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Lance Armstrong will admit to doping (1/11 report)

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Old
08-24-2012, 10:34 PM
  #76
invictus
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There are no heroes in sports. Good on the man for overcoming cancer to come back and do big things. It was a fun story. Him doping or not doesn't change my life. Him winning Tour de Frances or not doesn't pay my bills.

Maybe I'd feel differently if this effected Crosby (or some other athlete in a sport I am more passionate about), but I gave up on there being honor and integrity in pro sports a long time ago. I watch because I want to tune out from the world for a few hours. Anything beyond that, and...meh.

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08-25-2012, 01:57 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon View Post
Good point, T-Mob was always a doping **** show (especially when Bjarne Riis was the team leader).

I've heard unsubstantiated rumors that Kloden paid to make a doping violation go away at some point. No idea how serious of one it was alleged to have been though.
I think you are referring to him paying a 25,000 euro fine in the 2006 Frieburg doping case to stop investigation. As per german law it is not an admission of guilt. Stupid, but thats what it is.

I have a theory that Kloden was content to be domestique(to Ullrich, Vino, Contador, Armstrong) even though he was capable of winning the race himself and was even in that position a few times. Its like he was afraid that the target would be on his back if he ever won the TdF.

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Originally Posted by octopi View Post
How'd he destroy them? called them liars? Sued them?
You can start by reading up on his very public bullying of fellow cyclist/doper Fillipo Simeoni during the 2004 TdF and turning the peleton against him, or the threats and harassment meted to Frankie Andreu's wife by Armstrong and co. Armstrong had enormous clout with the media, the sponsors and the peleton. He absolutely had no moral compunction to use that clout in every way possible to browbeat his opponents into submission.

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08-25-2012, 02:12 AM
  #78
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People (and the media) saying he didn't fail a single test over his career are wrong though. It's simply not true.

He did fail a test that should have him banned, but gave a medical prescription after he was tested positive which of course is absolutely not allowed.
UCI let it go though, and why they always chose to close their eyes on LA is a mystery to me.

That said, after reading here for years that LA was chased by "jealous french" (said by LA himself BTW), it's good to see that he was sunk by fellow americans. I've always thought using the xenophobic argument was highly irritating. Especially when you see how Virenque was mocked in the media for YEARS.

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08-25-2012, 03:58 AM
  #79
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Off course he used doping but so did about 95 % of the peloton at the time he was racing so to me he won his titles fair. USADA is overstepping its authority on this case. Only UCI and ASO can strip him of his titles and i doubt the evidence for this is strong enough.

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08-25-2012, 06:04 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo View Post
People (and the media) saying he didn't fail a single test over his career are wrong though. It's simply not true.

He did fail a test that should have him banned, but gave a medical prescription after he was tested positive which of course is absolutely not allowed.
UCI let it go though, and why they always chose to close their eyes on LA is a mystery to me.


That said, after reading here for years that LA was chased by "jealous french" (said by LA himself BTW), it's good to see that he was sunk by fellow americans. I've always thought using the xenophobic argument was highly irritating. Especially when you see how Virenque was mocked in the media for YEARS.
yeah.
Tour de Suisse 2001, UCI hide it

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08-25-2012, 06:17 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NMF78 View Post
Off course he used doping but so did about 95 % of the peloton at the time he was racing so to me he won his titles fair. USADA is overstepping its authority on this case. Only UCI and ASO can strip him of his titles and i doubt the evidence for this is strong enough.
Off course, but Armstrong keeps denying taking doping and uses his success to expand his empire. If he would've retired in silence and withdrawn from the public eye like Miguel Indurain, nothing would've happened and noone would come to hunt him down.

On another note: Merckx needs to **** and get out. His head is so far up Armstrong's *** it's not pretty anymore. He has been caught three times and Axel visited Michele Ferrari as well. Like father like son it seems.

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08-25-2012, 06:39 AM
  #82
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While I haven't been following this religiously or anything, but I'm very unhappy with the 3 or 4 US media articles I read on this in my attempt to find out what is the evidence against Armstrong. None of them mention it. They all resort to a "he said-she said" style narrative, or "what's next?" topic. What the hell!? Why don't they say what the actual case against him is??

Has anybody found a US-based article that focuses specifically on USADA's allegations, what evidence and witnesses they are supposed to have?

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08-25-2012, 10:15 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBaronIndian View Post
I think you are referring to him paying a 25,000 euro fine in the 2006 Frieburg doping case to stop investigation. As per german law it is not an admission of guilt. Stupid, but thats what it is.

I have a theory that Kloden was content to be domestique(to Ullrich, Vino, Contador, Armstrong) even though he was capable of winning the race himself and was even in that position a few times. Its like he was afraid that the target would be on his back if he ever won the TdF.



You can start by reading up on his very public bullying of fellow cyclist/doper Fillipo Simeoni during the 2004 TdF and turning the peleton against him, or the threats and harassment meted to Frankie Andreu's wife by Armstrong and co. Armstrong had enormous clout with the media, the sponsors and the peleton. He absolutely had no moral compunction to use that clout in every way possible to browbeat his opponents into submission.
I love posts like this, very CN Clinic like! Lance turned the peloton against Simeoni?!?! The peloton didn't need anyone to turn them against a rider who they felt was calling them dopers and claiming he was clean. Good, God the hatred for Armstrong is so asinine that you guys just make crap up to fit. He probably doped (unlike others, without 100% proof I don't claim to know anyone did anything) but he was no worse then all of the other big names and even domestiques during his time.

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08-25-2012, 10:27 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChChChChimo View Post
but he was no worse then all of the other big names and even domestiques during his time.
But unlike those other cyclists, Armstrong kept repeating that he never took any doping. Looking back at that era, that sounds very plausible... If LA really didn't take any EPO, Ullrich would've ripped him apart, especially in the '03 edition.

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08-25-2012, 10:40 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by tobo View Post
But unlike those other cyclists, Armstrong kept repeating that he never took any doping. Looking back at that era, that sounds very plausible... If LA really didn't take any EPO, Ullrich would've ripped him apart, especially in the '03 edition.
Unlike those other cyclists? Do you mean like Pantani? When did Ullrich and Riis admit and how long did they deny? That's just three names from the past, there are many more. How about three who have actually been busted but are still adamant that they did not dope...Vino, Contador and Valverde.

Yet somehow, in your guys minds Armstrong is the only one denying doping. You really should post at the Clinic as that is the prevailing mentality, say anything against LA, even if it makes no sense or is false, and attack anyone who does not proclaim him to be the Antichrist.

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08-25-2012, 10:48 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Vasilevski View Post
yeah.
Tour de Suisse 2001, UCI hide it
Is there anything else on that than word of Floyd Landis?

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08-25-2012, 10:49 AM
  #87
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nice rant!

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08-25-2012, 12:36 PM
  #88
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Is there anything else on that than word of Floyd Landis?
Tyler Hamilton's word too.

I believe them, but who knows

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08-25-2012, 12:40 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChChChChimo View Post
I love posts like this, very CN Clinic like! Lance turned the peloton against Simeoni?!?! The peloton didn't need anyone to turn them against a rider who they felt was calling them dopers and claiming he was clean. Good, God the hatred for Armstrong is so asinine that you guys just make crap up to fit. He probably doped (unlike others, without 100% proof I don't claim to know anyone did anything) but he was no worse then all of the other big names and even domestiques during his time.
First of all, real mature way of debating by calling me a hater. Looking back, what he did Simeoni was nothing short of bullying. If I remember correctly, Italian authorities threatened to bring witness intimidation case against Armstrong as Simeoni was expected to testify against him. Also do you deny Mrs Andreu being targeted by Armstrong after she refused to slander David Walsh in public? I gave the 2 most obvious examples. There were many others who were targeted similarly.

Secondly please look at little bit about my posting history about Armstrong before calling me a hater. Armstrong to me is a disgraced hero, the man who once got me interested in the sport of cycling.

Also "they all did it" is such a cop out excuse. I dont care that they all doped, what I care about is that he doped.

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08-25-2012, 01:17 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by RedBaronIndian View Post
First of all, real mature way of debating by calling me a hater. Looking back, what he did Simeoni was nothing short of bullying. If I remember correctly, Italian authorities threatened to bring witness intimidation case against Armstrong as Simeoni was expected to testify against him. Also do you deny Mrs Andreu being targeted by Armstrong after she refused to slander David Walsh in public? I gave the 2 most obvious examples. There were many others who were targeted similarly.

Secondly please look at little bit about my posting history about Armstrong before calling me a hater. Armstrong to me is a disgraced hero, the man who once got me interested in the sport of cycling.

Also "they all did it" is such a cop out excuse. I dont care that they all doped, what I care about is that he doped.
1) I did not call you a "hater."

2) Besty Andreu deserves everything she gets, the women has some serious issues and this comes from personal experience with her that did not involve me discussing Armstrong in any way with her.

3) I did not use "they all did it" as an excuse I simply refuted the BS you guys are spewing about Armstrong being the only one who denies or the one who shunned Simeoni. Very clinic like! Twisting things to mean what you want them to mean so you can go after the poster.

4) nice job completely avoiding my points about the peloton and Simeoni. Also very clinic like. Seriously, go join that forum you would be embraced for your attitude.

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08-25-2012, 01:17 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by tobo View Post

nice rant!
Nice job avoiding admitting you were wrong.

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08-25-2012, 02:09 PM
  #92
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Tell me exactly why I would waste any time discussing with someone who blatantly ignores all evidence against Armstrong?

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08-25-2012, 02:30 PM
  #93
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Tell me exactly why I would waste any time discussing with someone who blatantly ignores all evidence against Armstrong?
Where did I ignore evidence? What real evidence do we even have beyond rumors and hearsay? Did I not say I think he doped? What does any of this have to do with what I pointed out to you that shows how much hyperbole you used?

Keep doing everything you can to avoid stepping up to the facts I brought that shot down your asinine comment.

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08-25-2012, 02:59 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChChChChimo View Post
Where did I ignore evidence? What real evidence do we even have beyond rumors and hearsay? Did I not say I think he doped? What does any of this have to do with what I pointed out to you that shows how much hyperbole you used?

Keep doing everything you can to avoid stepping up to the facts I brought that shot down your asinine comment.
Again, he was caught. He did fail a doping test.
And covered by UCI.

So please stop with the "non evidence".

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08-25-2012, 03:09 PM
  #95
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How many baseball players have been essentially convicted of doping by the public and the media based on the same type of evidence, or even less of it, as the case against Armstrong?

Jeff Bagwell might not get elected to the Hall of Fame, despite having a career that was clearly good enough, based on nothing more than the time period he played and the size of his arms.

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08-25-2012, 03:11 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Evilo View Post
Again, he was caught. He did fail a doping test.
And covered by UCI.

So please stop with the "non evidence".
Have we seen any actual proof of this? I have heard the rumors about the TUE but have never seen anything that actually proves it. Of course a positive for a minute amount of corticoid in 1999 hardly proves the allegations today and, at worst, would have been a minor ban at that time. A quick search found Massi getting nailed for cortisone and getting a six month ban in 1998 and Magnien tested positive for corticoids in the 2000 Tour and got a three month ban.

I think it is funny how the anti-LA crowd are so quick to jump on any rumor as fact, yet demand precise proof if it concerns a possibility of LA being clean.

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08-25-2012, 03:53 PM
  #97
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Another cheater in the sport of cycling. Who didn't see this coming?

Ho-Hum

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Old
08-25-2012, 04:21 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
Another cheater in the sport of cycling. Who didn't see this coming?

Ho-Hum
Well cycling is one of the few pro sports that has actual, serious drug testing. Imagine what the NHL, KHL, NBA, NFL, MLB, Premier League, La Liga, Serie A, etc. would be like if the instituted the same testing as pro cycling.

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08-25-2012, 04:36 PM
  #99
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Guys, please knock it off with the personal attacks... Let's keep things on topic.

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08-25-2012, 05:06 PM
  #100
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Report: Armstrong warned before all doping controls

American said to have been given time “to cover his tracks”

Lance Armstrong was “warned before all planned doping controls,” an adviser to the French anti-doping agency AFLD has said. Michel Rieu, scientific adviser to AFLD, said this was only one of the methods the American used to escape detection of his doping.



http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/repo...oping-controls

It would've been nice if the article gave more information, such as:
1. Do they know who tipped Armstrong off?
2. What kind of difficulties did the inspectors face?
3. How did they inspect? How could LA thin his blood or switch urine when the inspectors are on top of him?
4. Did any of his henchmen talk to the authorities about his/her job? If not, do you have proof to back up your statement about his jet?
5. Did the UCI give a reason why they banned these statistics?

Probably, the AFLD does have proof to back these statements up, but this article is very unsatisfying.


Last edited by Homeland Security: 08-25-2012 at 10:17 PM. Reason: Cannot post entire article.
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