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Oilers sign Hall to 7yr/$42M extension (6M AAV)

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Old
08-23-2012, 09:50 AM
  #76
Tim Vezina Thomas
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It'll be interesting to see what Chiarelli does with Seguin now. And what about Eberle?? If a player who hasnt played more than 65 games get 6 a year, and youve outproduced him, should you get more?

And what if Chiarelli waits til after the season and Seguin produces more than Eberle at a PPG pace?

If Hall got 6 million a year off of that resume...shouldnt Seguin get more after producing more?

I dunno, just throwing it out there, but I hope we get Seguin signed SOON. I'd give him that Hall deal in an absolute heartbeat.

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08-23-2012, 09:50 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by BubbaBoot View Post
Both...the owners and the athletes. Cops, firemen, teachers, etc....they get scrutinized with a fine tooth comb, put their lives on the line, try to mold our kids into intelligent citizens, (and as much of a peacenik that I am , don't get me started about the criminally underpaid armed forces men and women who fight the wars that politicians start) and they have to fight for whatever dough they can get seemingly every year, and all the while threatened with budget cut layoffs....the owners and the NHLPA want to go on strike / lockout because of the dough, be my guest, I don't give a ****. I CANNOT empathize with either camp.

Me personally, and I've mentioned this numerous times, as long as I can still lace up my skates and go out to work up a sweat and make an ass out of myself, I'm as happy as can be.
You're comparing apples and oranges.

Pretty much anyone can become a firefighter or a police office with the right amount of training...very few people have the skillset to become one of the best athletes in their particular sport.

Also, athletes are paid well because people are willing to pay a lot of money to see the best talent in the world. The players are justified to receive whatever the market is willing to pay them.

Sounds harsh, but that's the truth.

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08-23-2012, 09:57 AM
  #78
Tim Vezina Thomas
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Originally Posted by JBertho View Post
You're comparing apples and oranges.

Pretty much anyone can become a firefighter or a police office with the right amount of training...very few people have the skillset to become one of the best athletes in their particular sport.

Also, athletes are paid well because people are willing to pay a lot of money to see the best talent in the world. The players are justified to receive whatever the market is willing to pay them.

Sounds harsh, but that's the truth.
You're absolutely right. You simply can't compare professional athletes to the "common man" for lack of a better term.

If you asked all the players I'm certain the majority of them would say something to the effect of "I'm living the dream, getting payed so much to play a sport I love." Its the times we live in...people pay up the ass to see a great sport live.

I empathize with the players because why shouldnt they get fair market value pay? Why should they be the ones taking the discount? Would you willingly take a 50% pay cut because you believe the system is flawed? I certainly wouldnt....lol.

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08-23-2012, 10:08 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by JBertho View Post
You're comparing apples and oranges.

Pretty much anyone can become a firefighter or a police office with the right amount of training...very few people have the skillset to become one of the best athletes in their particular sport.

Also, athletes are paid well because people are willing to pay a lot of money to see the best talent in the world. The players are justified to receive whatever the market is willing to pay them.

Sounds harsh, but that's the truth.
You want to fawn over professional athletes, be my guest.
You want to wait with bated breath as they argue over million$ Be my guest.

I don't care.

I enjoy sports, love watching the finest athletes in the world going at it and yes, feel they are worth whatever the market is willing to pay them.....but put into perspective, what is their relative worth? From a pragmatic sense, not a whole helluva lot.

The season either starts on time or it doesn't....life goes on with or without them and I certainly won't lose any sleep over this particular quandary.

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08-23-2012, 10:10 AM
  #80
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I just disagree. I think that JJ was well aware of the possibility of a roll back, but that he thought the implementation of a hard cap would still force teams to allow good players to walk. The lack of fiscal responsibility amongst many owners was rampant before the last lockout, so I think he just read the tea leaves wrong. To say that the chairman of the board for the NHL was caught off guard by something like a rollback is just way too unbelievable to me. He was orchestrating the entire lockout, FFS. There's no way he wasn't aware of that being a possibility.
Oh what could have been.. Dimitri Kristich, Mikael Nylander, Mike Knuble, Brian Rolston..

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08-23-2012, 10:11 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
You're absolutely right. You simply can't compare professional athletes to the "common man" for lack of a better term.

If you asked all the players I'm certain the majority of them would say something to the effect of "I'm living the dream, getting payed so much to play a sport I love." Its the times we live in...people pay up the ass to see a great sport live.

I empathize with the players because why shouldnt they get fair market value pay? Why should they be the ones taking the discount? Would you willingly take a 50% pay cut because you believe the system is flawed? I certainly wouldnt....lol.
Oh no, I certainly wouldn't, but as a common man, I would have no choice or influence in the matter.

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08-23-2012, 10:14 AM
  #82
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Everybody worrying about what impact Hall's contract will have on Seguins negotiations, what IF Marchand pops 35 goals 35 assists this season?? He's going to ask for the moon! $5m? 5.5? If the B's young guns perform this season, Ive got a hunch the Peverlys & Kellys of the world are going to be shopped hard next offseason.

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08-23-2012, 10:26 AM
  #83
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You think Chia extends anyone before a new CBA is in place?

I have no idea, but would guess that he's as set up as he wants to be considering the big ?'s of salary structure under new CBA.

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08-23-2012, 10:28 AM
  #84
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And these are the same owners crying poverty during the CBA negotiations?
Edmonton's anticipating a roll-back.

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08-23-2012, 10:33 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Everybody worrying about what impact Hall's contract will have on Seguins negotiations, what IF Marchand pops 35 goals 35 assists this season?? He's going to ask for the moon! $5m? 5.5? If the B's young guns perform this season, Ive got a hunch the Peverlys & Kellys of the world are going to be shopped hard next offseason.
If Marchand puts up 75 points id gladly give him that much haha.

Kelly I dont think will be shopped, he took a discount and signed a long term deal to remain here....

Peverley, we'll see I guess?

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08-23-2012, 11:11 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by OrrOverGretzky View Post
There's also some risk for Seguin in waiting.

What if Hall out produces him ? Or Skinner for that matter ?

What if he gets injured and misses the majority of (if there is) the season ?

What if he has an off year?

IMO the risks Seguin faces are greater than the risks the Bruins face should the two sides wait.

Interesting enough, Skinner and Hall have the same agent. Yup, you guessed it ........
Frank Stallone?

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08-23-2012, 11:26 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Oh what could have been.. Dimitri Kristich, Mikael Nylander, Mike Knuble, Brian Rolston..
Gonchar too....

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08-23-2012, 01:16 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Scotto74 View Post
I have hated the sencond contract's since the new CBA went into place. I really think they need to do something about that in this round. These guys are getting paid on what they might be able to do not on what they are doing/have done.

getting paid before you prove yourself is crazy.
I'm on board with what has been proposed for the new CBA including 5 years for ELCs, and the 5 year limit on contracts. But on top of this, asking the players to take a pay cut is ridiculous. I feel like a longer ELC period, and shorter contracts will work itself out to bring down player salaries anyway.

They need to get something done quick.

I'd give this contract to Seguin after he pots 40 next year.

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08-23-2012, 01:18 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by murphdasmurf2 View Post
I'm on board with what has been proposed for the new CBA including 5 years for ELCs, and the 5 year limit on contracts. But on top of this, asking the players to take a pay cut is ridiculous. I feel like a longer ELC period, and shorter contracts will work itself out to bring down player salaries anyway.

They need to get something done quick.

I'd give this contract to Seguin after he pots 40 next year.
I think both are Great ideas. 5 years gives the rookie enough time to prove what his second contract should be worth and I love the 5 year cap on contracts so there is not move giving out 10+ year deals front loaded to play with the cap hit.

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08-23-2012, 01:19 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by murphdasmurf2 View Post
I'm on board with what has been proposed for the new CBA including 5 years for ELCs, and the 5 year limit on contracts. But on top of this, asking the players to take a pay cut is ridiculous. I feel like a longer ELC period, and shorter contracts will work itself out to bring down player salaries anyway.

They need to get something done quick.

I'd give this contract to Seguin after he pots 40 next year.
I'll give you the contract length clause, although I think six or seven wouldn't be too bad either. The 5 year ELC, on the hand, is a no-no for me. Talk about a way to repulse European talents further.

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08-23-2012, 01:25 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
It'll be interesting to see what Chiarelli does with Seguin now. And what about Eberle?? If a player who hasnt played more than 65 games get 6 a year, and youve outproduced him, should you get more?

And what if Chiarelli waits til after the season and Seguin produces more than Eberle at a PPG pace?

If Hall got 6 million a year off of that resume...shouldnt Seguin get more after producing more?

I dunno, just throwing it out there, but I hope we get Seguin signed SOON. I'd give him that Hall deal in an absolute heartbeat.
To be fair, over the 2 years, when healthy Hall produced significantly more (albeit with a much larger role) on a PPG basis.

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08-23-2012, 01:34 PM
  #92
Tim Vezina Thomas
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Originally Posted by DoubleAAAA View Post
To be fair, over the 2 years, when healthy Hall produced significantly more (albeit with a much larger role) on a PPG basis.
Seguins PPG last year was .83 and Halls was .87, while Seguin played 20 more games.

I tend to ignore his first season because its a polar opposite of his second season and likely wont be even considered at the negotiating table. Seguin was sheltered 100 times over his first season, Hall was not.

I also said "what if Seguin produces more than Eberle next year" after I made the outproducing Hall comment. That post was largely hypothetical.

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08-23-2012, 06:16 PM
  #93
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To be fair, over the 2 years, when healthy Hall produced significantly more (albeit with a much larger role) on a PPG basis.
To be fair you really shouldn't look at just PPG or look at both years without looking at the role they played (which you did acknowledge). Hall produced more but wasn't the better player. You have to look at more than Points or PPG.

2 year production:
Seguin - 25.57, Hall - 24.16

Hall looks slightly better but he had twice the powerplay TOI/G the first year and 1.24 times this year. Given that difference Seguin's production is more impressive even over a 2 year period. Now let's look at 1 year which should be given more weight as it is the most recent and indicative of their current performance. They also had much more similar roles this year.

1 year -
Seguin - 20.48, Hall - 20.96

Seguin looks slightly better but again Hall had more PPTOI so the gap is larger than it looks. Seguin has also been healthy over both seasons while Hall hasn't been. I can't say for certain who will be better in the future but at this point Seguin deserves at least what Hall got.

I think he is very slightly but clearly better, has been healthier and has a decent playoff resume as well as a Stanley Cup (a very small factor) but doesn't hurt when it comes to contract time. Hopefully he takes a discount.

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08-23-2012, 08:31 PM
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I find it interesting how hockey is the least watched in the US out of football, baseball, basketball, and hockey- has by and away the least TV dollars and it aint even close, yet Seguin can make more at 21 than a guy like Evan Longoria at 27 or Wes Welker at 30. Don't know about you guys but if I had my choice to be a very good not even great player at any sport it aint even close- hockey. They make it early and they get the summers off, and if your goalie has off ice problems you can get done by May 1st and be sitting on lounge chair in some distant sun drenched island drinking Rum Runnah's listening to Bob Marley and not having to worry about a scraggly beard and some obnoxious fan knocking a pain of glass on you.

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08-23-2012, 08:38 PM
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I find it interesting how hockey is the least watched in the US out of football, baseball, basketball, and hockey- has by and away the least TV dollars and it aint even close, yet Seguin can make more at 21 than a guy like Evan Longoria at 27 or Wes Welker at 30. Don't know about you guys but if I had my choice to be a very good not even great player at any sport it aint even close- hockey. They make it early and they get the summers off, and if your goalie has off ice problems you can get done by May 1st and be sitting on lounge chair in some distant sun drenched island drinking Rum Runnah's listening to Bob Marley and not having to worry about a scraggly beard and some obnoxious fan knocking a pain of glass on you.
NBA would be the best, marginal players get thrown huge contracts just for being 7 feet tall. Also in MLB there really is no ceiling on what you make...an elite player at a position can easily command more than 20 million dollars per year.

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08-23-2012, 09:44 PM
  #96
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Yeah, NBA 8-12th mn.

Sit on the bench, make a million, just play HORSE all day.

Without haing to get bodychecked.

Also, MLB Loogy, NFL punter.

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08-23-2012, 09:54 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Seguins PPG last year was .83 and Halls was .87, while Seguin played 20 more games.
Taylor Hall averaged 18:13 TOI last year and Seguin was 16:56 TOI. I'm thinking with an extra 1:17 a game Segs might have made up for that .04 difference.

I think Tyler having the better production stats is what a lot of people forget when they see Taylor's higher points over two years.


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08-24-2012, 08:34 AM
  #98
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Taylor Hall averaged 18:13 TOI last year and Seguin was 16:56 TOI. I'm thinking with an extra 1:17 a game Segs might have made up for that .04 difference.

I think Tyler having the better production stats is what a lot of people forget when they see Taylor's higher points over two years.
and the fact that the Oilers adherence to anything remotely that looks like a defensive system is non existent doesn`t help either.

I don`t think Hall would put up much more pts in a Bruins uni than Segs with the system CJ demand his players to play

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08-24-2012, 09:14 AM
  #99
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Yeah, NBA 8-12th mn.

Sit on the bench, make a million, just play HORSE all day.

Without haing to get bodychecked.

Also, MLB Loogy, NFL punter.
"He don't hafta play, Doc. All he's gotta do is kick."

To the OP, I'm on the side of signing Seguin to a similar contract as Hall's.

True he hasn't earned it yet, but I'm confident that 6 mil for a 26 year old Seguin will be an absolute steal.

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08-24-2012, 09:24 AM
  #100
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I think Chia would be wise to lock up Seguin now to a contract similar to Hall's. Seguin just looks like he's about to explode this coming season. I hope this season gets started soon because I feel like the boys are chomping at the bits to play Bruin hockey again after a dissapointing finish to last season. Seguin Marchand Lucic Krejci should all look to improve, & a healthy Horton will certainly be a huge boost. Darn CBA,, just get it done already, my 3yr old daughter has been rocking her Lucic-tee all summer asking me to put the 'game' on,, I think she's realized that I keep replaying Game 7 of the 11' Finals!!

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