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Old
08-23-2012, 09:35 AM
  #226
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I don't know that he's their franchise player. He's going to be a very good player, but I don't see any reason to believe that he'll be better than Yakupov or Nugent-Hopkins.
He's not paid like a franchise player either...his average salary will be 6M per year, that's not even half of a max contract

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08-23-2012, 09:39 AM
  #227
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
Have you ever seen Kaberle play? He's a better forward than a defenseman. Points aren't everything.

As for Diaz and Emelin I hope they progress but most players go through a soft more slump, not get better in their second year.

I'd like nothing more than for us to have everything go perfect next year but it's not likely with our current D corp.
Points aren't everything but Kaberle is still solid defensively when he is in shape. With Toronto he was playing a lot of tough minutes and he never had bad +- numbers despite playing on non playoff teams. Just because he isn't a punishing hitter you equate that as being bad defensively. Lidstrom never had a hit on the TSN highlights but he was good defensively because of his hockey sense and anticipation, Kaberle and Markov play the same way. Not saying Kaberle is as good defensively as Listrom was but he isn't the MA Bergeron liability you describe him as.

Last year most of the team looked bad in the second half, guys not buying in to Cunneyworth's system, too many 1 goal losses and an obvious "malaise" around the team. I think if Therien can change the attitude from day 1 a lot of guys will be a lot better namely Bourque Kaberle Plekanec, adding a leader like Gionta and a stud like Markov(healthy) should also be a big plus.

I don't see any reason Emelin and Diaz would have a "sophmore slump", they had their growing pains last year being "thrown into the fire" very early due to injuries. They are not 19-20-21 year old kids they have been in pro hockey 6-7 years. The NA and NHL adjustments are over, I expect a pretty big jump in production from both.

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08-23-2012, 10:04 AM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Points aren't everything but Kaberle is still solid defensively when he is in shape. With Toronto he was playing a lot of tough minutes and he never had bad +- numbers despite playing on non playoff teams. Just because he isn't a punishing hitter you equate that as being bad defensively. Lidstrom never had a hit on the TSN highlights but he was good defensively because of his hockey sense and anticipation, Kaberle and Markov play the same way. Not saying Kaberle is as good defensively as Listrom was but he isn't the MA Bergeron liability you describe him as.

Last year most of the team looked bad in the second half, guys not buying in to Cunneyworth's system, too many 1 goal losses and an obvious "malaise" around the team. I think if Therien can change the attitude from day 1 a lot of guys will be a lot better namely Bourque Kaberle Plekanec, adding a leader like Gionta and a stud like Markov(healthy) should also be a big plus.

I don't see any reason Emelin and Diaz would have a "sophmore slump", they had their growing pains last year being "thrown into the fire" very early due to injuries. They are not 19-20-21 year old kids they have been in pro hockey 6-7 years. The NA and NHL adjustments are over, I expect a pretty big jump in production from both.
http://youtu.be/82K59UETcTc

WROOONG.

But ya, Kaberle is not that bad of a defender, he was just in horrible shape in Carolina.

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08-23-2012, 11:31 AM
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mt_mtl View Post
What's a 'soft more slump'??
Predictive text on my iPhone. Sophomore slump...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Points aren't everything but Kaberle is still solid defensively when he is in shape. With Toronto he was playing a lot of tough minutes and he never had bad +- numbers despite playing on non playoff teams. Just because he isn't a punishing hitter you equate that as being bad defensively. Lidstrom never had a hit on the TSN highlights but he was good defensively because of his hockey sense and anticipation, Kaberle and Markov play the same way. Not saying Kaberle is as good defensively as Listrom was but he isn't the MA Bergeron liability you describe him as.

Last year most of the team looked bad in the second half, guys not buying in to Cunneyworth's system, too many 1 goal losses and an obvious "malaise" around the team. I think if Therien can change the attitude from day 1 a lot of guys will be a lot better namely Bourque Kaberle Plekanec, adding a leader like Gionta and a stud like Markov(healthy) should also be a big plus.

I don't see any reason Emelin and Diaz would have a "sophmore slump", they had their growing pains last year being "thrown into the fire" very early due to injuries. They are not 19-20-21 year old kids they have been in pro hockey 6-7 years. The NA and NHL adjustments are over, I expect a pretty big jump in production from both.
Never did I ever say he was bad because he wasn't a punishing hitter, so AGAIN PLEASE STOP MAKING UP THINGS I DIDN'T SAY TO BACK UP YOUR ARGUEMENT. Jesus, you're really annoying when you constantly have to revert to making up comments that posters didn't say to try to prove your points.

If you think Kaberle is a solid top 4 defender that's fine. I think you're delusional but hey, you've proved you tend to over value players you like in the past. I doubt you'd say Kaberle was solid if he played for another team. He played for a Stanley Cup Championship team and was a HUGE disappointment when he was there. He was a fatty in Carolina and after a few good games for us, dropped off the face of the earth. If you're argument that we have an "above average" defense rests on Kaberle than you're even more delusional than I thought.

As for your contention of Diaz and Emelin not having a sophomore slump, you’re reasoning is suspect at best. PK was thrown into the fire, as you put it in you post and he had a sophomore slump. Price had one as well after his breakout year and neither Diaz or Emelin are as good as the aforementioned players. It's a sophomore slump for a reason. Nearly every second year player after having a breakout rookie season tends to struggle in their second year for whatever reason. Hab players aren't immune from this just because you think they aren't.

Point is that the Habs don't have a very good defense. i doubt you'll hear anyone in the NHL or fans who follow say how are defense is a strength of the Habs because it isn't.

Markov hasn't effectively played in 2 years. Neither has Kaberle with any effectiveness. Gorges is solid, PK is hot and cold and the rest are sophomores and about to retire vet. How this rag tag defensive core is deemed to be better than average is beyond me, especially when we're lacking so much on our back end.

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08-23-2012, 12:49 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
http://youtu.be/82K59UETcTc

WROOONG.

But ya, Kaberle is not that bad of a defender, he was just in horrible shape in Carolina.
That's hardly a vicious hit, just shoving a player that's in a vulnerable spot and he happens to run into the stanchion. I guess if that's the "baddest" Lidstrom hit he wasn't a big hitter. lol

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08-23-2012, 12:59 PM
  #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
Predictive text on my iPhone. Sophomore slump...



Never did I ever say he was bad because he wasn't a punishing hitter, so AGAIN PLEASE STOP MAKING UP THINGS I DIDN'T SAY TO BACK UP YOUR ARGUEMENT. Jesus, you're really annoying when you constantly have to revert to making up comments that posters didn't say to try to prove your points.

If you think Kaberle is a solid top 4 defender that's fine. I think you're delusional but hey, you've proved you tend to over value players you like in the past. I doubt you'd say Kaberle was solid if he played for another team. He played for a Stanley Cup Championship team and was a HUGE disappointment when he was there. He was a fatty in Carolina and after a few good games for us, dropped off the face of the earth. If you're argument that we have an "above average" defense rests on Kaberle than you're even more delusional than I thought.

As for your contention of Diaz and Emelin not having a sophomore slump, you’re reasoning is suspect at best. PK was thrown into the fire, as you put it in you post and he had a sophomore slump. Price had one as well after his breakout year and neither Diaz or Emelin are as good as the aforementioned players. It's a sophomore slump for a reason. Nearly every second year player after having a breakout rookie season tends to struggle in their second year for whatever reason. Hab players aren't immune from this just because you think they aren't.

Point is that the Habs don't have a very good defense. i doubt you'll hear anyone in the NHL or fans who follow say how are defense is a strength of the Habs because it isn't.

Markov hasn't effectively played in 2 years. Neither has Kaberle with any effectiveness. Gorges is solid, PK is hot and cold and the rest are sophomores and about to retire vet. How this rag tag defensive core is deemed to be better than average is beyond me, especially when we're lacking so much on our back end.

1-what do Diaz and Emelin have to do with PK? They came from strong pro leagues in Europe at 25 or 26 while he strarted in the NHL at 20(playoffs 2+ years ago).

2-PK didn't have a sophmore slump, he struggled early in his rookie year and again his sophmore year and both years he had strong 2nd halfs. His 2nd year numbers are the same on offense but his +- improves from -8 to +9 despite the team taking a big step backwards, so I'd say overall he was better his 2nd year. The point you are missing is neither Diaz or Emelin had "breakout" rookie years, they probably played more than they were ready for and had growing pains. Most sophmore slumps are as a result of somebody having great success early often because the league doesn't yet know them or they get favorable matchups(see Desharnais). If anybody sees a drop in production next year I would bet on Desharnais and Pacioretty way before Diaz and Emelin.

3-Kaberle was effective enough to win a cup and put up 47 points 2 years ago, saying that's not effective is beyond moronic.

4-So Markov has hardly played in 2 years, big deal. If he stays healthy he'll still be a stud. It's all about his health, I have no worries about the rest as it will take care of istelf with preseason and maybe a month of regular season.

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08-23-2012, 01:33 PM
  #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
1-what do Diaz and Emelin have to do with PK? They came from strong pro leagues in Europe at 25 or 26 while he strarted in the NHL at 20(playoffs 2+ years ago).

2-PK didn't have a sophmore slump, he struggled early in his rookie year and again his sophmore year and both years he had strong 2nd halfs. His 2nd year numbers are the same on offense but his +- improves from -8 to +9 despite the team taking a big step backwards, so I'd say overall he was better his 2nd year. The point you are missing is neither Diaz or Emelin had "breakout" rookie years, they probably played more than they were ready for and had growing pains. Most sophmore slumps are as a result of somebody having great success early often because the league doesn't yet know them or they get favorable matchups(see Desharnais). If anybody sees a drop in production next year I would bet on Desharnais and Pacioretty way before Diaz and Emelin.

3-Kaberle was effective enough to win a cup and put up 47 points 2 years ago, saying that's not effective is beyond moronic.

4-So Markov has hardly played in 2 years, big deal. If he stays healthy he'll still be a stud. It's all about his health, I have no worries about the rest as it will take care of istelf with preseason and maybe a month of regular season.
There'a a term called a sophomore slump for a reason. It happens often enough in the NHL that they actually came up with a term for it. Just because your fail to recognize it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

PK went from scoring 14 goals as a rookie to scoring 7. According to you that's considered progressing? Okay than.

Kaberle was NOT effective enough to win a Cup. In fact the Bruins won it in spite of the fact that he did absolutley nothing for them on the PP, which is why they got him in the first place. He put up 47 points TWO YEARS AGO. Hence, you proved my point that he's sucked for the past 2 years. Why on earth and what justification would you have to think that he'd be any better considering he's 2 years older, fatter and less relevant???

So it's not a big deal that Markov hasn't played in 2 years beacuase things will "take care of themselves" IF he doesn't get hurt.

You have a lot of variables and uncertainties to back your assertion that the Habs defense, and I quote "is better than average." For them to be better than average, Markov has to not get hurt and rub off 2 years of rust. Kaberle has to go back to his production of 2 years ago even though he won't be playing 1st unit numbers, PK has to be consistent even though he hasn't shown that yet and Diaz and Emelin can't go through a sophomore slump because they are, according to you, "came from srong pro leagues in Europe in their mid 20's.

That's a hell of a lot of question marks. I stand by my intitial comment that we dont't have a very good defensive corp. If we need them to basically play perfect and not get injured for them to be "above average" than I'll take that as a confirmation of my intial comment.

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08-23-2012, 01:53 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
That's hardly a vicious hit, just shoving a player that's in a vulnerable spot and he happens to run into the stanchion. I guess if that's the "baddest" Lidstrom hit he wasn't a big hitter. lol
I know... I was amazed at the fact that the best dman to ever play the game was so soft. I'll always be.. So I laugh at him..

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08-23-2012, 01:57 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
There'a a term called a sophomore slump for a reason. It happens often enough in the NHL that they actually came up with a term for it. Just because your fail to recognize it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

PK went from scoring 14 goals as a rookie to scoring 7. According to you that's considered progressing? Okay than.

Kaberle was NOT effective enough to win a Cup. In fact the Bruins won it in spite of the fact that he did absolutley nothing for them on the PP, which is why they got him in the first place. He put up 47 points TWO YEARS AGO. Hence, you proved my point that he's sucked for the past 2 years. Why on earth and what justification would you have to think that he'd be any better considering he's 2 years older, fatter and less relevant???

So it's not a big deal that Markov hasn't played in 2 years beacuase things will "take care of themselves" IF he doesn't get hurt.

You have a lot of variables and uncertainties to back your assertion that the Habs defense, and I quote "is better than average." For them to be better than average, Markov has to not get hurt and rub off 2 years of rust. Kaberle has to go back to his production of 2 years ago even though he won't be playing 1st unit numbers, PK has to be consistent even though he hasn't shown that yet and Diaz and Emelin can't go through a sophomore slump because they are, according to you, "came from srong pro leagues in Europe in their mid 20's.

That's a hell of a lot of question marks. I stand by my intitial comment that we dont't have a very good defensive corp. If we need them to basically play perfect and not get injured for them to be "above average" than I'll take that as a confirmation of my intial comment.
That is one shallow analysis, and I think you're being intellectually dishonest if you don't think PK improved over his first season by a substantial margin.

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08-23-2012, 02:25 PM
  #235
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That is one shallow analysis, and I think you're being intellectually dishonest if you don't think PK improved over his first season by a substantial margin.
I don't think he improved by a substantial margin. In fact I think most fans expected more from him in his second year. He had a really slow start and was far from being the top defender he was at the end of the previous year. He got better as the year went on but his offense lagged as his defense got better, which it did. Overall though, I find it hard to say he was "substantially" better than his first year. I'd say he was marginally better at best. In any case, it's obviously subjective and splitting hairs.

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08-23-2012, 02:59 PM
  #236
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His positioning, his awareness on the ice, his puck-moving and his defensive play in general was much improved.

Considering the prolific trend of sophomore slumps for young defensemen, I consider this an impressive achievement.

Just take a look at how much Doughty and Myers regressed when forced into similar roles that PK was.

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08-23-2012, 03:05 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
His positioning, his awareness on the ice, his puck-moving and his defensive play in general was much improved.

Considering the prolific trend of sophomore slumps for young defensemen, I consider this an impressive achievement.

Just take a look at how much Doughty and Myers regressed when forced into similar roles that PK was.
I'm not bashing PK in the least. He and Gorges are the top pairing of our D IMO. It's the rest of the corp that I have concerns with.

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08-23-2012, 03:26 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
There'a a term called a sophomore slump for a reason. It happens often enough in the NHL that they actually came up with a term for it. Just because your fail to recognize it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

PK went from scoring 14 goals as a rookie to scoring 7. According to you that's considered progressing? Okay than.

Kaberle was NOT effective enough to win a Cup. In fact the Bruins won it in spite of the fact that he did absolutley nothing for them on the PP, which is why they got him in the first place. He put up 47 points TWO YEARS AGO. Hence, you proved my point that he's sucked for the past 2 years. Why on earth and what justification would you have to think that he'd be any better considering he's 2 years older, fatter and less relevant???

So it's not a big deal that Markov hasn't played in 2 years beacuase things will "take care of themselves" IF he doesn't get hurt.

You have a lot of variables and uncertainties to back your assertion that the Habs defense, and I quote "is better than average." For them to be better than average, Markov has to not get hurt and rub off 2 years of rust. Kaberle has to go back to his production of 2 years ago even though he won't be playing 1st unit numbers, PK has to be consistent even though he hasn't shown that yet and Diaz and Emelin can't go through a sophomore slump because they are, according to you, "came from srong pro leagues in Europe in their mid 20's.

That's a hell of a lot of question marks. I stand by my intitial comment that we dont't have a very good defensive corp. If we need them to basically play perfect and not get injured for them to be "above average" than I'll take that as a confirmation of my intial comment.
Just because there is a "term for it" doesn't mean it happens to everybody. Did it happen to Stamkos(51 goals and 95 points)? Did it happen to Tavares(+13 points from rookie year)? Did it happen to Seguin(+45 points)? Did it happen to Weber(17 goals and 40 points 2nd year)? It's more the exception than the rule. It COULD happen to Diaz and Emelin, but based on the growing pains and the tough minutes they had to play early on, I think the odds are heavily in our favor that they will be much more prepared to play top 4 minutes and play a big role this year. They always had the physical tools but no NHL experience, well they gained a lot of that last year.

I'm not saying we have a good or a bad defense. I think there is a big gap from best case(above average/top 10 in the NHL) to worst case(below average/bottom 1/3). I don't necessarily think everything will go "best case scenario" or "worst case scenario", the middle ground to me is an average defense and a fair bit better than last year. You are painting it with your doom and gloom worst case scenario brush, I can do taht with any team and they miss the playoffs. If Markov is 80% of the played he was 3 years ago then a lot of issues quickly go away. Markov must be due for a bit of good luck.

PS I didn't realise that PK's only role on the team was scoring goals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
I don't think he improved by a substantial margin. In fact I think most fans expected more from him in his second year. He had a really slow start and was far from being the top defender he was at the end of the previous year. He got better as the year went on but his offense lagged as his defense got better, which it did. Overall though, I find it hard to say he was "substantially" better than his first year. I'd say he was marginally better at best. In any case, it's obviously subjective and splitting hairs.
Part of why his goal scoring dropped is having to play big minutes against top lines. The year before Spacek-Hamrlik mostly did that and PK had a more offensive role. Plus having a weaker PP also hurt his numbers.


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08-23-2012, 05:10 PM
  #239
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PK improved 'cause what you are looking in a sophomore season, or expecting shall I say, is while there's a regression in your game at the start of the season....there's an improvement towards the end. Which is exactly how it happened.

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08-23-2012, 06:14 PM
  #240
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PK was probably better defensivly than he was in his first season but he regressed offensively. His shot went from a dangerous weapon to a total mess and caused massive problems on the PP.

Hopefully he has it figured out and his shot can return to normal because we don't have another player who can fill that hole.

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08-23-2012, 07:21 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
PK was probably better defensivly than he was in his first season but he regressed offensively. His shot went from a dangerous weapon to a total mess and caused massive problems on the PP.

Hopefully he has it figured out and his shot can return to normal because we don't have another player who can fill that hole.
Last year I also noticed he didnt like to pinch in anymore and use his hard wrister

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08-23-2012, 08:22 PM
  #242
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Just because there is a "term for it" doesn't mean it happens to everybody. Did it happen to Stamkos(51 goals and 95 points)? Did it happen to Tavares(+13 points from rookie year)? Did it happen to Seguin(+45 points)? Did it happen to Weber(17 goals and 40 points 2nd year)? It's more the exception than the rule. It COULD happen to Diaz and Emelin, but based on the growing pains and the tough minutes they had to play early on, I think the odds are heavily in our favor that they will be much more prepared to play top 4 minutes and play a big role this year. They always had the physical tools but no NHL experience, well they gained a lot of that last year.

I'm not saying we have a good or a bad defense. I think there is a big gap from best case(above average/top 10 in the NHL) to worst case(below average/bottom 1/3). I don't necessarily think everything will go "best case scenario" or "worst case scenario", the middle ground to me is an average defense and a fair bit better than last year. You are painting it with your doom and gloom worst case scenario brush, I can do taht with any team and they miss the playoffs. If Markov is 80% of the played he was 3 years ago then a lot of issues quickly go away. Markov must be due for a bit of good luck.

PS I didn't realise that PK's only role on the team was scoring goals.



Part of why his goal scoring dropped is having to play big minutes against top lines. The year before Spacek-Hamrlik mostly did that and PK had a more offensive role. Plus having a weaker PP also hurt his numbers.
None of which changes the fact we have a pretty crappy defense as it stands.


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08-24-2012, 06:54 AM
  #243
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
None of which changes the fact we have a pretty crappy defense as it stands.
You must wake up in the morning looking at everything wrong with your life and complaining. We don't know whgat we have for a defense before the season starts. Lots of question marks but also lots of potential.

If Gorges and PK play like last year, Markov's knee is 100%, Kaberle is in shape and bounces back and Emelin steps up his game we can have a top 5 that's well above average. Bouillon and Diaz as #6 and 7 is very sold. Even better if PK takes the "next step".

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08-24-2012, 09:37 AM
  #244
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
You must wake up in the morning looking at everything wrong with your life and complaining. We don't know whgat we have for a defense before the season starts. Lots of question marks but also lots of potential.

If Gorges and PK play like last year, Markov's knee is 100%, Kaberle is in shape and bounces back and Emelin steps up his game we can have a top 5 that's well above average. Bouillon and Diaz as #6 and 7 is very sold. Even better if PK takes the "next step".
I'm a realist. I like to see things for what they are and not what I hope they will be. The sooner you realize there's a shortcoming, the sooner you can fix it. What's the point in hoping for a series if events to unfold just right so your outcome is acceptable? Why not just try to work on improving our defense which is suspect right now? Have you heard ANYONE praising our defense and saying how solid a core we have cuz i sure as **** haven't.

Your life must be a constant disappointment to you if you need a million things to go right for any positive to happen. I bet your day is completely shot whenever you check your lottery ticket and didn't win.

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08-24-2012, 10:18 AM
  #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
If Gorges ...
and PK play like last year, ...
Markov's knee is 100%, ...
Kaberle is in shape ...
and bounces back ...
and Emelin steps up his game ...
Bouillon and ...
Diaz as #6 and 7 ...
Even better if PK takes the "next step"...
You list 9 different uncertain things that you hope can go right.

I actually think each of these is individually plausible. However, there's 9 of them. If each of them has a 75% chance of being true, that means you should expect that 2-3 of them won't happen.


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08-24-2012, 11:03 AM
  #246
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Here is a more likely outcome:

- At any given time, 2 of Subban, Gorges, Markov, Emelin, Bouillon, Kaberle will be injured. That means 1 of Subban, Gorges, Markov; and 1 of Emelin, Bouillon, Kaberle. That's not the best or worst case scenario, it's the standard expectation. It then follows that Yannick Weber is likely playing 10 minutes a game for 40 games.
- Subban, Gorges, Emelin, Kaberle, Bouillon play, on average, approximately the same as last year when playing. One of the young players (Emelin, Diaz, Subban, Weber) improves and maybe one regresses, but the older players (Bouillon, Kaberle, Gorges) hold steady or regress.
- Markov recovers from the poor performance we saw in the last 20 games of last year, but he does slowly, and takes his time to become the dominant player we once knew. He makes many mistakes along the way and needs easier minutes.

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08-24-2012, 02:00 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
You list 9 different uncertain things that you hope can go right.

I actually think each of these is individually plausible. However, there's 9 of them. If each of them has a 75% chance of being true, that means you should expect that 2-3 of them won't happen.
Not sure where you see 9 "uncertain" things. The big variables on defense are Markov and Kaberle.

I don't see Gorges and PK taking any big steps backwards. Gorges may have had a creer year but PK can pretty easily take a step forward, expecting them to be on par with last year give or take 10%+- is a pretty safe assumption.

Kaberle was still good on offense last year(despite a horrible start) he just needs to show up more focused and in better shape. I assume that somebody in the Habs front office spent some time making sure of this. Still a variable though.

Markov is the big variable. If he is 100% of what he was 3 years ago, we are golden. 80% and we are still in good shape. His knee should be close to 100% being almost 2 years post surgery and you know damn well he will be in great shape when he arrives, as long as he can avoid further bad luck.

Bouillon was a solid #5 last year for a team that finished near the top of the NHL standings and had a great GAA, unless he declines a lot in one year he should bring solid depth plus great leadership. Diaz and Emelin already showed they can be solid NHLers, so not a big risk there, if they can take a nice step forward and make a bigger impact then that's a big upgrade over the #2 and 3 pairs of last year.

So you're basically talking 2 question marks...but also 2 guys that can make a big impact if they are "right".

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08-24-2012, 02:47 PM
  #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Not sure where you see 9 "uncertain" things. The big variables on defense are Markov and Kaberle.
There were 9 I even listed them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I don't see Gorges and PK taking any big steps backwards. Gorges may have had a creer year but PK can pretty easily take a step forward, expecting them to be on par with last year give or take 10%+- is a pretty safe assumption.
At any given time some players will regress and some will progress, even if for each individual player you expect progression, that's statistics. Think of the defensemen as dice. We have 6 players, just like a die has 6 sides. Some will end up on "1" even though the odd of "1" is only 17% per roll.

In this case, I'll point out both Gorges and Subban played 80 games last year. From that alone you expect regression in contribution, as 70 games is typical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Kaberle was still good on offense last year(despite a horrible start) he just needs to show up more focused and in better shape. I assume that somebody in the Habs front office spent some time making sure of this. Still a variable though.
Kaberle can regress. Now that there are 3 offensive dmen on the team with Markov, he might not get as many opportunities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Markov is the big variable. If he is 100% of what he was 3 years ago, we are golden. 80% and we are still in good shape. His knee should be close to 100% being almost 2 years post surgery and you know damn well he will be in great shape when he arrives, as long as he can avoid further bad luck.
Wrong. An injury to Subban or Gorges would be just as devastating as an injury to Markov, possibly more so.

Bouillon was a solid #5 last year for a team that finished near the top of the NHL standings and had a great GAA, unless he declines a lot in one year he should bring solid depth plus great leadership. Diaz and Emelin already showed they can be solid NHLers, so not a big risk there, if they can take a nice step forward and make a bigger impact then that's a big upgrade over the #2 and 3 pairs of last year.

So you're basically talking 2 question marks...but also 2 guys that can make a big impact if they are "right".[/QUOTE]
Every player is a question mark, because anyone might regress, and any player can be injured.

You're indirectly assuming that either every player will be healthy, or that Markov is the only one who can be injured.

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08-24-2012, 05:13 PM
  #249
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Trust me, he's a lost cause. Carey nevers stays on point and starts to argue over other things that he thinks validate his argue,want that has little or nothing to do with the case at hand or just pulls made up numbers out of his ass.

All this started when I said our defense doesn't look very good and needs to be improved. He's been trying to "prove" me wrong with his display that if 9 things go perfectly with our defense than we'd be "above average". Actually pretty funny if it wasn't so idiotic.

Last edited by shutehinside; Today at 06:21 PM..


Last edited by shutehinside: 08-24-2012 at 05:22 PM.
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Old
08-24-2012, 05:33 PM
  #250
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Trust me, he's a lost cause. Carey nevers stays on point and starts to argue over other things that he thinks validate his argue,want that has little or nothing to do with the case at hand or just pulls made up numbers out of his ass.

All this started when I said our defense doesn't look very good and needs to be improved. He's been trying to "prove" me wrong with his display that if 9 things go perfectly with our defense than we'd be "above average". Actually pretty funny if it wasn't so idiotic.

Last edited by shutehinside; Today at 06:21 PM..
I'm relatively new to the forum, I come with an open mind. Carey hasn't said anything to piss me off, and his arguments are mostly arguments and not personal attacks. The main difference is that he's an optimist to the season. Alternatively, you could instead say that the main difference is that I'm a cynic.

I agree with you that the defense doesn't look good. My assessment is that once the inevitable 1, 2, or 3 injuries happen we'll have one of the worst defenses in the NHL.

Even if healthy, our defense is missing a big shutdown presence in the mould of 2007-08 Komisarek or 2009-2010 Gill (our biggest player is 6'2"), and someone with a good shot for the offense in the mould of Sourray / Streit / Schneider / Bergeron / Wisniewski. Add those two and our defense when healthy would be elite. Without those two pieces our defense when healthy is mediocre.

Remember the people who said we couldn't afford Wisniewski? He would only cost us 1 million more than Kaberle, and he would fit in a lot better.


Last edited by DAChampion: 08-24-2012 at 05:41 PM.
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