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08-23-2012, 10:34 AM
  #26
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Add to that that we've actually seen some players get hurt embellishing (see Sami Salo last year against Marchand), and there's really no justification for it. This needs to be taken out of the league.

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08-23-2012, 10:35 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Bill Ladd View Post
Good news!

But I think it's going to take a lot more than a list on a locker room bulletin board. These guys should be fined (whether the penalty is called or not), and repeat offenders should be suspended.
Agreed, but the players seem to be talking about things they can do, and operating on the baldfaced presumption that the refs won't do crap about this.

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08-23-2012, 10:49 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoss75 View Post
There are a lot of players that dive for 'gamesmanship'. Most I would say. But I think part of the problem is that there are a lot of players that embellish because they can't get calls. Chara had the 'dives' a couple seasons back for several weeks, and it wasn't because another player didn't try to reenact Lincoln's youth with Chara's legs as the cherry tree. The guy just doesn't go do easy, and so it wasn't a call.
Don't get me wrong. It's still not justified in my book. But I do think a third of these embellishments are due to player frustration at officials missing too much or more likely over-thinking things.
The refs need to get over the he's too big, or he's too mean, or he's got too much of a bad rep so I must not have seen him on the wrong side of a penalty attitude.
Uh that was Washington who cut down the tree [though he really didn't]. Lincoln split rails for fences in his youth [true].

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08-23-2012, 10:50 AM
  #29
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Glad this is happening. Montreal and Vancouver might not piss me off as much.

Let's not be overly bias, when I saw Seguin dive I puked. Plus, Marchand dives quite a bit himself... I would love to see them quit it. Win-win.

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08-23-2012, 10:53 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
Not sure if this is related or not but Montreal announced it is leaving the NHL.

Vancouver is expected to follow.
I would add Tampa Bay or at least Stamkos remember Claude screaming at the Refs don't touch Stamkos ...

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08-23-2012, 10:54 AM
  #31
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This does not bode well for Montrecouver or Vantreal.

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08-23-2012, 10:55 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by BergyWho37 View Post
I would add Tampa Bay or at least Stamkos remember Claude screaming at the Refs don't touch Stamkos ...
Stamkos got his karmic retribution in Game 7 off that deflected shot from Boychuk.

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08-23-2012, 11:08 AM
  #33
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how bout instead of making a list of players and going into games with a bias against them re: diving, the refs just call it when they see it? (and NOT call it a matching penalty every time)

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08-23-2012, 11:11 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
Stamkos got his karmic retribution in Game 7 off that deflected shot from Boychuk.
Yep I bet that felt good

Refs also helped him last year .. The last 10 games was a joke lets call penalties so Stamkos can get more goals

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08-23-2012, 11:12 AM
  #35
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I never understood the matching penalty call. If it was a dive than the other player never committed a penalty in the first place.

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08-23-2012, 11:26 AM
  #36
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08-23-2012, 11:44 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by BudMovin View Post
I never understood the matching penalty call. If it was a dive than the other player never committed a penalty in the first place.
Absolutely.

Why I'm so skeptical. Players can say what they want. In the end the ref has to make the call. Will they?

Rule has already been around for quite a while. Has it not?

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08-23-2012, 12:14 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ladd View Post
Glad it's being addressed, but a list isn't severe enough, IMO.

Solution: Make diving a 5 minute major.

No player is going to risk a 5 minute major for a 2 minute PP. No coach is going to want to be put in that situation either. Even if they continue to call diving as infrequently as they do, the threat of a major penalty should be severe enough to make players think twice.

The problem won't be solved until the punishment is harsher than the reward.
I would be on board with this but I don't see the refs calling it if it is that drastic (which is another problem itself) I have always wanted it to be a doubleminor. That way the first one even's out with the infraction "causing" the dive and it is a minor for the dive itself.

No player is going to risk that late in a meaningful game to dive and possible end up short handed.

Right now there is no risk. Wost case is they call both and it is 4 on 4 late in a meaningful game.

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08-23-2012, 12:35 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by BMC View Post
Uh that was Washington who cut down the tree [though he really didn't]. Lincoln split rails for fences in his youth [true].

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I'm now realizing my dependence on coffee has gotten out of control.

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08-23-2012, 01:32 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Neely08 View Post
Absolutely.

Why I'm so skeptical. Players can say what they want. In the end the ref has to make the call. Will they?

Rule has already been around for quite a while. Has it not?
This is exactly why its gotten worse over the years

Lets make up rules but never CALL THEM

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08-23-2012, 03:24 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BudMovin View Post
I never understood the matching penalty call. If it was a dive than the other player never committed a penalty in the first place.
Not defending diving, but it is possible to embellish a legitimate penalty.

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08-23-2012, 03:37 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roll 4 Lines View Post
Not defending diving, but it is possible to embellish a legitimate penalty.
Those cases aren't the problem though IMO.

If it's a legitimate penalty that should be called and a guy wants to act like a jackwagon and flop around, then more power to him. Have fun looking like an *******, it was going to be called anyways and has no real effect on the outcome of the game.

If someone flops and gets a call that SHOULDN'T have been called? That has an impact on the outcome of the game, and THAT I care about.

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08-23-2012, 04:22 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ladd View Post
Solution: Make diving a 5 minute major.
And if the refs get a call wrong, then what?

A 5 min PK instead of a 2 min PP is kind of a game changer ...

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08-23-2012, 04:24 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
Not sure if this is related or not but Montreal announced it is leaving the NHL.

Vancouver is expected to follow.
Whatever will the twins do ??

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08-23-2012, 04:27 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BudMovin View Post
I never understood the matching penalty call. If it was a dive than the other player never committed a penalty in the first place.
I agree. Is it a trip ???...or a dive It shouldn't be both

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08-23-2012, 04:30 PM
  #46
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The problem with diving is that the refs see a lot of things that werent actually a dive.

If they make it a 5 or 10 or wtv minutes penalty the whining around the lague will reach epic porpotions.

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08-23-2012, 04:39 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
Add to that that we've actually seen some players get hurt embellishing (see Sami Salo last year against Marchand), and there's really no justification for it. This needs to be taken out of the league.
Take off your homer glasses for a second and watch the play again

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Old
08-23-2012, 10:47 PM
  #48
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Take off your homer glasses for a second and watch the play again
Odds are Dojji hasn't seen it a first time....

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Old
08-24-2012, 02:29 AM
  #49
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Marchand is the guy that Boston fans have to worry about. I love his game, but I hate his diving.

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Old
08-24-2012, 03:27 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Lucic View Post
Glad this is happening. Montreal and Vancouver might not piss me off as much.

Let's not be overly bias, when I saw Seguin dive I puked. Plus, Marchand dives quite a bit himself... I would love to see them quit it. Win-win.
They are the smallest guys. I hate it more when a bigger player dives. Its tough to get knocked off the puck after a long hockey shift usually you fall out of frustration. And there is an inherent frustration of being on the receiving end of the punishment all the time from being smaller and it results in a tendancy to go down easier and turn your head to the ref immediately regardless of whether its clean or not.

Brad and Tyler really aren't too bad about it and they are sort fo the only ones. I'd be a lot more critical of someone like Horton if he dove frequently.



As to the post. Its a tough call for refs. Particularly in a home arena. WHat you'll end up seeing if a new rule comes in is a ton of matching penalties on the dive and the contact that caused it.

Are there NHL refs with the balls to call a dive on the Habs in Montreal when their fans play the refs for calls like a trumpet? They ooh and ahh and scream murder the second a hab goes down. Tough call to make. So it'll get called against other teams whose fans don't do it but dives will never get called against the home team in Montreal. Never no matter how stringent the rule and they'll do it just as often.

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