'For whatever reason'.... with the implication being that there is no good reason, right?
Lilja was always under-rated in Detroit. Mostly because of the type of d-man he was (defensive defenseman) combined with the role he played (3rd-pairing PKer), along with the amount of seething dislike many outspoken people had for him. But, given his role, he was real good for a time.
If Lebda was ever "very good," it was because of how protected he was, as Heaton discussed. Really though, he was never more than mediocre, with a singular special talent that provided him with value (his speed).
'For whatever reason'.... with the implication being that there is no good reason, right?
Lilja was always under-rated in Detroit. Mostly because of the type of d-man he was (defensive defenseman) combined with the role he played (3rd-pairing PKer), along with the amount of seething dislike many outspoken people had for him. But, given his role, he was real good for a time.
If Lebda was ever "very good," it was because of how protected he was, as Heaton discussed. Really though, he was never more than mediocre, with a singular special talent that provided him with value (his speed).
No, sorry, Jaster. Both were "protected". It's also odd that one of their peaks with the Wings was when they played as a pair.
How the heck can you guys keep coming back with this stuff when Lidstrom was the guy's friggin' partner?
'For whatever reason'.... with the implication being that there is no good reason, right?
Lilja was always under-rated in Detroit. Mostly because of the type of d-man he was (defensive defenseman) combined with the role he played (3rd-pairing PKer), along with the amount of seething dislike many outspoken people had for him. But, given his role, he was real good for a time.
If Lebda was ever "very good," it was because of how protected he was, as Heaton discussed. Really though, he was never more than mediocre, with a singular special talent that provided him with value (his speed).
Ah. So Lilja was good. Lebda was protected.
Lilja was a below average defensive defenseman. Poor skater. Poor passer. Pretty soft for a guy his size. Limited hockey intelligence.
The only thing he did well was block shots. Sometimes.
Don't get me wrong. He was fine in a third pairing, PK role if you had a good team around him.
Decent guy to keep around if he's willing to play for $1.5M or less and if he doesn't ***** and moan when he loses his job to a youngster.
'For whatever reason'.... with the implication being that there is no good reason, right?
Lilja was always under-rated in Detroit. Mostly because of the type of d-man he was (defensive defenseman) combined with the role he played (3rd-pairing PKer), along with the amount of seething dislike many outspoken people had for him. But, given his role, he was real good for a time.
If Lebda was ever "very good," it was because of how protected he was, as Heaton discussed. Really though, he was never more than mediocre, with a singular special talent that provided him with value (his speed).
Um.... Lilja made some of the most bonehead plays I've seen, one example remember the year anaheim won the cup? He passed the puck right to Selanne for the overtime win, he was just a cheap supposedly physical dman.
Um.... Lilja made some of the most bonehead plays I've seen, one example remember the year anaheim won the cup? He passed the puck right to Selanne for the overtime win, he was just a cheap supposedly physical dman.
People always remember him from that mistake, but forgot that he scored the Wings only goal in the same game. Where was the offence?
Lilja was pretty bad at 2006 playoffs (paired with Lidström, not sheltered), when Sergei Samsonov dominated against him with his brutal speed. But after that season (when sheltered), he did pretty well in his limited role. Was worth of his money, no less or more.
At 2008 finals, he stole the roster spot from Chelios and was great at final series. And he was paired with Lebda.
But of course, he is not a Top6 defenceman anymore. Not even to 3rd pair. Maybe some 7th-8th defenceman, like he will be at Philly. Sits on the pressbox, so the youngsters don't have to and jumps in if there's some injuries.
Because some people like to argue over semantics and word definitions. 'Really good' to me might mean '****ing great!!!!!' to someone else.
Bottom line is that Lilja played over his head in '06-'07 and it's great he did since it allowed the Wings to gain a ton of experience used the following year winning the cup.
Um.... Lilja made some of the most bonehead plays I've seen, one example remember the year anaheim won the cup? He passed the puck right to Selanne for the overtime win, he was just a cheap supposedly physical dman.
Lilja is the WORST D-man i ever seen in my life in a Wings Uni... he was TERRIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No, sorry, Jaster. Both were "protected". It's also odd that one of their peaks with the Wings was when they played as a pair.
How the heck can you guys keep coming back with this stuff when Lidstrom was the guy's friggin' partner?
Kinda hard to play top PK minutes and be completely protected. Of course at ES he was kept away from the toughest competition. 2008 Lilja is what this team is missing to this day (along with a #1 defensemen and a #4 defensemen).
The fact that we're even still arguing about a #5/6 defensemen during the best times in the past decade as a Wings fan is hilarious btw.
Kinda hard to play top PK minutes and be completely protected. Of course at ES he was kept away from the toughest competition. 2008 Lilja is what this team is missing to this day (along with a #1 defensemen and a #4 defensemen).
The fact that we're even still arguing about a #5/6 defensemen during the best times in the past decade as a Wings fan is hilarious btw.
You're all over the place on this topic, Heater. You can't include his entire career for the Wings as consideration, then whittle it down to a one year period as representative of his entire time. I could say that 2008 Lebda is what made the difference because Cheli x Lilja was an utter disaster. So Babs then thought it was Lilja, so he benches Lilly and it's a little better but still kind of rough. He finally puts Lebs and Lilly together and bam, we've got a solid third pair.
The way this started was a claim that Lebda was only ever decent because he played with Cheli. I asked if Lilja ever benefited from playing with either Cheli or Lidstrom. You see, some of these guys were outstanding, future HOF defensemen, and the others were barely above scrub level except under tightly controlled situations/conditions (ergo......protected).
Your claim too about top PK minutes only holds for his last season. Prior to Cheli's retirement, Lilja was not on the top PK unit.
Edit: And if people didn't make these absolute claims or accuse others of revisionism, we wouldn't need to argue. Or---- you know, if we had hockey coming up for this season we could lament how pitiful our future D will be.
You're all over the place on this topic, Heater. You can't include his entire career for the Wings as consideration, then whittle it down to a one year period as representative of his entire time.
There were two careers Lilja had in Detroit, one pre-concussion and one post-concussion. Pre-concussion, Lilja was solid in his role, things changed after he got hurt.
There were two careers Lilja had in Detroit, one pre-concussion and one post-concussion. Pre-concussion, Lilja was solid in his role, things changed after he got hurt.
He was OK.
But this defense was suibpar until we added the speed of Rafalski and Stuart.
There were two careers Lilja had in Detroit, one pre-concussion and one post-concussion. Pre-concussion, Lilja was solid in his role, things changed after he got hurt.
Lilja's role wasn't constant during the pre-C period. He was playing with Lidstrom initially, team felt we could better, Markov was signed, then he left and Stu was brought in via trade. Schneider swapped for Rafalski. Those two moves, which CB highlights, made a HUGE difference to the Wings roster, and it also forced Lilja to a limited ES role and second pairing PK role. It wasn't until Chelios was obsolete that you saw Lilly with more PK time. So he had the ONE year when he actually was very reliable in his role (the first time he had that particular role solidified) and then he got hurt. We may never know if that was an anomaly or what you could have expected from Lilja as long as the other spots didn't change.
Anyway, Chelios, Lidstrom, Rafalski and Stuart are all gone now. Only Kronwall remains from that elite group. That's a bigger problem than any Lils ever created.
In the span of one offseason, Ericsson has gone from being hated and overpaid to severely overrated and overpaid.
I dont see Ericsson as a "good" defensive d-man. I see him as average and occasionally good. The guy still has a lot of work to do. Smith will be significantly better than him by the end of next season.
'For whatever reason'.... with the implication being that there is no good reason, right?
Lilja was always under-rated in Detroit. Mostly because of the type of d-man he was (defensive defenseman) combined with the role he played (3rd-pairing PKer), along with the amount of seething dislike many outspoken people had for him. But, given his role, he was real good for a time.
If Lebda was ever "very good," it was because of how protected he was, as Heaton discussed. Really though, he was never more than mediocre, with a singular special talent that provided him with value (his speed).
Not even shamed to admit it...THIS is why I didn't like Lilja. This terrible play may have cost the Wings a cup.
