The Business of HockeyDiscuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Franchise sales, valuations, TV contracts, ratings, expansion, relocation, the CBA and work stoppage discussion goes here.
Bettman "we recovered well last time""world’s greatest fans"
Makes sense to me. Does Bettman wanna leave that dark of cloud to shadow the rest of the regular season and playoffs?
Fehr is the one that didn't want to talk until after the playoffs. Fehr said "there is plenty of time".
Good ol' Donny boy is responsible for the lockout. He knew full well the owners need to change the CBA and would not play with it in place as is. His tactic is to try to make Gary look like the bad guy when it is really his stall tactics forcing the lockout.
Pretty sure that works in all forms of business. The employees must either make cuts or be cut for the business to survive if said business isn't making enough money.
If the current salary structure for the players isn't viable, they cannot be surprised when cuts are asked of them. Of all operating expenses, player salaries are most likely the largest and most easily fixable.
See above. Also, is it fair for the owners to bail out their competitors and watch them potentially succeed with their money?
So what I understand from this is that the player (aka employees) of the teams that are losing money should make cuts. However the players on teams like Toronto who make money shouldn't take cuts.?
The league overall increased revenues. Your logic is faulty.
Nope and if they wanna strike on that I'd call them greedy but wouldnt be disgusted at their terminology.
What has annoyed me a great deal is the way they are trying to position themselves as these helpless players who are just simple folk.
These guys are well advised and well compensated. They want more; say it. If you have the power to get it then power to you. Don't try to fool ppl into thinking you just wanna play and its the bully owners that are doing this to you. You wanna play? Sign the deal the owners gave you. You'll make more than enough to survive.
You wanna be "fairly compensated" then strike. But don't expect any sympathy from me for either the fans or the owners. Both are greedy. PERIOD
You my friend have the wrong information.
I have never seen anything, heard anything about the players demanding that "they want more". I've only heard that they are willing to take less over the next three years.
Last edited by rockinghorse: 08-26-2012 at 03:08 AM.
No. But it shows people are absolute sheep, and will take a beating just to see a bunch of men play a kids games.
If you come back after full year you deserve what you get.
If the lockout is 2 years then the NHL done. For Good. And so is hockey as a major sport.
How are fans taking a beating? Will waiting an extra couple of months or a full season really be that detrimental to the lives of yourself and others? Hockey is a business for owners, is a livelihood for players, by no stretch of the imagination is our stake in this cause (entertainment) as big as the former parties mentioned. I don't know about you, but I'm not being manipulated and abused by the NHL, they haven't brainwashed me nor have they convinced me that I can't live my life without them. I support the league because it brings me entertainment and as fans, that is all that is owed to us. The day the product stops entertaining me is when I'll stop supporting it. If the day comes that I stop loving hockey yet support it anyways for no good reason, only then will I call myself a sheep.
Fehr is the one that didn't want to talk until after the playoffs. Fehr said "there is plenty of time".
Good ol' Donny boy is responsible for the lockout. He knew full well the owners need to change the CBA and would not play with it in place as is. His tactic is to try to make Gary look like the bad guy when it is really his stall tactics forcing the lockout.
Sigh... The owners hold the hammer and lockout the players. The owners provide the information at their leisure ie: 76,000 pages of information and that isn't all of it.
There is plenty of time if you are dealing with reasonable people. Did you think the owner's original offer was reasonable? No one did at the time. What has changed?
Sigh... The owners hold the hammer and lockout the players. The owners provide the information at their leisure ie: 76,000 pages of information and that isn't all of it.
There is plenty of time if you are dealing with reasonable people. Did you think the owner's original offer was reasonable? No one did at the time. What has changed?
Both sides played their part when it comes to these negotiations. It's the same as it ever was. Players could've came to the table a lot sooner than they did and using the season as an excuse when baseball didn't have a problem doing it is silly. The owners obviously don't help when they try to keep their books closed instead of partnering up with the players as they should.
When you know that both sides are going to play their games then it should be known that three months isn't enough time to negotiate and you knew it was going to happen when Fehr constantly made reference to the fact that the owners don't have to use 9/15 as a deadline and can play w/o one in place.
Both sides played their part when it comes to these negotiations. It's the same as it ever was. Players could've came to the table a lot sooner than they did and using the season as an excuse when baseball didn't have a problem doing it is silly. The owners obviously don't help when they try to keep their books closed instead of partnering up with the players as they should.
When you know that both sides are going to play their games then it should be known that three months isn't enough time to negotiate and you knew it was going to happen when Fehr constantly made reference to the fact that the owners don't have to use 9/15 as a deadline and can play w/o one in place.
I don't know the background of the ins and outs of the issues surrounding the start of the process. What was needed to start. Getting the revenue information or what the owners wanted to see in the new CBA.
You made a good point about keeping books closed. This could lead to possibly underreporting revenue? Getting a current and accurate accounting is essential for any fair & honest negotiations.
You know what? I have confidence that the owners and players will be flexible and openminded to come to a fair agreement. They may have to be creative. Not everyone is going to be 100% happy.
It is apt from one perspective - The owners don't seem capable of managing themselves so they look to the players to make sacrifices and control the business for them. It's not very smart or mature but it seems to be how the owners want their league run - they want others to do their work for them. I wonder if that's how they run their "outside" businesses.
Again,any attempt by the NHL to "manage" themselves is collusion,illegal.
Sigh... The owners hold the hammer and lockout the players. The owners provide the information at their leisure ie: 76,000 pages of information and that isn't all of it.
There is plenty of time if you are dealing with reasonable people. Did you think the owner's original offer was reasonable? No one did at the time. What has changed?
The 76000 pages of info was requested by the players in the July meeting, 9 months after they were asked to come to the table. That one is all on the players.
I no I do not think the owners request was reasonable, but it is not likely too far off what will eventually be signed and was a decent opening round of negotiations.
Sigh... The owners hold the hammer and lockout the players. The owners provide the information at their leisure ie: 76,000 pages of information and that isn't all of it.
There is plenty of time if you are dealing with reasonable people. Did you think the owner's original offer was reasonable? No one did at the time. What has changed?
It's a negotiation. You don't put in your best proposal initially, you put in something to start the negotiations with.
The owners obviously don't help when they try to keep their books closed instead of partnering up with the players as they should.
The books as far as revenue have always been open to the players. They have auditing processes in place to ensure they get their share of the revenue.
As for the full books, with costs, the players did not ask for it until into July, and then they were given it.
Its not the I am supporting the owners (or players), but for me the most frustrating part of this process has been the consistent delays on the part of the players. They could have come to the table far sooner, they could have asked for the information far sooner, but they did not. Fehr really disappointed me this week when he said its too early in the process to start to look at the bigger issues.
Quote:
When you know that both sides are going to play their games then it should be known that three months isn't enough time to negotiate and you knew it was going to happen when Fehr constantly made reference to the fact that the owners don't have to use 9/15 as a deadline and can play w/o one in place.
And the owners have consistently said they will not. Fehr keeps trying to control the negotiations and process to his agenda. Its just not very likely to work like it did in baseball.
I'm not putting the lockout on anyone in particular, owners or players, I have been involved enough in negotiations before to know they are not always simple. But putting any blame on the owners for the late start is definitely incorrect.
That's why they'll take a big hit. Because they majority don't see any issues with the game. (although I disagree)
This will be another year gone. Fehr vs Bettman here.
They're not installing a whole new economic system, so, no, they're not going to lose a whole season. The issues outstanding have more to do with owners than players.
For instance, if both sides want to see more money for themselves, Fehr (and the PA) should demand that the league abandon Phoenix, and whatever other franchises that since the last lockout have proven to be a black hole to revenues while being unable to find a suitable long-term owner. For as much money as they've lost there, it probably outweighs what some other franchises have actually made, and by the time they could get in a position where Phoenix would be worth the money, time, and energy, we'll be collective bargaining again.
Just seeing the number of fans on boards like this one in the middle of summer makes me think that a lock-out will not have any affect on most fans. Hockey fans are passionate and somewhat addicted to the game, no doubt about that. For any movement or idea to have any affect, fans have to stay away from all thing hockey-related and just get it out of their head for a while. That's not happening anytime soon.
Fehr is the one that didn't want to talk until after the playoffs. Fehr said "there is plenty of time".
Good ol' Donny boy is responsible for the lockout. He knew full well the owners need to change the CBA and would not play with it in place as is. His tactic is to try to make Gary look like the bad guy when it is really his stall tactics forcing the lockout.
Good point. Fehr was already working for the NHLPA, why couldn't he "get some work done" while the season was still going on? Isn't that his one and only job for the NHLPA?
What did he do for those last 4 months or so? Now everything is under a time crunch - all because the NHLPA wanted to stall.
Good point. Fehr was already working for the NHLPA, why couldn't he "get some work done" while the season was still going on? Isn't that his one and only job for the NHLPA?
What did he do for those last 4 months or so? Now everything is under a time crunch - all because the NHLPA wanted to stall.
What he said about not starting in Feb was that he was still learning the business and meeting with players.
On one hand I like the personal rapport he has developed with the players, I think that is a huge step forward for the NHLPA. He obviously took the time to do that.
On the other hand, he's had 25 years experience in this and has been on the NHLPA for well over a year at that point and knew this was coming. I still feel he could have done more earlier to move this process along.
Just seeing the number of fans on boards like this one in the middle of summer makes me think that a lock-out will not have any affect on most fans. Hockey fans are passionate and somewhat addicted to the game, no doubt about that. For any movement or idea to have any affect, fans have to stay away from all thing hockey-related and just get it out of their head for a while. That's not happening anytime soon.
Of course the fans will watch. Last lock out I gave up my 4 lower bowl seats, I was so disgusted. They sold them inside of 3 milliseconds.
Now I just hang a fishing net across my 9 foot home theater screen, have my teenage son walk by me yelling Cold Beer and I pay him $10 for some foamy horse p**s in a plastic glass, pay my wife $8 for a crappy hot dog and when the game is over I walk to the car in -30 I park 9 blocks away and drive it to the heated garage, just to get the full "in game" experience.
I'd rather just watch it on NHL Live and be done with it. Sure they're getting my $150 dollar a year subscription, but I am not paying $40,000 a year anymore for the above enjoyment.
They're not installing a whole new economic system, so, no, they're not going to lose a whole season. The issues outstanding have more to do with owners than players.
For instance, if both sides want to see more money for themselves, Fehr (and the PA) should demand that the league abandon Phoenix, and whatever other franchises that since the last lockout have proven to be a black hole to revenues while being unable to find a suitable long-term owner. For as much money as they've lost there, it probably outweighs what some other franchises have actually made, and by the time they could get in a position where Phoenix would be worth the money, time, and energy, we'll be collective bargaining again.
Agree with the Phx situation - they should move to QC, today! But that ship has sailed for the 12-13 season (if there is a season).
But last summer, from the first time I heard about Alt moving to Wpg, they were there within 5 weeks it seemed. Couldn't the same be done w/ moving Phoenix to Quebec?
The NHL would do much better owning & operating a team in QC for 1 season, and then buyers would come out of the woodwork.
If there's a lock out, slash ticket prices for the rest of the season to give fans back what they lost. The NHL and NHLPA wouldn't have the millions and billions of dollars to fight about if fans didn't show up.
Lets see if the owners really have the stones for that.
For instance, if both sides want to see more money for themselves, Fehr (and the PA) should demand that the league abandon Phoenix, and whatever other franchises that since the last lockout have proven to be a black hole to revenues while being unable to find a suitable long-term owner.
Fehr is the one that didn't want to talk until after the playoffs. Fehr said "there is plenty of time".
Good ol' Donny boy is responsible for the lockout. He knew full well the owners need to change the CBA and would not play with it in place as is. His tactic is to try to make Gary look like the bad guy when it is really his stall tactics forcing the lockout.
Really because I thought the lockout was because this league is full of incompetent business people who can't make a dime. I mean when Toronto makes more money then 27 teams combined then you have a fundamental flaw in management.
What he said about not starting in Feb was that he was still learning the business and meeting with players.
On one hand I like the personal rapport he has developed with the players, I think that is a huge step forward for the NHLPA. He obviously took the time to do that.
On the other hand, he's had 25 years experience in this and has been on the NHLPA for well over a year at that point and knew this was coming. I still feel he could have done more earlier to move this process along.
He should have tried to gather some info from the owners on what issues they are not happy with and the same from the players to prepare better for the negotiations.
They would be absolutely fine with the Coyotes moving to a market where everyone makes more money. Fehr should be asking the owners where they get off demanding the players give some money back when they've literally pissed money away in Phoenix for 3 years.
