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Old
08-23-2012, 10:14 AM
  #51
Blackhawkswincup
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I dont like it from Hawks perspective

Never been a fan of MaCarthur and dont have high opinion of Fransen

Hawks uprade slightly at forward but downgrade significantly on D ,, Not worth it for Hawks as D is already weak enough

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryU View Post
Not sure Franson adds much...I'd like Connolly IF Hawks could get 60 games out of him..
Frolik would have to go Toronto's way to take chance on Connolly

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Old
08-23-2012, 10:50 AM
  #52
416Leafer
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As a Leafs fan I would be all over this. You could take both MacArthur and Franson off the team tomorrow, and get nothing in return, and I dont think it would negatively affect us in the standings at all. Theres a reason why theyre included in 90% of Leafs trade proposals.

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08-23-2012, 11:09 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW View Post
I like the base of the deal but Franson is still young with potential, and can play a 2nd pairing role now. Right now skill wise, its a fair trade off, but i think CHI may have to add a pick as insurance to even it out.
I agree with this.

I'd be fine with adding another 2nd pairing stay at home D, I think we need another one anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 416Leafer
As a Leafs fan I would be all over this. You could take both MacArthur and Franson off the team tomorrow, and get nothing in return, and I dont think it would negatively affect us in the standings at all. Theres a reason why theyre included in 90% of Leafs trade proposals.
Franson - fine. But MaC still holds value. The reason why people think he doesn't is that there are more Leaf fans, and silly Leaf fans at that, posting proposals with his name because he's one of the expendables for us. You could make the case that we might net even on the trade - score fewer but allow less, with the subtraction of a 50 pt player and the addition of a quality 2nd pairing stay at home defenseman, but Clarke's put up 100 pts over the last 2 seasons. That has value, despite how many proposals he's in.

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Old
08-23-2012, 11:11 AM
  #54
416Leafer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubplatepressure View Post
I agree with this.

I'd be fine with adding another 2nd pairing stay at home D, I think we need another one anyway.



Franson - fine. But MaC still holds value. The reason why people think he doesn't is that there are more Leaf fans, and silly Leaf fans at that, posting proposals with his name because he's one of the expendables for us. You could make the case that we might net even on the trade - score fewer but allow less, with the subtraction of a 50 pt player and the addition of a quality 2nd pairing stay at home defenseman, but Clarke's put up 100 pts over the last 2 seasons. That has value, despite how many proposals he's in.
My point was that he could be off the team, and Kadri could fill his place tomorrow and very likely play just as well as Mac has here, with potential for more. He's very much "expendable" because of our depth on the wing + his lack of intangibles.

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08-23-2012, 12:03 PM
  #55
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Done Deal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
To Toronto:
Niklas Hjalmarsson, D

To Chicago:
Clarke MacArthur, W
Cody Franson, D

Toronto gets a defenseman who can be used in match-up situations, on the PK, and in all other key defensive situations. He looks like a good partner for Dion Phaneuf. With young kids looking ready to come in, moving out MacArthur to make room makes sense. Nazem Kadri might be able to put up as many points in a full season.

Chicago really needs to add some support talent to play with their big-4. While MacArthur isn't an impact player, he's a guy who will be able to put up points in a secondary scoring role. The emergence of Nick Leddy and the addition of Johnny Oduya make Hjalmarsson somewhat expendable. Franson comes in to play 3rd pairing and help on the 2nd PP unit.
Good trade and would do it in a second.

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Old
08-23-2012, 12:21 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobloblawLeaf View Post
He didn't put up "major points" between Kessel and Lupul.
True but he is much more suited in a secondary role then a first line role. When he played him Buffalo he did much better when he was not the go to guy. In Toronto on a line with Kessel and Lupul we are expecting him to be the #1 C when he is more of less a second line C. In Chicago he would be behind Toews.

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Old
08-23-2012, 12:26 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
I dont like it from Hawks perspective

Frolik would have to go Toronto's way to take chance on Connolly
Can you tell me a bit about Frolik? I mean he is not much of a goal scorer/ point producer but can he do PK/grinding? I looked up his size on TSN and he seems to be somewhat big so will he throw his weight around?

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Old
08-23-2012, 01:05 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobloblawLeaf View Post
Unless JVR sticks at center, even if we move Macarthur there won't be a top-6 spot open on wing:

Lupul-Bozak-Kessel
JVR-Grabo-Kulemin
Kadri-Mcclement-Connolly/Frattin
Komarov-Steckel-Brown

I could see us going with this line-up, and having these PP lines however:

PP1:
Lupul-Kadri-Kessel

PP2:
JVR-Grabo-Kulemin
Kulemin can definitely play on the third line. After the season he had offensively, starting him out on the third line over Kadri would probably make more sense. It's not like the third line can't score goals either.

To start the season, since Frattin won't likely be healthy in October (In the situation where there is no lock-out )

Lupul - Bozak - Kessel
Van Riemsdyk - Grabovski - Kadri
Kulemin - McClement - Connolly
Komarov - Steckel - Brown

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Old
08-23-2012, 01:13 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystifo View Post
Can you tell me a bit about Frolik? I mean he is not much of a goal scorer/ point producer but can he do PK/grinding? I looked up his size on TSN and he seems to be somewhat big so will he throw his weight around?
His defensive game has flourished in Chicago- I still wouldn't call him a shutdown guy, but he's gone from
an F to a B- or so in terms of defense- hes responsible, willing to take hits in order to make plays... but his offense has all but vanishes. He has the ability to create chances on his own, he's just unable to do much with them. Not a physical guy or a hitter, but can definitely be a menace.

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Old
08-23-2012, 02:57 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystifo View Post
Can you tell me a bit about Frolik? I mean he is not much of a goal scorer/ point producer but can he do PK/grinding? I looked up his size on TSN and he seems to be somewhat big so will he throw his weight around?
He does not throw his weight around ,, No this style

But he has improved as a PK player and can play 2nd unit time. He has also had his best success on Hawks as 3rd liner with Bolland/Bickell as his linemates

Offensively he has weak shot and is snakebitten often. His effort is there just cant convert

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Old
08-23-2012, 03:15 PM
  #61
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Hjalmarsson and Franson are basically a wash but I prefer Franson because IMO his offensive upside is better. Why the Leafs have to include a decent forward coming off back to back 20 goal seasons to get this done is beyond me.

Definitely a no-go from Toronto.

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Old
08-23-2012, 03:21 PM
  #62
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This is basically just Hammer for Mac, I don't really see any value in Franson. Even at that, the value isn't bad, but creates a hole on the hawks D and doesn't really fill a need up front. For Chicago, this only makes it harder for the kids to get a chance on the team.

Looking for players more like Zajac, Weiss, Pavelski, etc.

Obv not gonna get them for just Hammer though.

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Old
08-23-2012, 03:25 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
Hjalmarsson and Franson are basically a wash but I prefer Franson because IMO his offensive upside is better. Why the Leafs have to include a decent forward coming off back to back 20 goal seasons to get this done is beyond me.

Definitely a no-go from Toronto.
Not a wash at all.

Hammer every time over Franson.

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Old
08-23-2012, 03:29 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLinden16 View Post
Not a wash at all.

Hammer every time over Franson.
I disagree, Hammer isn't that good.

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Old
08-23-2012, 03:33 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
I'd say yes as a Hawks fan. Why would the Leafs do this?
Burke has indicated that he would like to add another defensive minded D to our lineup, and Franson is, on most nights, our extra D.

We also need to clear up some space upfront to give both Kadri and Frattin real shots at making some impact. While it seems like an overpayment from our side to me, it makes sense for us, and I'd do it.

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Old
08-23-2012, 03:49 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
He does not throw his weight around ,, No this style

But he has improved as a PK player and can play 2nd unit time. He has also had his best success on Hawks as 3rd liner with Bolland/Bickell as his linemates

Offensively he has weak shot and is snakebitten often. His effort is there just cant convert
I would not mind Frolik the problem is we have guys like Lombardi sitting around as well who can do that third line as well. I would be tempted as I am a fan of Hammer and would like him on the leafs I feel like he would make a good shutdown pair with Gunner in the future and on the PK. Throw out a perposal with Connolly going back the other way if you don't mind.

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Old
08-23-2012, 04:18 PM
  #67
Marvelous Manked
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I like this deal.

Props to the OP.

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Old
08-23-2012, 04:40 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
I disagree, Hammer isn't that good.
And Franson is even worse.

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08-23-2012, 04:46 PM
  #69
Tyler Biggs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystifo View Post
Can you tell me a bit about Frolik? I mean he is not much of a goal scorer/ point producer but can he do PK/grinding? I looked up his size on TSN and he seems to be somewhat big so will he throw his weight around?
He doesn't throw his weight around and he is not a PK guy. His game is all about offense yet he is not producing a whole lot. He is inconsistent.

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Old
08-23-2012, 04:46 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
And Franson is even worse.
Not really IMO, at least Franson possesses an offensive skill set and does put up some points.

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Old
08-23-2012, 04:51 PM
  #71
Tyler Biggs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobloblawLeaf View Post
He didn't put up "major points" between Kessel and Lupul.
He didn't play between them, Bozak did. If Connolly had played between Kessel and Lupul like we brought him in to do so, he would have had a more productive season.

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Old
08-23-2012, 04:51 PM
  #72
Hawkaholic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
Not really IMO, at least Franson possesses an offensive skill set and does put up some points.
At least Hammer plays solid D, and can still move the puck well.

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Old
08-23-2012, 04:55 PM
  #73
Tyler Biggs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
As a Leafs fan I would be all over this. You could take both MacArthur and Franson off the team tomorrow, and get nothing in return, and I dont think it would negatively affect us in the standings at all. Theres a reason why theyre included in 90% of Leafs trade proposals.
I disagree. We would be weakening our lineup if we gave Macarthur and Franson away for nothing. Franson is our #5 D man, and Macarthur is a top 6 forward on our team.

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Old
08-23-2012, 05:00 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
My point was that he could be off the team, and Kadri could fill his place tomorrow and very likely play just as well as Mac has here, with potential for more. He's very much "expendable" because of our depth on the wing + his lack of intangibles.
Kadri needs to prove he can be just as good if not better then Mac otherwise we are just weakening our lineup if we get rid of Mac to make room for Kadri.

I don't want us moving out our vets until the young guys prove themselves and make the vets expendable, at this point they haven't done that.

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Old
08-23-2012, 06:18 PM
  #75
thebluemachine*
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
At least Hammer plays solid D, and can still move the puck well.

So Hammer is solid defensively now but he wasn't only a few posts back according to you?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
There is nothing similar between Seabrook and Hjalmarsson.

People keep acting like Hjalmarsson is this physical machine that lays every body out all the time, and uses his size to his advantage.
he isn't even that great defensively. He plays his position well, but get's caught flat footed or leaving men out in front of the net a lot.

The guy also had a lousy 42 hits last year.

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