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Id give Lucic a 'Hartnall Contract' right now

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Old
08-22-2012, 12:15 PM
  #101
Kate08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
What? Lucic scored the majority of his goals from being physical....

He gets more dirty goals than anyone on the team. Do you really think hed get the same amount of points if he became a perimeter player?

If Lucic was guaranteed to be the player he is today for the next 6 years then I ink him to a long term deal in a heartbeat. On the other hand, I'm extremely wary of giving a player who relies on physicality heavily a long term deal when you don't know how long he'll last.

This frankly is less to do about Lucic personally, its more about the type of player he is. I'd rather not give a big money long term deal to a player like that.
The problem with your argument as you're presenting it, IMO, is that is seems like you you take issue with the terms suggested, but recognize that Lucic is a valuable player. But to illustrate that point, you're trying to downplay the productivity Lucic brings to the table. It's flawed, IMO.

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08-22-2012, 12:17 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
What? Lucic scored the majority of his goals from being physical....

He gets more dirty goals than anyone on the team. Do you really think hed get the same amount of points if he became a perimeter player?

If Lucic was guaranteed to be the player he is today for the next 6 years then I ink him to a long term deal in a heartbeat. On the other hand, I'm extremely wary of giving a player who relies on physicality heavily a long term deal when you don't know how long he'll last.

This frankly is less to do about Lucic personally, its more about the type of player he is. I'd rather not give a big money long term deal to a player like that.
The problem with that is you might not have much of a choice, if wants a 6 year deal you don't let a guy like him go because 4 years is the max you want to give him.

This isn't a Chris Kelly of Rich Peverley, you're going to be really hard pressed to replace this guy. There has also been lots of speculation that they might let Horton walk, so if you lose Horton and Lucic then this team is seriously ****ed and loses a lot of it's identity.

I get what you're saying about breaking down and such, but that could be said about pretty much any player and it's a risk you have to run to have certain players on your team.

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08-22-2012, 12:20 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Kate08 View Post
The problem with your argument as you're presenting it, IMO, is that is seems like you you take issue with the terms suggested, but recognize that Lucic is a valuable player. But to illustrate that point, you're trying to downplay the productivity Lucic brings to the table. It's flawed, IMO.
I absolutely am not, hes very valuable to this team. I'm worried because hes a physicality first type player he might break down. If he signs a 6 year deal he'll be in his 11th season in this league. 11 seasons of grinding, banging, fighting, etc.

Its less about Lucic than it is the type of player he is, I just think if we have the opportunity to give Lucic a shorter term deal we do it.

Like I've noted tho, we might not have a choice.

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08-22-2012, 12:26 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
I absolutely am not, hes very valuable to this team. I'm worried because hes a physicality first type player he might break down. If he signs a 6 year deal he'll be in his 11th season in this league. 11 seasons of grinding, banging, fighting, etc.

Its less about Lucic than it is the type of player he is, I just think if we have the opportunity to give Lucic a shorter term deal we do it.

Like I've noted tho, we might not have a choice.
Really? You said:

Quote:
Lucic is barely an NHL forward if he doesnt have his intimidation and physicality on point. Its not really a risk, I just think its unnecessary to give him a long term deal. I think the risk outweighs the reward.
You're trying to separate things that really shouldn't be separated, and really can't be proven at this point. If Lucic wasn't a physical player, he wouldn't be as effective, and if my aunt had testicles she'd be my uncle and all of that jazz.

Again, it seems like you're most concerned about the terms of the deal, and seem hell bent on the idea that he's going to break down before 30 due to the style of play he presents. Letting Lucic walk over 2 extra years that you think he won't be effective is the definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

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08-22-2012, 12:27 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by patty59 View Post
The problem with that is you might not have much of a choice, if wants a 6 year deal you don't let a guy like him go because 4 years is the max you want to give him.

This isn't a Chris Kelly of Rich Peverley, you're going to be really hard pressed to replace this guy. There has also been lots of speculation that they might let Horton walk, so if you lose Horton and Lucic then this team is seriously ****ed and loses a lot of it's identity.

I get what you're saying about breaking down and such, but that could be said about pretty much any player and it's a risk you have to run to have certain players on your team.
Completely understand that we might not have a choice, and if it comes down to signing him to 6 years or nothing then obviously I re sign him.

It also can't be said about every player patty. Lucic is an upper echelon player for us because hes physical and intimidating, to go with a great set of offensive abilities (compared to the common players with his physicality/intimidation). Signing Krejci or Seguin to a 6 year deal is less risky IMO because they arent involved in grinding, pounding and banging every shift. They are largely permiter players ( i use that term loosely). Do you think playmaking/shooting/stick skills (Seguin and Krejcis best skills) deteriorate at the same rate as Lucic'?

I'm just not thrilled at the potential of giving a player who is very physical almost eveyr game a long term deal...its more about that type of player not necessarily Lucic.

You're right tho, we could be forced to.

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08-22-2012, 12:33 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Kate08 View Post
Really? You said:



You're trying to separate things that really shouldn't be separated, and really can't be proven at this point. If Lucic wasn't a physical player, he wouldn't be as effective, and if my aunt had testicles she'd be my uncle and all of that jazz.

Again, it seems like you're most concerned about the terms of the deal, and seem hell bent on the idea that he's going to break down before 30 due to the style of play he presents. Letting Lucic walk over 2 extra years that you think he won't be effective is the definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
I've said from the beginning that Id rather give him a 2-3 year deal than a 6 year deal, not sure where you got 2 years from. I also never said anything about letting him walk, so why don't you go back and read my posts...

I don't think its necessary to give Lucic a long term deal if we can get him to a short term deal. You never know with players like Lucic how long theyll last. Neither of us have any insight into whether he'll last for the duration of a six year deal, so I'd rather err on the side of caution rather then throwing out 6 year deals like candy...makes no sense.

Like I've said, if we're forced to re sign him at 6 years, then I absolutely do it, but I wouldnt be happy about it. I'd much rather sign him to shorter term deals.

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08-22-2012, 12:42 PM
  #107
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Would people be ok with Lucic getting the same contract Hall just got? 7 years 42 million.

I'd be terrified of it...maybe I'm in the minority tho

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08-22-2012, 01:07 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Would people be ok with Lucic getting the same contract Hall just got? 7 years 42 million.

I'd be terrified of it...maybe I'm in the minority tho
If you're paying a forward that much money for that many years, he better be putting up 70+ a season consistently, or have the last name Bergeron.

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08-22-2012, 01:14 PM
  #109
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If you're paying a forward that much money for that many years, he better be putting up 70+ a season consistently, or have the last name Bergeron.
I don't think 70 points is out of reach for Lucic, if he got more PP time and the PP was ran better.

It's tough to put a number on how many points guys should get, I think if you are paying a forward 6M a year he should be amongst the top of your point getters and Lucic usually is and last time I checked this team is pretty solid.

I'm not advocating that the Bruins lay down 6M a year for him, but if you end up losing him over 300-500K it would be a mistake. IMO.

I think that he'll come in right around 5.5M and I am hoping it's for 5+ years.

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08-22-2012, 01:18 PM
  #110
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If you're paying a forward that much money for that many years, he better be putting up 70+ a season consistently, or have the last name Bergeron.
You would pay Marc-Andre Bergeron that much money?

you mad bro

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08-22-2012, 01:43 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Would people be ok with Lucic getting the same contract Hall just got? 7 years 42 million.

I'd be terrified of it...maybe I'm in the minority tho
I would trade Looch for Hall yesterday.

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08-22-2012, 03:06 PM
  #112
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Briere, who I would say is on the level of Horton/krejci...but my post was full of facts and debate backing my point. discussion I think they call it. I see no irony, and my name is a pearl jam song

either way, not worth it. Hartnell is a good comparison for what to expect from lucic's contract, I don't think there's a doubt about it. I expect him to come in at 5.5, maybe 6 like hartnells contract is without the extra years at the end. I'm not surprised you haven't been able to back your stance and have been reduced to "attempts" at insults.
I wasn't attempting to insult you. I don't know where you got that from. My posts also had a number of facts, but instead of writing them all out I sent you to do the critical thinking work. Now that I see that has failed I will thoroughly explain it to you.

You saying Lucic will get a 5.5-6 cap hit is somewhat agreeing with me. I don't know why you keep this going. At the same ageish hartnell received a 6 year 4.25 contract, which was considered a vast overpayment and not indicative of his value. Lucic should and probably will receive 5.5 because he is a superior player at that age.

The context and time frame I was referring to was the player's age as noted above, similarly their value is different when rising in their 20's rather than going on past 30. So therefore the extension hartnell just received, from a deranged GM mind you, is not of proper comparison to Lucic's upcoming contract.

The linemates is also still significant. Giroux and Briere were what drove those lines. Look at hartnell's performances without them. Whenever hartnell was taken away from those two he greatly struggled. In 2010, Hartnell was abysmal the entire year until he got put with Briere in the playoffs and excelled. It followed through to the next year where they were the flyers number 1 line.

As much as I love krejci he is not the sole driving factor of that line. I would argue Lucic and Krejci feed off of each other quite a bit and horton is somewhat of the third wheel. If you want to claim that Briere wasn't the main proponent of the line, fine and Hartnell did more than just plug it up, I disagree but whatever. However, I find it very hard to dispute that Hartnell did more to help Briere than Lucic does to help Krejci.

Bottom line, the linemates part was significant because Hartnell isn't as big a factor on the lines with which he scores, hence leading to Lucic being a much better player.

Therefore, I stand by my statement. Lucic is miles better than Hartnell.

Finally, I obviously know your name is a pearl jam song. I still question whether you got my amazing joke as you have shown no indication of getting it. Oh well.

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08-22-2012, 04:19 PM
  #113
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i think contracts like dave backes... scott hartnall... dave clarkson... even corey perry should establish the market for lucic

he is a physical guy first.. who also scores... but he doesnt exactly create offense... he simply cashes in if hes on a top line... hes good enough to keep up... not good enough to lead the charge

6 mill is first overall pick money for guys on their second deals... lucic would have to give up years and years of ufa before i even dream go to there for him. but we cant do it... the cap only stretches so far... if it takes 6 mill he has to be dealt for a truckload of return. we win with depth here... lucic isnt an elite first liner able to regullary dominate his matchups

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08-22-2012, 05:51 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Lol did you just not read my post? Go back and look at what I said.

Do you think Lucic is still a top six forward if he isnt physical and intimidating? Absolutely not. He might be a bottom sixer, maybe.

His value mostly comes from his physicality and intimidation.
Yes, he is a 1st line LW whether he plays physical or not. His value mostly comes from his production not his physicality. People have been complaining that he isn't physical enough the last 2 years and he put up his best 2 years.

He has the 24th best production in the league in the last 2 years. Ahead of Backstrom, Gaborik, Kane, Thornton, Iginla, Elias, Perry, B Richards, Kopitar, Pacioretty, Semin, Neal, Krejci, Bergeron, Lecavalier, Nash, Ryan, Skinner, Hall, Hartnell, Getzlaf, Marleau, Kovalchuk, Parise, etc, etc.... Some of these guys play PK but many don't and none are close to Lucic in physical play. Lucic is younger than most of these guys as well.

All Hartnell's contract tells me is that Lucic is worth 5.5 to 6 million. Lucic is a better player and while Hartnell plays a similar physical game it is Lucic light. No one is scared to go into the corner with Hartnell. Lucic will be in his prime 6 years not backside of his career. If he was a free agent I bet 29 teams would pay about 6 million for 6 years if they had the cap room.

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08-22-2012, 06:14 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
What? Lucic scored the majority of his goals from being physical....

He gets more dirty goals than anyone on the team. Do you really think hed get the same amount of points if he became a perimeter player?

If Lucic was guaranteed to be the player he is today for the next 6 years then I ink him to a long term deal in a heartbeat. On the other hand, I'm extremely wary of giving a player who relies on physicality heavily a long term deal when you don't know how long he'll last.

This frankly is less to do about Lucic personally, its more about the type of player he is. I'd rather not give a big money long term deal to a player like that.
Bolded is completely wrong. Go watch all his goals. He gets more from outside, 2 on 1's and breakaways than from in front. His average goal distance is midpack on the Bruins. The "dirty" ones he gets in front, he isn't being banged on at all by guys. He is left to stand free because no one can move him. Players try to front him and control his stick.

He isn't likely to break down because he hits frequently. The guys being hit are much more likely to break down. There are a lot of physical guys and they don't just break down at age 24 to 29. He doesn't take punishment in front of the net, he doesn't take concussion producing type hits (knock on wood), he doesn't block a lot of shots. The only extra risk he has is because he fights but he shouldn't be doing that very often against any goons. He actually has less risk factors than many others for getting hurt. There would be nothing wrong with a 6 year contract.

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08-22-2012, 06:35 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Alberta_OReilly_Fan View Post
i think contracts like dave backes... scott hartnall... dave clarkson... even corey perry should establish the market for lucic

he is a physical guy first.. who also scores... but he doesnt exactly create offense... he simply cashes in if hes on a top line... hes good enough to keep up... not good enough to lead the charge

6 mill is first overall pick money for guys on their second deals... lucic would have to give up years and years of ufa before i even dream go to there for him. but we cant do it... the cap only stretches so far... if it takes 6 mill he has to be dealt for a truckload of return. we win with depth here... lucic isnt an elite first liner able to regullary dominate his matchups
Yes he does regularly dominate his matchups.

Except for Perry those guys aren't close to Lucic in production and none intimidate or fight like Lucic can. Perry will be getting about 6.5 plus after this year. They are also all 3 plus years older while Lucic is at the start of his prime. Lucic deserves a higher number than any of them except Perry.

The only thing I agree with is that if you can get a truckload in return for him than you think about it. No one should be untouchable if the return is worth it.

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08-22-2012, 06:37 PM
  #117
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I wasn't attempting to insult you. I don't know where you got that from. My posts also had a number of facts, but instead of writing them all out I sent you to do the critical thinking work. Now that I see that has failed I will thoroughly explain it to you.

You saying Lucic will get a 5.5-6 cap hit is somewhat agreeing with me. I don't know why you keep this going. At the same ageish hartnell received a 6 year 4.25 contract, which was considered a vast overpayment and not indicative of his value. Lucic should and probably will receive 5.5 because he is a superior player at that age.

The context and time frame I was referring to was the player's age as noted above, similarly their value is different when rising in their 20's rather than going on past 30. So therefore the extension hartnell just received, from a deranged GM mind you, is not of proper comparison to Lucic's upcoming contract.

The linemates is also still significant. Giroux and Briere were what drove those lines. Look at hartnell's performances without them. Whenever hartnell was taken away from those two he greatly struggled. In 2010, Hartnell was abysmal the entire year until he got put with Briere in the playoffs and excelled. It followed through to the next year where they were the flyers number 1 line.

As much as I love krejci he is not the sole driving factor of that line. I would argue Lucic and Krejci feed off of each other quite a bit and horton is somewhat of the third wheel. If you want to claim that Briere wasn't the main proponent of the line, fine and Hartnell did more than just plug it up, I disagree but whatever. However, I find it very hard to dispute that Hartnell did more to help Briere than Lucic does to help Krejci.

Bottom line, the linemates part was significant because Hartnell isn't as big a factor on the lines with which he scores, hence leading to Lucic being a much better player.

Therefore, I stand by my statement. Lucic is miles better than Hartnell.

Finally, I obviously know your name is a pearl jam song. I still question whether you got my amazing joke as you have shown no indication of getting it. Oh well.
I did just pick up on the Bugs reference, I'll give you that haha...missed it being wrapped up in the conversation.

But I still put Lucic and Hartnell on equal playing field, Hartnell being the better offensive player and Lucic being the more intimidating factor.

You could also argue though that Lucic's offensive numbers have struggled without Krejci, and you can argue that Lucic doesn't help Krejci cause his best year was with more finesse players in Wheeler and Ryder. Either way, I'd say we've hit an agree to disagree situation. I think 4.75 for Hartnell with all he brings and the fact that he was at 37 goals this year, Giroux or not, is a steal...especially considering the market right now...but the 4.75 is a result of a couple years lower than the cap hit at the end. I look at the 6 and 5.5 Hartnell will be getting over the next 4 and could easily see Lucic get 4 years at 5.5 or 6 because it's very comparable...but then again, I view Hartnell as more than plugging a line. Agree to disagree I suppose.

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08-23-2012, 02:22 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by BrainOfJ View Post
I did just pick up on the Bugs reference, I'll give you that haha...missed it being wrapped up in the conversation.

But I still put Lucic and Hartnell on equal playing field, Hartnell being the better offensive player and Lucic being the more intimidating factor.

You could also argue though that Lucic's offensive numbers have struggled without Krejci, and you can argue that Lucic doesn't help Krejci cause his best year was with more finesse players in Wheeler and Ryder. Either way, I'd say we've hit an agree to disagree situation. I think 4.75 for Hartnell with all he brings and the fact that he was at 37 goals this year, Giroux or not, is a steal...especially considering the market right now...but the 4.75 is a result of a couple years lower than the cap hit at the end. I look at the 6 and 5.5 Hartnell will be getting over the next 4 and could easily see Lucic get 4 years at 5.5 or 6 because it's very comparable...but then again, I view Hartnell as more than plugging a line. Agree to disagree I suppose.
I consent to agree/disagree, but the final thing I want to say is that Krejci's peak year was in a rare circumstance where he got 30 of his points in one month due to receiving extremely good favorable defensive matchups, since no one really knew just how good he was back then.

I consider Krejci's peak to be the last two years where he received top defensive matchups and still produced, which was done with Lucic, obviously Krejci has that "engine" factor in the regular season where he seems to stop skating at times, but that's something different entirely.

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08-23-2012, 09:46 PM
  #119
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Lucic is RFA and if I say any more you can take it as an insult and you should.

People talk here just to be LOUD.

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08-23-2012, 10:53 PM
  #120
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Lucic is RFA and if I say any more you can take it as an insult and you should.

People talk here just to be LOUD.
Not sure who this is to or what you mean but it sounds like you are doing the same except without giving any input. If you have some give it. If you don't like the thread ignore it. If people take offense that is their problem.

If you have an opinion on why Lucic shouldn't get more than Hartnell going into his prime age 24 to 29 years vs Hartnell's 30 to 35 years, than I would like to see you bring some evidence to back it up. If you think he should get more than we are in agreement.

If you don't think this should be a thread than I agree but there is still some good discussion in it. I don't see why a thread pops up every time someone signs. There is no 1 contract that sets the rate for most players (though Hall-Seguin is close) or everyone would be making millions more than Gomez. That said RFA vs UFA means very little in today's NHL especially when you are buying out UFA years. Since there isn't any difference, and Lucic & Hartnell are comparable players; here we are.

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08-24-2012, 06:02 AM
  #121
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The problem with that is you might not have much of a choice, if wants a 6 year deal you don't let a guy like him go because 4 years is the max you want to give him.

This isn't a Chris Kelly of Rich Peverley, you're going to be really hard pressed to replace this guy. There has also been lots of speculation that they might let Horton walk, so if you lose Horton and Lucic then this team is seriously ****ed and loses a lot of it's identity.

I get what you're saying about breaking down and such, but that could be said about pretty much any player and it's a risk you have to run to have certain players on your team.
Good pts, losing Horton, IMO, wouldn`t have quite the affect on this team that the loss of a Looch would have IF replaced. Not that Horty isn`t valuable as that isn`t true but Looch is pretty much the standard that we hear most broadcasters talk about when the phrase "power forward" is used, Hartnell plays a 'similiar' game to Looch`s, but brings a DB game to the table......if I were starting a team, and they were the two players I had to start with by picking one, I pick Looch 10 days of the week

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08-24-2012, 06:06 AM
  #122
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I would trade Looch for Hall yesterday.
Love Hall, incredibly entertaining, but if I`m an Oiler fan, I`d be incredibly concerned about his inability to stay healthy and picking his spots to go full tilt and body positioning (he absorbs hits very poorly), constantly puts himself in direct path to contact which clearly he isn`t able to absorb at this stage

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08-24-2012, 09:51 AM
  #123
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Yes he does regularly dominate his matchups.

Except for Perry those guys aren't close to Lucic in production and none intimidate or fight like Lucic can. Perry will be getting about 6.5 plus after this year. They are also all 3 plus years older while Lucic is at the start of his prime. Lucic deserves a higher number than any of them except Perry.

The only thing I agree with is that if you can get a truckload in return for him than you think about it. No one should be untouchable if the return is worth it.
when you watch lucic do you ever get the feeling that he could be put on a third line and taken off the pp... and still be a 20 goal scorer? I dont. I love what he is... and what he is, is special. Hes a monster that can keep up with top lines. Kind of like a later day Clark Gillies.

Gillies was a huge part of a few cup winning teams.. but he was never THE GUY. f he was being paid more then potvin and bossey and trottier and even smith... something is wrong. That is my fear over whacking our cap for a guy like Lucic too. You say he regularly dominates his matchups but it isnt true at all. When hes very physical no one can match him. Other stars cant be this physical.. other goons cant remotely play with Lucic. But, he just doesnt bring his physical game day-after-day. Injuries do slow him down even more then they do non-physical guys. If Lucic isnt crushing people then he becomes a very average to below average matchup on a first line. His defense isnt world class... his offense isnt world class. He only becomes special when he has his physical game at full power.

Now obviously the dream/hope is that he will be physical when we need him. Lucic has the ability to almost win a series by himself. Im not sure if any other forward on our team has that ability. There are games when Lucic can be the most dominant player even in matchups against people like Ovechkin and Crosby. If Lucic is having one of his monster games... he is an incredibly unique performer.

But last year.. he and his line were barely plus players despite our team being a very dominant team. He and his line were getting outmatched on a regular basis through the early part of the regular season... then at playoff time were non factors.

So, we cant just say that Lucic manages tio bring it every night the way a Perry does on a more consistient basis. Id never expect anyone to be 100% everynight, but when Lucic has his off nights he becomes a little more average then some other stars do on their offnights. He doesnt create offense when he has an off night. He still has decent enough hands he could get some loose pucks or crash a rebound or two... but he just isnt a really dangerous guy on his off ngihts

that said... i have a hard time making him our highest paid player... and at 6 mill he becomes our highest paid player. Then what do Seguin and Bergeron get on their next deals? And how many 6 mill guys can a team have before all of its depth gets sacraficed? Are Lucic/Bergeron/Seguin as good as Crosby/Malkin/Neal? we dont win by having 1-2 superstars making this type of money... not with our team we dont... we need depth

If Lucic could be effective 50-60-70% of the time even I am more inclined to pay him but I dont see it yet. His great games are so great and they stand out.. they are highlight material and make us love the guy.. his bad games dont normally super suck so they dont stand out that way... but they are ineffective and they do outnumber his great games

id give Lucic a Hartnall deal... he might be able to get more but some guys take hometown discounts to help the team they want to be on... if Lucic was willing, then id do it. the Hartnall deal seems a good price to me to get Lucic here long term. At 6 mill though I couldnt possibly sign off on a long term deal

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08-24-2012, 09:54 AM
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Love Hall, incredibly entertaining, but if I`m an Oiler fan, I`d be incredibly concerned about his inability to stay healthy and picking his spots to go full tilt and body positioning (he absorbs hits very poorly), constantly puts himself in direct path to contact which clearly he isn`t able to absorb at this stage
i think halls injures so far were a fluke fighting accident and a bad shoulder...

i guess shoulders are something anyone can mess up if they did get hit or throw a hit... it happens. It is normal for physical players to throw and take more hits then non physical players. Even Oreilly my favorite guy of all time got hurt sometimes playing a physical style. I doubt the Oilers are more concerned over Hall then they would be any other player they tie 6 mill into.

at least missed games due to injuries are covered by insurance sometimes/and eligible for ltir.

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08-24-2012, 09:31 PM
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when you watch lucic do you ever get the feeling that he could be put on a third line and taken off the pp... and still be a 20 goal scorer? I dont. I love what he is... and what he is, is special. Hes a monster that can keep up with top lines. Kind of like a later day Clark Gillies.

Yes, easily. If you are doing that for Lucic then do it for everyone else. Lucic was 18th in the league in ES Pts/60 this year with players over 20 games. He doesn't need the powerplay and in fact gets less time than most top line forwards. That is why some get more points. Lucic was ahead of Neal (who is a better comp contract), and well ahead of Hartnell. He is also much better over a 2 year period. Lucic didn't play with Malkin or Giroux.

I easily put Lucic with Kelly & Peverley over Neal, Hartnell with their 3rd line guys and no powerplay time. He would dominate 3rd lines. Think Krejci - when he was on the 3rd line. Lucic will dominate their stats as he does now at even strength, without 2 of the best NHL players. Let's put either of those guys on the Bruins with Lucic's ES and PP time and put Lucic with Malkin or Giroux and give him their ES and PP time. Lucic would look like a 7 to 8 million dollar player in comparison.


You say he regularly dominates his matchups but it isnt true at all.

Yes it is, yes he does. That is what the numbers show. Offensively, physically, +/-. Lucic was a +7 with his linemates being much worse. He is plus 35 over the last 2 years. Plus 43 for his career. He is plus 25 in only 62 playoff games. Neal was only +6 and is a minus for his career. Neal is a minus in the playoffs. Hartnell was a +19 this year and +33 over 2 years. Hartnell is a -10 in the playoffs.

When hes very physical no one can match him. Other stars cant be this physical.. other goons cant remotely play with Lucic. But, he just doesnt bring his physical game day-after-day.

Neither do the other guys and neither is as good at it. He also doesn't need his physical game. His production is fine on its own. People have been complaining that he isn't physical enough and he put up his 2 best seasons which were 24th in the league in 2 year production. The 5 right ahead of him - Ovechkin, Hossa, Toews, Tavares, Eberle. The 5 right behind him - Backstrom, Gaborik, Kane, Jagr, Thornton. Also behind him - Iginla, Kessel, Neal, Perry, Nash, Ryan, Hartnell, Parise, etc.

Injuries do slow him down even more then they do non-physical guys. If Lucic isnt crushing people then he becomes a very average to below average matchup on a first line. His defense isnt world class correct... his offense isnt world class He certainly isn't Malkin but the numbers show otherwise.. He only becomes special when he has his physical game at full power. No, see responses, above and below.

Now obviously the dream/hope is that he will be physical when we need him. Lucic has the ability to almost win a series by himself. Im not sure if any other forward on our team has that ability. There are games when Lucic can be the most dominant player even in matchups against people like Ovechkin and Crosby. If Lucic is having one of his monster games... he is an incredibly unique performer.

But last year.. he and his line were barely plus players despite our team being a very dominant team. He and his line were getting outmatched on a regular basis through the early part of the regular season... then at playoff time were non factors.

Almost everyone else was more of a non factor. Lucic was still a +7 with worse linemates regular season and tied for 2nd in forward points in the playoffs while leading the team in hits and he was a +2.

So, we cant just say that Lucic manages tio bring it every night the way a Perry does on a more consistient basis.

And we can't say that Perry brings it on a more consistent basis either. He scores more because he plays more and for all his offense is only +2 over the last 2 years and only a +4 in the playoffs. Lucic actually has better production numbers this year and over 2 years. Lucic had more points than Perry this year. The "insert Bruin player" here is less consistent than X player is a myth. Except for an elite few no player brings it every night. Bruins players are not less consistent than every other player that always gets brought up in comparison or trade threads. Perry's MVP season looks like an outlier and I already said Perry should get more money.

Id never expect anyone to be 100% everynight, but when Lucic has his off nights he becomes a little more average then some other stars do on their offnights. He doesnt create offense when he has an off night. He still has decent enough hands he could get some loose pucks or crash a rebound or two... but he just isnt a really dangerous guy on his off ngihts Most players aren't.

that said... i have a hard time making him our highest paid player... and at 6 mill he becomes our highest paid player.

Chara is still our highest paid player. Seguin and Bergeron should and probably will get 6 or slightly above.

Then what do Seguin and Bergeron get on their next deals? And how many 6 mill guys can a team have before all of its depth gets sacraficed? Are Lucic/Bergeron/Seguin as good as Crosby/Malkin/Neal? we dont win by having 1-2 superstars making this type of money... not with our team we dont... we need depth

Is anyone as good as Crosby and Malkin? They are making much more than 6 million. The Bruins can survive. The B's superstar will be Seguin with a great supporting cast and Chara on defense (maybe 2 - Hamilton) and hopefully in goal with Rask. I'll put our overall team up against Pittsburgh or anyone else.

If Lucic could be effective 50-60-70% of the time even I am more inclined to pay him but I dont see it yet. His great games are so great and they stand out.. they are highlight material and make us love the guy.. his bad games dont normally super suck so they dont stand out that way... but they are ineffective and they do outnumber his great games

LOL! You are saying he isn't effective 30 to 50% of the time. 28 goals and 62pts of ineffectiveness is good enough for me. I guess you really think he is a 90 point player then. I guess he should just bring it more often. If it was only that easy and we would be paying him 7.5 million plus.

id give Lucic a Hartnall deal...

Anyone in their right mind would give Lucic a Hartnell deal. That is a steal for the Bruins.

he might be able to get more but some guys take hometown discounts to help the team they want to be on... if Lucic was willing, then id do it. the Hartnall deal seems a good price to me to get Lucic here long term. At 6 mill though I couldnt possibly sign off on a long term deal
Look I don't want to give him 6 million but he can command that much, and I would be willing to bet any team that can afford that contract would pay him in a second to get him and off the Bruins. No 1 contract is a barometer for a Lucic deal. 1st, he is in a league of his own when it comes to production/toughness. He should be commanding the market setting contract. Hartnell isn't a good comp except in style of play but if that is what you want to use than Lucic deserves 6 million. Lucic is better, bigger, tougher, younger, RFA vs UFA (which doesn't matter anymore). For every fair or underpaid contract the B's can point to; Lucic can point to every overpaid guy that he outproduces, while showing hit reel and fight highlights to Chia.

Lucic deserves well over what Hartnell got. I hope he takes a discount and signs the same thing but I wouldn't count on it. If he pushes for 6 million you pay it or get a huge return for him. I would rather keep him but no one should be untouchable if the right return is there.

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