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Will the "Zucc" be back? (3/25: Agrees to terms)

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Old
08-26-2012, 04:43 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Rangers didn't give him a proper chance IMO. Same thing happened with Erixon. I fear for our non-NA prospects when they jump over to NA. (Hagelin excluded)
So, Rangers management should've just ignored that Zuccarello and Erixon weren't physically prepared to play in the National Hockey League and just...go with it, I guess?

Thats laughable.

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08-26-2012, 04:46 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Rangerfan4life90 View Post
How exactly was he treated right here?
How was he not? He was useless to this team if he wasnt a legitimate top 6 offensive player.

.5 points per game, serious issues with his size, strength, and skating, and little to no defensive awareness? That should earn you a chance?

He was a small guy that a lot of people rooted for. Dont let that get in the way of reality.

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08-26-2012, 04:46 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Rangers didn't give him a proper chance IMO. Same thing happened with Erixon.
Hardly. Zuccarello got his chance, and was OK. Nothing special. He was awful in the playoffs ('11) and fairly useless for the most part this year, although he was decent down the stretch until he broke his hand, which is unlucky, but when he recovered, we were well into the ECF and there's no point in messing with the lineup to 'experiment' that deep. He made the decision to bolt to the KHL instead of stay and try to make it during the preseason after having a strong finish.

As for Erixon, again, he was OK, but he was far from physically ready and was not exactly a vital piece of the organization. The Rangers have loads of talented defenseman, and McIlrath/Skjei are there to replace him. There's a difference between not giving him a chance and trading him in a deal such as the Nash one.

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I fear for our non-NA prospects when they jump over to NA. (Hagelin excluded)
Why? If they earn a spot, they earn a spot. Whether or not they're European means nothing. I don't care if Zuccarello was Canadian, he wouldn't have had a spot. Neither would Erixon.

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08-26-2012, 04:52 PM
  #29
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The difference between Erixon and Zuccarello is that Zuccarello was an established player in another professional league and Erixon is a 21 year old prospect. The Rangers didn't go looking to unload Erixon. He was included in a blockbuster deal. Zuccarello will not ever put up Parenteau numbers. I didn't want the Rangers to give up on Parenteau. Zuccarello will never be a quality NHL player.

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08-26-2012, 04:52 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
How was he not? He was useless to this team if he wasnt a legitimate top 6 offensive player.

.5 points per game, serious issues with his size, strength, and skating, and little to no defensive awareness? That should earn you a chance?

He was a small guy that a lot of people rooted for. Dont let that get in the way of reality.
Him being small has nothing to do with this.

He had 23 points in 42 games in his first year. That's not bad at all.

I felt he had improved with his size, strength, and skating this season. It just sucks he got hurt.

He'll end up sticking in the NHL in the future for sure.

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08-26-2012, 04:55 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Rangerfan4life90 View Post
Him being small has nothing to do with this.

He had 23 points in 42 games in his first year. That's not bad at all.

I felt he had improved with his size, strength, and skating this season. It just sucks he got hurt.

He'll end up sticking in the NHL in the future for sure.
For sure? I doubt it. Maybe he will.

If he does, it will be with a terrible team thats OK with incomplete players.

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08-26-2012, 04:57 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Mr Atoz View Post
The difference between Erixon and Zuccarello is that Zuccarello was an established player in another professional league and Erixon is a 21 year old prospect. The Rangers didn't go looking to unload Erixon. He was included in a blockbuster deal. Zuccarello will not ever put up Parenteau numbers. I didn't want the Rangers to give up on Parenteau. Zuccarello will never be a quality NHL player.
Zuccarello and Parenteau are very, very similar. If Zuccarello played with a great center like Tavares, I dont doubt he could put up big numbers.

But, again - and much like Parenteau, it wouldnt be on a successful team because hes severely lacking in other parts of the game.

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08-26-2012, 05:03 PM
  #33
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He was given a shot, and he got injured.

That's real life for ya.

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08-26-2012, 05:47 PM
  #34
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Can he learn to play center? We need a 3C kinda badly...

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08-26-2012, 05:48 PM
  #35
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Fair doesn't even enter into this.

Rangers finished first in the East. Considerably above my expectations. That should be enough to say that the personnel decisions that Torts made were the correct ones. This isn't little league baseball where all the kids no matter how good or bad get to play.

Given the same ice time as Prust would Zucc have scored more? For sure. But the other things that Prust did Zucc couldn't do in a million years.

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08-26-2012, 05:50 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
"Not treated right" is one of my favorite descriptions of a player.

Because, 99% of the time, reality is the player just wasnt good enough to be a full-time NHL player.

Zuccarello is not an exception to that.
correct

See: Thomas Pock

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08-26-2012, 06:08 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
So, Rangers management should've just ignored that Zuccarello and Erixon weren't physically prepared to play in the National Hockey League and just...go with it, I guess?

Thats laughable.
Ain't that the truth! Some of these Rangers fans just won't let go of some of these former players who were all "softer than a bag of marshmallows after being toasted on the campfire."

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08-26-2012, 06:28 PM
  #38
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Erixon is going to be a good player. He was not ready. He needs more strength which will come with time. He needs more commitment. He can't be running to the bench when one of his teammates is in a scrap. I expect that will come too--at least if he gives it and Columbus a chance. Which is to say he is young and he needs to mature. He needs to know what his responsibilities are to his team and he has to get stronger.

Truthfully as far as the Nash deal goes the guy I hated to give up--and he didn't have a good season was Dubinsky because even despite the bad season Dubinsky knows what it takes and he's willing and he's a good player--not great--but he would be a top 9 forward on any team in the NHL and a top 6 on most.

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08-26-2012, 07:29 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Hightide85 View Post
correct

See: Thomas Pock
Scored in his first NHL game than was nearly never heard from again.

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08-26-2012, 09:54 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
So, Rangers management should've just ignored that Zuccarello and Erixon weren't physically prepared to play in the National Hockey League and just...go with it, I guess?

Thats laughable.
No, they should've let them play themselves out. They have the talent to, they just weren't given a shot because they were 'soft'.

Zuccarello had a 0.54 PPG in his first NHL season, whether you want to admit it or not, those are quality NHL numbers.

He only had 10 games played last season and he immediately got the boot to Hartford after a bad 3 games. Plugs like Avery and Rupp stayed up because they bought 'grit' to their game.

As for Erixon, it's pretty disheartening that Stu "I can't clear the puck out my own zone" Bickel got twice as many games than Erixon. I guess Bickel is filled with grit, pugnacity, truculence, testosterone and belligerence and is a natural 'winner', even though he's pretty awful at every facet of the game

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08-26-2012, 10:15 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
Hardly. Zuccarello got his chance, and was OK. Nothing special. He was awful in the playoffs ('11) and fairly useless for the most part this year, although he was decent down the stretch until he broke his hand, which is unlucky, but when he recovered, we were well into the ECF and there's no point in messing with the lineup to 'experiment' that deep. He made the decision to bolt to the KHL instead of stay and try to make it during the preseason after having a strong finish.
1. Zuccarello had the same PPG as Stepan in his rookie season.

2. Zuccarello didn't get his chance at all. He was scoreless for 3 games in October and got sent down for the majority of the season. He was called up late in March, despite tearing up the AHL. He played pretty well down the stretch with Boyle on the 3rd line, it added another element to our line up. His season unfortunately came to an end with the fluke wrist injury.

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As for Erixon, again, he was OK, but he was far from physically ready and was not exactly a vital piece of the organization. The Rangers have loads of talented defenseman, and McIlrath/Skjei are there to replace him. There's a difference between not giving him a chance and trading him in a deal such as the Nash one.
I agree that he wasn't overly special in his stints and he was quite weak by NHL standards. But, I don't think it was worth hot dogging him into games when he didn't even get ice time, either way, I still see him as better than Bickel, despite being weak. That's what I mean by him not getting a fair shot.

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Why? If they earn a spot, they earn a spot. Whether or not they're European means nothing. I don't care if Zuccarello was Canadian, he wouldn't have had a spot. Neither would Erixon.
No, I think both of these guys were on short leashes because they were 'soft euros' and not the prototypical, 'heart and soul' NA player.

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08-26-2012, 10:19 PM
  #42
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No, he will not return.

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08-26-2012, 10:24 PM
  #43
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if Avery came back anything is possible

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08-26-2012, 10:25 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
1. Zuccarello had the same PPG as Stepan in his rookie season.

2. Zuccarello didn't get his chance at all. He was scoreless for 3 games in October and got sent down for the majority of the season. He was called up late in March, despite tearing up the AHL. He played pretty well down the stretch with Boyle on the 3rd line, it added another element to our line up. His season unfortunately came to an end with the fluke wrist injury.
Stepan was a 20 year old straight out of the NCAA. Zuccarello was 23 with NA experience. Zuccarello, for all of his hype and supposed skill, should have outperformed Stepan, but it was the other way around. Stepan was a much more valuable player than Zuccarello ever was.

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I agree that he wasn't overly special in his stints and he was quite weak by NHL standards. But, I don't think it was worth hot dogging him into games when he didn't even get ice time, either way, I still see him as better than Bickel, despite being weak. That's what I mean by him not getting a fair shot.
Why play a promising young player in a bad situation, where he'll get 10 minutes and be physically dominated? That's stupid.

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No, I think both of these guys were on short leashes because they were 'soft euros' and not the prototypical, 'heart and soul' NA player.
Hardly. Zuccarello was 5'6 and an average skater. When he wasn't playing well offensively, he was downright useless. Most of the time, he was simply 'OK' offensively, and for a one-trick pony, that doesn't cut it. He was a player with heart, just like Prucha, but neither of them stuck in the lineup because they were small, weak, and overall, useless.

Erixon simply wasn't ready for the NHL. Bickel was tougher and added a good 6th D element in the regular season. I strongly doubt Erixon would have been any good in the playoffs. He probably would have been worse than Bickel.

This whole "oh he wasn't played because he's a Euro" stigma is ridiculous. Tortorella isn't basing his roster spots off of nationality.

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08-27-2012, 12:33 AM
  #45
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Sad as hell, but he dug his own grave with the interview..

The final "F U Rangers, I'll look elsewhere" straw was likely game 6 when he was passed up by Torts choosing an injured Dubi instead of him..

To put it mildly; He's leaving with good stats so the haters here will find someone else to vent theire frustrations on...

Looking at his stats;

52 games
8 goals
18 assists
26 points
+/- + 3
10 penalty mins
1 power play goal
3 game winning goals

The problem for zuke is that he was made the scapegoat after his first game in Sweden last season and the team looked piss poor...Then some players came up and played far better and became better and more important to the team than him...

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08-27-2012, 12:34 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
Stepan was a 20 year old straight out of the NCAA. Zuccarello was 23 with NA experience. Zuccarello, for all of his hype and supposed skill, should have outperformed Stepan, but it was the other way around. Stepan was a much more valuable player than Zuccarello ever was.
Of course he is, but that doesn't mean Zuccarello isn't valuable.

As you said, he was a hyped prospect coming into the big leagues.

I don't think anyone would've expected him to light the league on fire right away, but he did just as good as Stepan PPG wise. What's confusing me is why he wasn't given a shot, despite his production, even during his adjustment phase to NA ice.

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Why play a promising young player in a bad situation, where he'll get 10 minutes and be physically dominated? That's stupid.
Correct, this is true as well. I was fine with Erixon being sent down for seasoning, because he needed to bulk up. What I'm not happy about is that he wasn't given a fair shot at adjusting to the NHL pace like plugs like Bickel/Woywitka were. I feel as though if he was in game shape down the stretch and into the playoffs, we would've done much better in the playoffs with Erixon on the point rather than Bickel. Even if he only does get to play 10 minutes a game.

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Hardly. Zuccarello was 5'6 and an average skater. When he wasn't playing well offensively, he was downright useless. Most of the time, he was simply 'OK' offensively, and for a one-trick pony, that doesn't cut it. He was a player with heart, just like Prucha, but neither of them stuck in the lineup because they were small, weak, and overall, useless.
I don't think Zuccarello's skating is horrific, it's average like you said, yes. His offensive production was still pretty good for a third line rookie player, although he did get to play with the best players his whole stint. Just think there was untapped potential that needed more patience.

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Erixon simply wasn't ready for the NHL. Bickel was tougher and added a good 6th D element in the regular season. I strongly doubt Erixon would have been any good in the playoffs. He probably would have been worse than Bickel.
Nonsense. Bickel was absolutely the worst d-man I've ever seen to play for the NY Rangers in the playoffs. He was putrid and did nothing of significance to help the team. He didn't even play tough. That's a pretty bold estimation since I think Erixon would've been much better strictly based on his ability to move the puck out. Bickel literally does nothing to help the team. He is a bad hockey player.

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This whole "oh he wasn't played because he's a Euro" stigma is ridiculous. Tortorella isn't basing his roster spots off of nationality.
That's true. But I think the euros haven't been given time to adjust properly on NA ice.

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08-27-2012, 12:41 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
No, they should've let them play themselves out. They have the talent to, they just weren't given a shot because they were 'soft'.

Zuccarello had a 0.54 PPG in his first NHL season, whether you want to admit it or not, those are quality NHL numbers.

He only had 10 games played last season and he immediately got the boot to Hartford after a bad 3 games. Plugs like Avery and Rupp stayed up because they bought 'grit' to their game.

As for Erixon, it's pretty disheartening that Stu "I can't clear the puck out my own zone" Bickel got twice as many games than Erixon. I guess Bickel is filled with grit, pugnacity, truculence, testosterone and belligerence and is a natural 'winner', even though he's pretty awful at every facet of the game
I wasn't going to respond to this, but here it goes.

1. Zuccarello was well liked guy. You want to discuss PPG? Enjoy. This isn't a numbers game here. He wasn't a top 6 forward and his playing style didn't fit the way the Rangers play the game. It's as simple as that. He got a chance late in the season bc they were desperate for offense. He started to turn it on, but unfortunately broke his hand. 'Thems the breaks.' the Rangers weren't prepared to offer him a 1-way deal at this point so he jumped ship. I don't blame either party here.

2. Erixon. The Rangers tried him in the NHL early, and he CLEARLY needed more strength and seasoning. Do you remember his late season call up? They auditioned him, and decided he wasnt strong enough physically for playoff hockey. Just because a player is developing in the minors doesn't mean he "wasn't given an opportunity." Give me a break. You think Tortorella went with a lesser player bc he was North American? That's an absolute joke, and an insult to Tortorella. Bickel wasn't impressive at all, but he played against NHL players all year, and was strong enough to battle in the corners.

Your talk of European bias is laughable. Rangers gave a 'soft euro' named Gaborik a huge UFA deal. They brought up a young Swede named Hagelin, but oh yea, they were biased against Swedish Erixon - who they had just TRADED TO GET, because he's a 'soft euro.'

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08-27-2012, 01:05 AM
  #48
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Sad as hell, but he dug his own grave with the interview..

The final "F U Rangers, I'll look elsewhere" straw was likely game 6 when he was passed up by Torts choosing an injured Dubi instead of him..

To put it mildly; He's leaving with good stats so the haters here will find someone else to vent theire frustrations on...

Looking at his stats;

52 games
8 goals
18 assists
26 points
+/- + 3
10 penalty mins
1 power play goal
3 game winning goals

The problem for zuke is that he was made the scapegoat after his first game in Sweden last season and the team looked piss poor...Then some players came up and played far better and became better and more important to the team than him...
I definitely don't think it's fair to write a 2nd yr player off after 10 games into a NHL season. Especially one that has showed skill at the NHL level.

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08-27-2012, 01:19 AM
  #49
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I wasn't going to respond to this, but here it goes.

1. Zuccarello was well liked guy. You want to discuss PPG? Enjoy. This isn't a numbers game here. He wasn't a top 6 forward and his playing style didn't fit the way the Rangers play the game. It's as simple as that. He got a chance late in the season bc they were desperate for offense. He started to turn it on, but unfortunately broke his hand. 'Thems the breaks.' the Rangers weren't prepared to offer him a 1-way deal at this point so he jumped ship. I don't blame either party here.
If he only wanted a 1-way contract, I don't blame the Rangers either. He clearly hasn't earned it yet. I'm not sure if this is the case, but if it is, then I can understand why the Rangers balked at that.

Quote:
2. Erixon. The Rangers tried him in the NHL early, and he CLEARLY needed more strength and seasoning. Do you remember his late season call up? They auditioned him, and decided he wasnt strong enough physically for playoff hockey. Just because a player is developing in the minors doesn't mean he "wasn't given an opportunity." Give me a break. You think Tortorella went with a lesser player bc he was North American? That's an absolute joke, and an insult to Tortorella. Bickel wasn't impressive at all, but he played against NHL players all year, and was strong enough to battle in the corners.
Bickel strong on the corners? I didn't see it like that. He played 5 minutes per game and looked awful in it. Erixon was never this bad. I definitely think Erixon would've been a big improvement over Bickel, despite the physical grind of the playoffs, but unfortunately he wasn't given time to evaluate by the coaches during the regular season. He would've been a pretty underrated asset for the playoffs and a player that could actually lead a breakout, make smart offensive plays. Perhaps, I'm in the minority in this one, but Erixon may have been a huge asset for the team. Especially since the breakout from our defenders was our weak point all playoffs.

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Your talk of European bias is laughable. Rangers gave a 'soft euro' named Gaborik a huge UFA deal. They brought up a young Swede named Hagelin, but oh yea, they were biased against Swedish Erixon - who they had just TRADED TO GET, because he's a 'soft euro.'
Yeah, I worded it pretty badly there. Not 'European bias', but I think management didn't have enough patience with the kids overseas as most young Euros need an adjustment period to fill out their games.


Last edited by Kershaw: 08-27-2012 at 01:26 AM.
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08-27-2012, 01:40 AM
  #50
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Ain't that the truth! Some of these Rangers fans just won't let go of some of these former players who were all "softer than a bag of marshmallows after being toasted on the campfire."
Hey now! It's not his fault! He's European! Torts hates Euros duh

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