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08-22-2012, 09:20 PM
  #26
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Beastly. His beast mode is already activated .

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08-22-2012, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Displayname40 View Post
In a couple seasons Coots will be neck and neck with G for the best player on the team. We all know about his D and Last season he showed flashes of having a real nice accurate shot.
I agree with this. Like others have mentioned, Coots has the "it" factor. I saw it last in Giroux and now i'm seeing it with Couturier.

His hands are great, his hockey iq is off the charts, he has size which he has shown he is more than capable of throwing around. He forechecks like bananas already, i cant wait to see what he looks like with these power skating lessons. Last season there were games where Cooter would have 3 or 4 prime goal scoring opportunities and it was always bad luck like a puck bouncing or the pass from random 4th linemate #3 being there too late. I have no doubt that with more ice time and increased confidence and development that he'll be the best player on this team not named Giroux

Check out these highlights and dig his 5 game goal scoring streak
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJp7jttPdz4

*i dont know how to embed the video here


Last edited by Cyborg LeClair: 08-22-2012 at 10:07 PM.
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08-22-2012, 10:51 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swic21 View Post
It's not easy to put on 5 pounds of muscle. Especially only working out 3 times a week. Thats only 12 workouts lol. You may have been kidding, but 5 pounds of muscle is big progress.
I'm about 6' and kind of a thick dude, so I put muscle on a little easier than some. Also those are twelve two and a half hour work outs, with a good diet and rest. The nature of the work out is important also. Olympic lifts and lots of compound, power lifts that recruit multiple large muscle groups.

That is both the kind of work out that promotes explosive strength and athleticism, and adds muscle the fastest. That and lots of calories and a gallon of skim milk a day (lots of not only protein, but also insulin like growth factor in milk, which makes mammals grow).

5 pounds in a month for a 6'4'' guy who's job it is to work out isn't a bad month, assuming additional mass isn't the only thing he's been working on. If he added strength and speed, while still maintaining his aerobic performance and conditioning and coordination, then yeah, that's not a bad month. If all he did was try to get bigger, and he added 5 lean pounds...then he either had a bad month or he just isn't ever going to be able to add mass easily. Some guys are like that.


I was half joking when I posted before. I really don't know enough about Couturier or what he's doing in his work outs to make a serious assessment. I'd bet he's being guided by professionals, so he's probably doing just fine.

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08-22-2012, 11:04 PM
  #29
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Like some have said, this isn't particularly a big story, but does show you the character Couts possesses. He isn't letting the hype get to him and taking off during the off season, he is working on getting better. He is striving to become the best player he can be, and we all know first hand the type of talent he has. This is very encouraging also that he is working on his skating. This is one of the main reasons scouts picked him apart at the draft. These type of players are the people that win you championships, just like Giroux. Character is a huge deal with the Flyers as we have seen through the years, and I couldn't be happier to have this 19 year old on this team.

Let's hope in a few years his is at his peak physically and is dominating the league while still wearing the Orange and Black.

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08-23-2012, 11:22 AM
  #30
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Like I have said many times, the kid is going to be a ****ing beast. When he gets that offensive game going like he has his defensive game, he will turn heads

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08-23-2012, 04:32 PM
  #31
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Simmonds is fine at 185, Couturier is fine at 205 or even 199, this isn't football. Only physical D and 4th liners need to be huge. Simmonds is not a power forward, he's a physical 2nd liner with 1st line potential.

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08-23-2012, 10:05 PM
  #32
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I wouldn't be surprised to see Couts have a Seguin type sophomore year. He will probably be centering the third line. I can't say enough about his season last year. He shut down the opposition and still had decent offensive output on a fourth line with the likes of Rinaldo.

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08-24-2012, 08:55 AM
  #33
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I think Couturier may develop to the point where we move Giroux to his wing.

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08-24-2012, 09:17 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
I think Couturier may develop to the point where we move Giroux to his wing.
Yeah if Schenn and Couturier both develop fully, I think one of Giroux/Schenn will have to move to wing.

Maybe something like this:
Hartnell-Couturier-Giroux
Simmonds-Schenn-Voracek

Giroux could still play in the middle in the offensive zone, while Couturier can play C defensively. Hartnell and Couturier both have great shots for Giroux to feed

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08-24-2012, 09:59 AM
  #35
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I can't see Couturier putting up any impressive point totals until he gets a better even strength offensive role. Right now he's obviously being put into a defensive role at ES and may see some secondary PP time (which should help his point production and maturing). He needs more time to develop despite his exceptional ability to acclimate to the big stage already. He's still simply too young, raw, and not relied upon (offensively speaking) to impress the league more then he already has. There's the off-chance that Coots and Schenn break out offensively together next season with Schenn definitely seeing an increased offensive role, but that's a lot of hope to put into two sophomores.

Coots is by far my second favorite player on the team at the age of 19 and I don't even follow minor hockey or prospects well so to be that popular with me and others this early on is an impressive feat on it's own. He's made a mark on the league in his first season...not many players can do that and even fewer do it in the way he did (shutting down Malkin while putting up some secondary offense to boot). He'll be a top NHL star after several seasons (probably around the same time Briere leaves or is up for a new contract), that I have no doubts about. However, I do doubt he makes any bigger an impression then he already has until then. At least not a markedly more one.

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08-24-2012, 10:17 AM
  #36
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I can't see Couturier being the third line center. His line is going to have the most ice time outside of the Giroux line. Couturier has shown he can be a defensive leader and he and Read have chemistry. Add Fedotenko to the line and he's going to clear lanes for Read and Couturier. As well, because all three are so responsible defensively, they'll also get first PK time assignments as well as being out on the ice the last minute of a game to defend a lead. As good as Schenn might be, he's nowhere near as good defensively as Couturier is and Schenn also had the luxury of playing with better linemates than Couturier and he didn't score at the pace Couturier scored at. Couturier should be rewarded for his stellar rookie year with at least 17 to 18 minutes of ice time per night and be given a more offensive role on this club.

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08-24-2012, 10:21 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I can't see Couturier being the third line center. His line is going to have the most ice time outside of the Giroux line. Couturier has shown he can be a defensive leader and he and Read have chemistry. Add Fedotenko to the line and he's going to clear lanes for Read and Couturier. As well, because all three are so responsible defensively, they'll also get first PK time assignments as well as being out on the ice the last minute of a game to defend a lead. As good as Schenn might be, he's nowhere near as good defensively as Couturier is and Schenn also had the luxury of playing with better linemates than Couturier and he didn't score at the pace Couturier scored at. Couturier should be rewarded for his stellar rookie year with at least 17 to 18 minutes of ice time per night and be given a more offensive role on this club.
he will get his ice time from EV and PK, whereas Schenn will probably get more PP time.

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08-24-2012, 11:32 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
I think Couturier may develop to the point where we move Giroux to his wing.
Why would you move a player who's a top 5 center to a different position unless he regresses (which could very well happen)? I love Couturier, but it's threads like these why people call him overrated. That being said, I think sky's the limit for him, but I don't see him ever reaching that level.

Anyway, if anyone's moved to wing, it'll be Schenn IMO.

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08-24-2012, 11:56 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by PayItForward View Post
Why would you move a player who's a top 5 center to a different position unless he regresses (which could very well happen)? I love Couturier, but it's threads like these why people call him overrated. That being said, I think sky's the limit for him, but I don't see him ever reaching that level.

Anyway, if anyone's moved to wing, it'll be Schenn IMO.
That's the same exact thing non Flyers fans said when we were all lauding Giroux when he burst on to the scene even though only put up 47 points. Look at how that turned out.

Some players it's easy to tell that they have "it". It's easy to tell with Couturier. He has a defensive awareness and character to him that is unnatural for a player his age. He has the draft pedigree and offensive skills to boot too.

Point being, when a player is this universally noticed and lauded by a fan-base as having something special (and in the case of some non Flyers fans too even) then there must be something to it. There's always the outside chance he'll bust and the moderate chance he won't ever be a great scorer in this league, but he's definitely something special.

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08-25-2012, 01:37 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
That's the same exact thing non Flyers fans said when we were all lauding Giroux when he burst on to the scene even though only put up 47 points. Look at how that turned out.

Some players it's easy to tell that they have "it". It's easy to tell with Couturier. He has a defensive awareness and character to him that is unnatural for a player his age. He has the draft pedigree and offensive skills to boot too.

Point being, when a player is this universally noticed and lauded by a fan-base as having something special (and in the case of some non Flyers fans too even) then there must be something to it. There's always the outside chance he'll bust and the moderate chance he won't ever be a great scorer in this league, but he's definitely something special.

I didn't say he was going to be a bust. I don't think he's going to be a bust. I love how he plays and I think he has a lot of potential and at the very least will be a very good #2 center. That being said, the people who are saying he's going to be "neck and neck with Giroux as the best player on the team", calling him a franchise player, saying to move the best player on the team to a different position for him, and acting like they wouldn't trade him for anybody are overrating him as his the poster predicting a Seguin-esque sophomore season for him. Seguin has much more raw offensive potential to him.

Martin Hanzal was a first round pick. He was excellent defensively, put up 35 points his rookie year. Here we are 5 seasons later and that's still his season high. He's a very good shut down center, who I've always expected more from.

Sam Gagner had 41 points his rookie year. Oilers fans were talking him up (i.e., the poll where they all said Gagner was going to be better than Giroux). He's a high first round pick who was supposed to get better. His defense is not nearly good enough and his offense is stagnant years later. I always hear about Couturier's hat trick. Well, Sam Gagner had an 8 point game and that doesn't change my opinion of him.

Brandon Sutter had 40 points his sophomore season. He's great defensively. All Hurricane fans I talked too said all he had to do was bulk up and get stronger. He's never reached that point total since and wasn't even a 2nd line center on a weak Hurricanes team. He, too, was a high round pick.

I don't think Couturier will be any of those players. I personally think he'll be a slightly more offensive version of Patrice Bergeron. That's a great player and a "special" player. Maybe he'll be more and I won't be surprised if he is. But people acting like he's going to be a bonafide superstar and the second coming of Giroux is why I think Flyers fans overrate him. Schenn and he have a lot to prove before they enter the Richards/Bergeron/Kesler or the Toews/Kopitar/Spezza territory, let alone the next level of centers where Giroux is.

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08-25-2012, 02:00 PM
  #41
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great for sean, depending on how the season shapes or how long or short it is based off CBA crap.

I'll say sean puts up 30 goals or more this season.

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08-25-2012, 06:10 PM
  #42
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I agree with everything pay it forward said except rating Toews outside the top tier of centers in the game. I think he's fantastic.

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08-25-2012, 06:22 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PayItForward View Post
I didn't say he was going to be a bust. I don't think he's going to be a bust. I love how he plays and I think he has a lot of potential and at the very least will be a very good #2 center. That being said, the people who are saying he's going to be "neck and neck with Giroux as the best player on the team", calling him a franchise player, saying to move the best player on the team to a different position for him, and acting like they wouldn't trade him for anybody are overrating him as his the poster predicting a Seguin-esque sophomore season for him. Seguin has much more raw offensive potential to him.

Martin Hanzal was a first round pick. He was excellent defensively, put up 35 points his rookie year. Here we are 5 seasons later and that's still his season high. He's a very good shut down center, who I've always expected more from.

Sam Gagner had 41 points his rookie year. Oilers fans were talking him up (i.e., the poll where they all said Gagner was going to be better than Giroux). He's a high first round pick who was supposed to get better. His defense is not nearly good enough and his offense is stagnant years later. I always hear about Couturier's hat trick. Well, Sam Gagner had an 8 point game and that doesn't change my opinion of him.

Brandon Sutter had 40 points his sophomore season. He's great defensively. All Hurricane fans I talked too said all he had to do was bulk up and get stronger. He's never reached that point total since and wasn't even a 2nd line center on a weak Hurricanes team. He, too, was a high round pick.

I don't think Couturier will be any of those players. I personally think he'll be a slightly more offensive version of Patrice Bergeron. That's a great player and a "special" player. Maybe he'll be more and I won't be surprised if he is. But people acting like he's going to be a bonafide superstar and the second coming of Giroux is why I think Flyers fans overrate him. Schenn and he have a lot to prove before they enter the Richards/Bergeron/Kesler or the Toews/Kopitar/Spezza territory, let alone the next level of centers where Giroux is.
I beg to differ. I think Couturier has just as much raw offensive ability as Seguin does. You mention all these other guys when comparing Couturier (Hanzal, Sutter, Gagner), but Couturier has a track record of being good offensively. Hanzal only averaged more than a point per game in CHL junior season and that was done when he was 19 - 20 years old. Gagner only played one season in the OHL - the highest scoring league in all of junior hockey (I still think Edmonton ruined his development, but that's another story) and Sutter has never been a point per game player anywhere he's been.

Couturier's hockey sense, when compared to those guys, is another planet. You can't compare Couturier to those guys. As for comparing him to Bergeron or Kesler or Richards, Sean put up similar numbers while playing considerably less than those three did in their rookie years. On top of it, Couturier played the toughest minutes out of all those guys and did so while playing the most demanding role - shut down center. That is an INCREDIBLY tough position to play and for a 19 year old to do and do it in such an impressive fashion, that's what makes everyone think he's right up there with Giroux.

On top of it, we saw a sampling of his offensive ability last year. He's got an excellent shot and he managed to get a career year out of Maxim Talbot. Just wait until Couturier gets top notch linemates who can finish off his passes or who can pass to him. A lot of the offense that Couturier generated last year was done practically by himself.

The guy is a Ron Francis clone. And if you ask Lemieux, Jagr, Recchi, Stevens, Tocchet, Barasso, etc.....all those guys from the Pittsburgh championships, they'll tell you that Francis was the most important player during those championship wins. Couturier plays so much like Francis, it's going to be scary once he fills out that 6'3 frame and he gets better linemates. And yes, he probably will replace Giroux as the top center and Giroux will probably move to the wing to accommodate that move.

Yes, very excited about Couturier because he has the skill and he'll be given the opportunity to put up fantastic numbers. You're talking about a high end center who can beat you in so many ways. There's no forward on the team right now that is his defensive equal. Once he's given the opportunity to play more on the offensive side, the man is going to be a killer. All the folks in Edmonton can have Ryan Nugent-Hopkins. I'll take Couturier any day of the week and it's not close.

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08-25-2012, 06:30 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thelos View Post
Yeah if Schenn and Couturier both develop fully, I think one of Giroux/Schenn will have to move to wing.

Maybe something like this:
Hartnell-Couturier-Giroux
Simmonds-Schenn-Voracek

Giroux could still play in the middle in the offensive zone, while Couturier can play C defensively. Hartnell and Couturier both have great shots for Giroux to feed
An ideal world in 3 years:

Hartnell - Giroux - Voracek
Simmonds - Couturier - Schenn
Wellwood - Laughton - Cousins

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08-26-2012, 01:03 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by PHILOUDELPHIA View Post
great for sean, depending on how the season shapes or how long or short it is based off CBA crap.

I'll say sean puts up 30 goals or more this season.
What?

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08-26-2012, 01:11 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I beg to differ. I think Couturier has just as much raw offensive ability as Seguin does. You mention all these other guys when comparing Couturier (Hanzal, Sutter, Gagner), but Couturier has a track record of being good offensively. Hanzal only averaged more than a point per game in CHL junior season and that was done when he was 19 - 20 years old. Gagner only played one season in the OHL - the highest scoring league in all of junior hockey (I still think Edmonton ruined his development, but that's another story) and Sutter has never been a point per game player anywhere he's been.

Couturier's hockey sense, when compared to those guys, is another planet. You can't compare Couturier to those guys. As for comparing him to Bergeron or Kesler or Richards, Sean put up similar numbers while playing considerably less than those three did in their rookie years. On top of it, Couturier played the toughest minutes out of all those guys and did so while playing the most demanding role - shut down center. That is an INCREDIBLY tough position to play and for a 19 year old to do and do it in such an impressive fashion, that's what makes everyone think he's right up there with Giroux.

On top of it, we saw a sampling of his offensive ability last year. He's got an excellent shot and he managed to get a career year out of Maxim Talbot. Just wait until Couturier gets top notch linemates who can finish off his passes or who can pass to him. A lot of the offense that Couturier generated last year was done practically by himself.

The guy is a Ron Francis clone. And if you ask Lemieux, Jagr, Recchi, Stevens, Tocchet, Barasso, etc.....all those guys from the Pittsburgh championships, they'll tell you that Francis was the most important player during those championship wins. Couturier plays so much like Francis, it's going to be scary once he fills out that 6'3 frame and he gets better linemates. And yes, he probably will replace Giroux as the top center and Giroux will probably move to the wing to accommodate that move.

Yes, very excited about Couturier because he has the skill and he'll be given the opportunity to put up fantastic numbers. You're talking about a high end center who can beat you in so many ways. There's no forward on the team right now that is his defensive equal. Once he's given the opportunity to play more on the offensive side, the man is going to be a killer. All the folks in Edmonton can have Ryan Nugent-Hopkins. I'll take Couturier any day of the week and it's not close.
This is exactly what PayItForward is talking about. I'm a fan of another team, and I'm not trolling here so please don't accuse me of that, but Couturier doesn't have the offensive ability of a guy like Seguin or Nugent Hopkins. Not close. Those guys are dynamic offensively. Seguin uses speed and a bullet shot to beat the goalie. Nuge uses slick Datsyukian moves and amazing vision. Couturier doesn't have that kind of arsenal. He just doesn't. I've seen him play a ton in junior and last season with Philly, and yes, Bergeron is about his upside I'd say. He is not Francis, he is not going to be better than RNH either. One guy says he's Francis, now that's all you hear...

I don't think other people care if you overrate him, I think you shouldn't overrate him for the sake of your own fanbase, so as to not be disappointed in the end. Let him be who he is, a defensive specialist who may chip in offensively down the road. He'll never fill out that 6'3 frame as you wish, as he doesn't have the body for it. He'll never become the top centre down the line, especially with Giroux there (but he doesn't have #1 centre skill in the first place). Like really, it's night and day comparing Giroux's skill to Couturier. The Q is the highest scoring league by the way, and that's why SC was able to dominate it, because of his height and puck control, mainly.

Hanazal is a great comparison, or a Frans Nielsen, or Bergeron as stated above. Jordan Staal is basically his highest upside along with Bergeron.

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08-26-2012, 01:13 AM
  #47
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actually disregard that Frans Nielsen comparison, that's just stupid on my part

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08-26-2012, 01:25 AM
  #48
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I agree regarding Couturier's offensive potential being a little bit overstated by some, but I also think the poster above me is aiming a little low.

My hopes for his offensive game are something along the lines of Joe Thorton. Not as good, but in that mold: good puck control, sneaky pin point passes, above average shot sedan paced skater, great iq. If he can be a 60 point center who plays defense how he does, that's a Jonathan Toews level player right there. That's dynamite. That's what I hope to see him achieve in the next few years.

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08-26-2012, 01:29 AM
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just my take but I still think that's expecting a lot. And Jonathan Toews isn't a 60 point player, he's at the cusp of being a point per game player now. I am of the opinion that Couturier would not have put up 50+ points if he was given minutes and opportunities like other rookies have gotten. for instance, Landeskog.

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08-26-2012, 01:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marklar View Post
just my take but I still think that's expecting a lot. And Jonathan Toews isn't a 60 point player, he's at the cusp of being a point per game player now. I am of the opinion that Couturier would not have put up 50+ points if he was given minutes and opportunities like other rookies have gotten. for instance, Landeskog.
Fair enough regarding Toews. I thought he scored about ten points less a season than he did, but I think you can still get my point.

As for as Couturier producing with greater opportunity....he's not landeskog, that's definitely true. Landeskog had an amazing season. But if you look at Couturier's production per60, and look at his qualcomp and most common linemates, and zone starts, and the stats suggest the potential for impressive production.

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