HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Pittsburgh Penguins
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The Fantasy Football Thread - The Playoffs

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-26-2012, 05:22 PM
  #76
Big McLargehuge
Global Moderator
Buff Drinklots
 
Big McLargehuge's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Country: Germany
Posts: 54,234
vCash: 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
Once you go independent defensive player system you never look back. The team defense is a horrible way to do fantasy, in many cases it's just pure luck. This way you can actually select individual players and your score coming out of your defense is more a matter of who you picked rather than what random lucky team defense had a good game that week or if their opponent was a puffball or not.

This also gives you more things you can watch in a game since you will have fantasy players on both sides of the ball, it makes sundays much more interesting.
Yeah...I started playing with IDP about 4 years ago and I hate playing in leagues that have team defense now.

The big thing for me is that it rewards active teams. A team with an auto-drafted IDP defense that is never checked is going to be giving up a ton of points to a novice who's keeping the roster updated. You don't just autodraft Pittsburgh and sit happy for all but one week of the year.

__________________
“The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile, but that it is indifferent. If we can come to terms with this indifference and accept the challenges of life within the boundaries of death, our existence as a species can have genuine meaning and fulfillment. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light.” - Stanley Kubrick
http://sprites.pokecheck.org/i/054.gif
Big McLargehuge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2012, 07:35 PM
  #77
Gooch
Registered User
 
Gooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Coeur d'Alene Idaho
Country: United States
Posts: 13,960
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke View Post
6 points for the player scoring a touchdown? Absurd!
Its too much of a % of a players total points. Why should a rb with 30 yards and a td get as much than one with 100 yards but no td? Because that 100 yard runner wasnt the lucky recipient of the free touchdown playcall on the goalline? If fantasy football is a measure of the individual players performances then lessening the value of touchdowns while increasing the value of individual stats is a better system.

Look at Ray Rice, now that his touchdown vulture (I believe it was mcgahee, probably wrong though) is off the roster he's a #1 fantasty running back. You cant tell me you havent been ticked off watching a game that you have a fantasy player on offense and see your player whether it's a qb or a wr with a big catch leading up to it only to miss the endzone by inches and then the next play the gimme touchdown is handed to the goalline back for the bulk of the bulk of the points.

Gooch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2012, 07:37 PM
  #78
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
 
Ogrezilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 32,484
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
Its too much of a % of a players total points. Why should a rb with 30 yards and a td get as much than one with 100 yards but no td? Because that 100 yard runner wasnt the lucky recipient of the free touchdown playcall on the goalline? If fantasy football is a measure of the individual players performances then lessening the value of touchdowns while increasing the value of individual stats is a better system.

Look at Ray Rice, now that his touchdown vulture (I believe it was mcgahee, probably wrong though) is off the roster he's a #1 fantasty running back. You cant tell me you havent been ticked off watching a game that you have a fantasy player on offense and see your player whether it's a qb or a wr with a big catch leading up to it only to miss the endzone by inches and then the next play the gimme touchdown is handed to the goalline back for the bulk of the bulk of the points.
ya, but scoring is the ultimate goal. getting to the 1 inch line is not. It's not like the other guy didn't get credit for his yards.

In hockey you see similar plays all the time. Geno or Sid make great plays, get a shot on net and it gets saved. Dupuis or Kunitz pop in and vulture the goal. Sid might have done most of the work, but Dupuis did the part that really matters the most. Dupuis rightfully gets the goal and Sid rightfully gets the assist.


Last edited by Ogrezilla: 08-26-2012 at 07:49 PM.
Ogrezilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2012, 07:52 PM
  #79
Gooch
Registered User
 
Gooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Coeur d'Alene Idaho
Country: United States
Posts: 13,960
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
ya, but scoring is the ultimate goal. getting to the 1 inch line is not.
Yeah and so is winning to a baseball pitcher and that's a stupid stat as well. Touchdowns in many cases consist of being the lucky guy who happens to get the playcall coming in that they're the one carrying the ball or receiving the pass when the ball is 3 yards out from the endzone. There could be a wide receiver who made a 60 yard catch and run who was nudged out of bounds right before the end zone and then the next play is a fullback dive and that fullback will get the same amount of points fantasy wise. Thats just stupid.

Gooch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2012, 07:53 PM
  #80
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
 
Ogrezilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 32,484
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
Yeah and so is winning to a baseball pitcher and that's a stupid stat as well. Touchdowns in many cases consist of being the lucky guy who happens to get the playcall coming in that they're the one carrying the ball or receiving the pass when the ball is 3 yards out from the endzone. There could be a wide receiver who made a 60 yard catch and run who was nudged out of bounds right before the end zone and then the next play is a fullback dive and that fullback will get the same amount of points fantasy wise. Thats just stupid.
I completely disagree. that 60 yard play is meaningless if you don't end up scoring.

Ogrezilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2012, 07:54 PM
  #81
Gooch
Registered User
 
Gooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Coeur d'Alene Idaho
Country: United States
Posts: 13,960
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
ya, but scoring is the ultimate goal. getting to the 1 inch line is not. It's not like the other guy didn't get credit for his yards.

In hockey you see similar plays all the time. Geno or Sid make great plays, get a shot on net and it gets saved. Dupuis or Kunitz pop in and vulture the goal. Sid might have done most of the work, but Dupuis did the part that really matters the most. Dupuis rightfully gets the goal and Sid rightfully gets the assist.
We're talking fantasy scoring here... I did not say touchdowns are overrated in real football, I said they're over scored in fantasy football. There is a significant difference. Also in hockey Crosby is compensated with a point which is equal to a goal so its really not the same thing at all.

Gooch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2012, 07:56 PM
  #82
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
 
Ogrezilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 32,484
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
We're talking fantasy scoring here... I did not say touchdowns are overrated in real football, I said they're over scored in fantasy football. There is a significant difference. Also in hockey Crosby is compensated with a point which is equal to a goal so its really not the same thing at all.
I have never seen a fantasy hockey league that values assists as much as goals. not once. Even in the head to head stat type scoring, there are hundreds more assists per season than goals. One goal is always more valuable than one assist in any fantasy hockey I've ever seen.

Ogrezilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2012, 07:59 PM
  #83
Gooch
Registered User
 
Gooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Coeur d'Alene Idaho
Country: United States
Posts: 13,960
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I completely disagree. that 60 yard play is meaningless if you don't end up scoring.
It might be meaningless IN A REAL GAME but you seem to not be grasping this is fantasy football. Our entire rosters and scoring system are entirely based off statistical prowess, not guts and determination or teamwork or any of those things that helps a team win as for our concerns which team wins is irrelevant. So when a fantastic day for a WR is a 100 yard 10 reception day getting a 60 yard completion should damn well be worth more than a fullback getting the dive call on the 1 yard line and converting.

Gooch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2012, 08:01 PM
  #84
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
 
Ogrezilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 32,484
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
It might be meaningless IN A REAL GAME but you seem to not be grasping this is fantasy football. Our entire rosters and scoring system are entirely based off statistical prowess, not guts and determination or teamwork or any of those things that helps a team win as for our concerns which team wins is irrelevant. So when a fantastic day for a WR is a 100 yard 10 reception day getting a 60 yard completion should damn well be worth more than a fullback getting the dive call on the 1 yard line and converting.
I completely grasp it and I completely disagree. Fantasy football is indeed based on measurable stats. Touchdowns are just as good a measurable stat as yards. A fantastic day for a short yardage fullback is 6 yards and 2 touchdowns.

Ogrezilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2012, 08:01 PM
  #85
Gooch
Registered User
 
Gooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Coeur d'Alene Idaho
Country: United States
Posts: 13,960
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I have never seen a fantasy hockey league that values assists as much as goals. not once. Even in the head to head stat type scoring, there are hundreds more assists per season than goals. One goal is always more valuable than one assist in any fantasy hockey I've ever seen.
In head to head scoring categories that assist will contribute in a few different statistical areas for that player. It'll help in the assist, points, +/- categories that are often kept in those types of leagues. You're missing out on the goal category which is just one of the others, its really not game breaking and not even close to this situation.

Gooch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2012, 08:02 PM
  #86
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
 
Ogrezilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 32,484
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
In head to head scoring categories that assist will contribute in a few different statistical areas for that player. It'll help in the assist, points, +/- categories that are often kept in those types of leagues. You're missing out on the goal category which is just one of the others, its really not game breaking and not even close to this situation.
and in football you still get points for the yardage.

Ogrezilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2012, 08:06 PM
  #87
Gooch
Registered User
 
Gooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Coeur d'Alene Idaho
Country: United States
Posts: 13,960
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I completely grasp it and I completely disagree. Fantasy football is indeed based on measurable stats. Touchdowns are just as good a measurable stat as yards.
To what ratio? I didnt say make touchdowns worth nothing, I just believe they're tuned to be worth too much point wise in a fantasy setting for the reasons I indicated. When you have a 60 yard completion by a WR that is a highlight reel type play and something that rarely happens if its not completed for a touchdown that is typically worth 6 points due to the 1 point per 10 yard scoring format. Most standard scoring I dont even believe they offer points for receptions. The touchdown is worth 6 points so a fullback getting the call on the 1 yard line which is a very high % success rate playcall will get the same points as that highlight reel play by the WR earlier despite a much more routine play.

I believe in the league I ran I knocked TD's to something like 4 points and counted points for receptions and increased points per yardage and increased point penalty for fumbles or interceptions thrown to offset some of the gains in points. How is that not a sensible way to score a fantasy sport?

Gooch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2012, 08:13 PM
  #88
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
 
Ogrezilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 32,484
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
To what ratio? I didnt say make touchdowns worth nothing, I just believe they're tuned to be worth too much point wise in a fantasy setting for the reasons I indicated. When you have a 60 yard completion by a WR that is a highlight reel type play and something that rarely happens if its not completed for a touchdown that is typically worth 6 points due to the 1 point per 10 yard scoring format. Most standard scoring I dont even believe they offer points for receptions. The touchdown is worth 6 points so a fullback getting the call on the 1 yard line which is a very high % success rate playcall will get the same points as that highlight reel play by the WR earlier despite a much more routine play.

I believe in the league I ran I knocked TD's to something like 4 points and counted points for receptions and increased points per yardage and increased point penalty for fumbles or interceptions thrown to offset some of the gains in points. How is that not a sensible way to score a fantasy sport?
its perfectly fine to do. but its not necessary. As long as the stats are somewhat predictable and the values are set beforehand, all is fair. Either way is perfectly fine for football, it just changes the values of different players. I'm just saying there is nothing wrong with touchdowns being the most important stat in fantasy football considering how important they are in real football.

Just out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on fieldgoals in fantasy?

Ogrezilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2012, 08:21 PM
  #89
Gooch
Registered User
 
Gooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Coeur d'Alene Idaho
Country: United States
Posts: 13,960
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
its perfectly fine to do. but its not necessary. As long as the stats are somewhat predictable and the values are set beforehand, all is fair. Either way is perfectly fine for football, it just changes the values of different players. I'm just saying there is nothing wrong with touchdowns being the most important stat in fantasy football considering how important they are in real football.

Just out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on fieldgoals in fantasy?
fieldgoals are fluff as theres not much of a difference between a great kicker and an average one. I do usually try to get Janiskowski due to his leg and long field goals being worth more but other than him there is little difference and its more of a situation on a team that is a factor of how many points a kicker will get than the kickers actual ability. Like if a team is real crappy in the redzone the kicker for that team will be worth more fantasy wise. Essentially it's almost like picking a team defense in a way.

Gooch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2012, 08:25 PM
  #90
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
 
Ogrezilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 32,484
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
fieldgoals are fluff as theres not much of a difference between a great kicker and an average one. I do usually try to get Janiskowski due to his leg and long field goals being worth more but other than him there is little difference and its more of a situation on a team that is a factor of how many points a kicker will get than the kickers actual ability. Like if a team is real crappy in the redzone the kicker for that team will be worth more fantasy wise. Essentially it's almost like picking a team defense in a way.
do you think a field goal should be worth 3 fantasy points? I don't see how you could reasonably set a touchdown to only be worth 4 if a fieldgoal is still 3. Make a fieldgoal half so 2, and now extra points should be 2/3 of a point.

Ogrezilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2012, 08:34 PM
  #91
Gooch
Registered User
 
Gooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Coeur d'Alene Idaho
Country: United States
Posts: 13,960
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
do you think a field goal should be worth 3 fantasy points? I don't see how you could reasonably set a touchdown to only be worth 4 if a fieldgoal is still 3. Make a fieldgoal half so 2, and now extra points should be 2/3 of a point.
It mostly evens out as the other team has a kicker as well so it really is not like they're competing. In the league I did I left kicking scoring unchanged as it wasnt as huge of an injustice.

A player who scores a lot of touchdowns will still rack up a solid amount of fantasy points in my scoring format. He'll typically have the yards or receptions (or both) to go along with this touchdowns that it will even out. What my scoring system got rid of was teh guys who were touchdown vultures, random fullbacks or whatnot who punched it in from the 1 yard line or a 2nd string TE who made their only catch of the game and that was it.

Gooch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-26-2012, 08:38 PM
  #92
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
 
Ogrezilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 32,484
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
It mostly evens out as the other team has a kicker as well so it really is not like they're competing. In the league I did I left kicking scoring unchanged as it wasnt as huge of an injustice.
That is true with touchdowns and any other player as well. As long as everyone has the same rules it will balance out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
A player who scores a lot of touchdowns will still rack up a solid amount of fantasy points in my scoring format. He'll typically have the yards or receptions (or both) to go along with this touchdowns that it will even out. What my scoring system got rid of was teh guys who were touchdown vultures, random fullbacks or whatnot who punched it in from the 1 yard line or a 2nd string TE who made their only catch of the game and that was it.
I just don't have a problem with those guys. They are almost all too unpredictable to pick up anyway.

Ogrezilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-27-2012, 08:50 AM
  #93
Gooch
Registered User
 
Gooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Coeur d'Alene Idaho
Country: United States
Posts: 13,960
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
That is true with touchdowns and any other player as well. As long as everyone has the same rules it will balance out.



I just don't have a problem with those guys. They are almost all too unpredictable to pick up anyway.
Willis Mcgahee was notorious for being a touchdown vulture for Ray Rice until they finally left the Ravens. His entire fantasy value were those touchdowns and he put up hardly any yards. It was annoying because his fantasy stats sucked but he was valued simply because he had the luxury of being the guy who was gifted those runs at the goal line.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...down%20vulture

It is a common bane of fantasy football thus it has it's own term. It was/is a clear flaw with the scoring system in fantasy football and why I always liked to lessen the impact of vultures with a customized scoring system that rewarded the good backs more.

Gooch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-27-2012, 01:02 PM
  #94
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
 
Ogrezilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 32,484
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
Willis Mcgahee was notorious for being a touchdown vulture for Ray Rice until they finally left the Ravens. His entire fantasy value were those touchdowns and he put up hardly any yards. It was annoying because his fantasy stats sucked but he was valued simply because he had the luxury of being the guy who was gifted those runs at the goal line.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...down%20vulture

It is a common bane of fantasy football thus it has it's own term. It was/is a clear flaw with the scoring system in fantasy football and why I always liked to lessen the impact of vultures with a customized scoring system that rewarded the good backs more.
I know all about it. I just don't see it as a huge problem. Its frustrating when its your guy but its hilarious when its the other team's guy. One of my favorite game stats was Bettis finishing a game with -2 yards and 2 touchdowns.

really, I get your point. I just don't think its as big a deal as you do.

Ogrezilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2012, 10:56 AM
  #95
Gooch
Registered User
 
Gooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Coeur d'Alene Idaho
Country: United States
Posts: 13,960
vCash: 500
The other fantasy league has it's draft tonight as a reminder

Gooch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2012, 01:57 PM
  #96
Karnage420
Registered User
 
Karnage420's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 787
vCash: 500
need two more for yahoo!

not drafting until we have 12 people?

Karnage420 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2012, 02:01 PM
  #97
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
 
Ogrezilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 32,484
vCash: 500
sorry two football leagues is enough for me

Ogrezilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2012, 02:09 PM
  #98
Gooch
Registered User
 
Gooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Coeur d'Alene Idaho
Country: United States
Posts: 13,960
vCash: 500
Just create two auto draft teams that you can hand off to new owners after the fact rather than changing the draft date/time.

Gooch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2012, 08:05 PM
  #99
Karnage420
Registered User
 
Karnage420's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 787
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
Just create two auto draft teams that you can hand off to new owners after the fact rather than changing the draft date/time.
nah we have plenty of time to draft.

time to ask your homies if they are interested. only need 2 more.

Karnage420 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2012, 07:19 PM
  #100
Penguins23
Le Magnifique
 
Penguins23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Moncton,NewBrunswick
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,603
vCash: 500
For the record I agree with Gooch about TDs being overated in FF and my hockey pools have always used a system in which goals is only 1 point like an assist. A goal doesn't give you 2 points in hockey for the Art Ross race....

__________________
.
Penguins23 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:43 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.