lapse in defense.

PMB has a GREAT underrated shot, and Seto has a hell of a shot too, so if Granlund can gel with them and they simply heat up on offense, maybe the defense thing won't matter.
Parise's goal scoring style is very similar to Heatley's at this point in Heater's career. You can't have two players picking up the garbage goals on the same line (well, not effectively at least) because there's only so many opportunities to do so. That's my biggest concern, both Parise and Heatley like to occupy the same space on the ice, so they likely won't mesh as well as that line with Butch on it.

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08-23-2012, 02:56 PM
  #496
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Compromise?

Heatley-Koivu-Bouchard

Parise-Granlund-Setoguchi

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08-23-2012, 03:01 PM
  #497
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Heatley and Setoguchi as opposing wingers = Yuck.

Setoguchi plays best when he's got a good center and he's the winger who takes the shots. When he feels like he should be passing, that's when he fails.

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08-23-2012, 03:02 PM
  #498
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Compromise?

Heatley-Koivu-Bouchard

Parise-Granlund-Setoguchi
Why? Not to mention that leaves Seto (at 6' even) as the biggest player on his line.

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08-23-2012, 03:14 PM
  #499
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The thing i just typed up... Unfinished, though, so if it seems to end without a conclusion, sorry.
Think outside of the box for a moment and recall what makes a line great.

Forward lines need;
Power Forward, one who goes to the net, gets his nose dirty.
Play maker.
Shooter.

Ideally, one of those roles should be defensively responsible.

A power forward isn't necessarily a big guy, but it would be beneficial. A play maker needs to be the go-to guy on figuring out where the play will develop. The shooter needs to be lethal with his shot.

Our current roster breaking it down;
Power Forward: Parise, Brodziak
Play Maker: Koivu, Bouchard, Granlund
Shooter: Heatley, Setoguchi

In putting Brodizak in this list, it balances matters. Last season, I would have put Cullen here, but Brodziak has shown that his game has grown above that of Cullen.

I would contend that it is giving him the benefit of a doubt to place Seto as a "shooter". My rationale for putting Parise in as a power forward is that is where he went in a few games I reviewed from last season.

Out of that list, the most defensively responsible are Koivu, Parise and Brodziak. Heatley really turned up his defensive game during the Wild's tank-fest, so he would be loosely thrown into that category.

Yeo has stated that he wants to go with Parise - Koivu - Heatley as his top line. If you accept the concept as outline above, this line is PF - PM - S. Going further down this conceptual path will show that putting those players on the same line will cause imbalance on the other. It also shows that maybe one of the other players needs to step down to the third line.

The line of Setoguchi - Granlund - Bouchard shows up as a S-PM-PM without a defensive minded player on the line. Moving one of the play makers in place of Heatley on the top line throws imbalance into the top line. This also plays Seto out of his natural RW slot. Introduce as the 2nd line center, and more balance shows up.

Parise - Koivu - Setoguchi = Still balanced with PF-PM-S
Heatley - Granlund - Brodziak = Newly balanced 2nd line with S-PM-PF

You could easily swap players on these lines to attempt to play to their strengths.

This puts Bouchard down to the third line, which also allows for moving Clutterbuck to the LW, where he flourishes. It also has the added benefit of Cullen and Bouchard having had chemistry early last season. Of course, Koivu-Bouchard combination has shown chemistry in the past, but we can fall back on that later.

The third line would be:
Clutterbuck - Cullen - Bouchard

My opinion on where to utilize Granlund was tossed out in this concept. I would prefer to see him start out a bit more... Sheltered. In which case, my second line would be: Heatley - Brodziak - Bouchard
I'll have to get back to it later tonight to finish my thoughts... Sorry, been swamped with things lately.

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08-23-2012, 03:22 PM
  #500
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Why? Not to mention that leaves Seto (at 6' even) as the biggest player on his line.
I wrote before, Parise fits better that Heatley

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