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Old
08-25-2012, 04:26 PM
  #26
BVicious
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I don't have a link or 'credible' evidence to prove this, but my nephew is friends with Eberle, and he just bought a house in Cranston, cuz he's a Calgary kid. If I were a betting man, Ebs will sign in Calgary at one point in his career.

Just say'n.

Anyway, I don't know why everyone thinks the flames won't make the playoffs. I think we are at least going to finish top 5 in the conference.

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08-25-2012, 04:29 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
I am aware of that but look at the kings last year the cap was 64.3 million and their 4 biggest cap hits in total was 22.072 million or 34% with a cap of 70 million the big four would need a combined caphit of 24 million or 4 caphits of 6 million each (what Hall got) in other words their is no problem resigning the core.
Bit different than LA, and although I understand your point here, have to take a look at what they're spending their money on vs Edmonton.

Edmonton: Finesse Scorer, Finesse Scorer, Finesse Scorer & Clutch Worker Scorer
LA: Leader + Two way scorer (Richards), Finesse Scorer (Carter), Big body set-up man and scorer (Kopitar) & Top 10 Dmen in the League (Doughty).

So, while let's say that Edmonton gives 6 million for each of their four studs combining up to 24 million on a cap of 70 million, they're using up about 34% of their salary on guys who mostly all play the same role. Meaning they now have 66% of their salary to find all the rest of the puzzle pieces. In LA at the end of the day, with that core of 4 you will have a successful team; in Edmonton you will have to surround them with the proper pieces to go for it all.

I honestly think that Edmonton should try and move one of the 4 to get themselves a Dman, a big time Dman. Or they should have drafted Murray with the first overall.

Eberle + Hall + RNH & Murray + Schultz would be more than enough that in two years time could really be a solid team.

Don't get me wrong with my next statement here, while I wish Calgary had so much young talent in the pipeline, I think HF fanboys and most analysts are giving Edmonton too much credit. Yes, they drafted 4 really good players who could all potentially be perennial 70-90 point players (I think Eberle might have topped out this year, I don't see him as a guy who can do 70-80 every year) in the future... I don't see this makeup becoming a powerhouse in the NHL like Pitts or even Chicago.

While everyone points to those two franchises as the "take a look what a full rebuild does!" You have to really see what they got during their rebuilds.
Edmonton doesn't have a Crosby, Malkin or Staal type player in any respect, nor do they have the more balanced: Toews, Keith, Seabrook, Byfuglien (hope I spelled that right) or a Ladd (They have a lot of Kanes) make up.
I have a sneaking suspicion that Edmonton could easily be compared to a team like Tampa in the near future. A ton of scoring, where one year they're a great team, the next year they have a GAA of over 3.2. But that's just me, and I've accepted I'm probably going to get flamed in a bit here.

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08-25-2012, 04:49 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by BVicious View Post
I don't have a link or 'credible' evidence to prove this, but my nephew is friends with Eberle, and he just bought a house in Cranston, cuz he's a Calgary kid. If I were a betting man, Ebs will sign in Calgary at one point in his career.

Just say'n.

Anyway, I don't know why everyone thinks the flames won't make the playoffs. I think we are at least going to finish top 5 in the conference.
Probably when he's 35 and we'll give him a NMC

And I think we've all been burned by high expectations for too long now, i too am setting the bar low this year.

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08-25-2012, 05:09 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by BVicious View Post
I don't have a link or 'credible' evidence to prove this, but my nephew is friends with Eberle, and he just bought a house in Cranston, cuz he's a Calgary kid. If I were a betting man, Ebs will sign in Calgary at one point in his career.

Just say'n.

Anyway, I don't know why everyone thinks the flames won't make the playoffs. I think we are at least going to finish top 5 in the conference.
The Flames secret rebuild strategy: Let Edmonton develop them, we'll win a championship with them

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08-25-2012, 05:11 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Miokid View Post
Bit different than LA, and although I understand your point here, have to take a look at what they're spending their money on vs Edmonton.

Edmonton: Finesse Scorer, Finesse Scorer, Finesse Scorer & Clutch Worker Scorer
LA: Leader + Two way scorer (Richards), Finesse Scorer (Carter), Big body set-up man and scorer (Kopitar) & Top 10 Dmen in the League (Doughty).

So, while let's say that Edmonton gives 6 million for each of their four studs combining up to 24 million on a cap of 70 million, they're using up about 34% of their salary on guys who mostly all play the same role. Meaning they now have 66% of their salary to find all the rest of the puzzle pieces. In LA at the end of the day, with that core of 4 you will have a successful team; in Edmonton you will have to surround them with the proper pieces to go for it all.

I honestly think that Edmonton should try and move one of the 4 to get themselves a Dman, a big time Dman. Or they should have drafted Murray with the first overall.

Eberle + Hall + RNH & Murray + Schultz would be more than enough that in two years time could really be a solid team.

Don't get me wrong with my next statement here, while I wish Calgary had so much young talent in the pipeline, I think HF fanboys and most analysts are giving Edmonton too much credit. Yes, they drafted 4 really good players who could all potentially be perennial 70-90 point players (I think Eberle might have topped out this year, I don't see him as a guy who can do 70-80 every year) in the future... I don't see this makeup becoming a powerhouse in the NHL like Pitts or even Chicago.

While everyone points to those two franchises as the "take a look what a full rebuild does!" You have to really see what they got during their rebuilds.
Edmonton doesn't have a Crosby, Malkin or Staal type player in any respect, nor do they have the more balanced: Toews, Keith, Seabrook, Byfuglien (hope I spelled that right) or a Ladd (They have a lot of Kanes) make up.
I have a sneaking suspicion that Edmonton could easily be compared to a team like Tampa in the near future. A ton of scoring, where one year they're a great team, the next year they have a GAA of over 3.2. But that's just me, and I've accepted I'm probably going to get flamed in a bit here.
I agree its different but I only used Richards, Carter, Kopitar, Penner in my calculation if you use Doughty instead of Penner they spent 24.822 million or 38.6% of the cap on them if the big 4 sign for an average of 6 mil per year that is 24 million or around 33-34% of the cap in a few years time (if not less) they may not have players taking huge home town discounts like Quick and Brown but if they avoid vast overpayments on players like Penner and Gagne (felt he was done before last year) than it will equal out the only way the oilers get in cap trouble is if they spend 40+% on their big 4.

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08-25-2012, 05:27 PM
  #31
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I think the Flames will be better, but not by much. I see the Flames finishing around 6-11 with the Oilers around 8-13.

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08-25-2012, 06:54 PM
  #32
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As a second Oilers fan coming in peace I will ask this, is there any conceivable way you guys alter your path and go rebuild route? Also, would you guys get behind it? I ask this from the perspective of an armchair GM who sees the perfect storm, a stellar upcoming draft class and a middling team with two aging stars nearing the end of their contracts. The thing is, at least your team has enough grit and character to make the games watchable if you do sell off Kipper and Iggy. As an Oil fan, the 09-10 season was flat out painful watching Nilsson, POS and the like just coast and avoid contact.

What could Iggy fetch? Kipper? I'm thinking each would net a 1st and very good prospect, in a draft that may be comparable to 2003. On one hand I want it to happen to watch Feaster eat his words, on the other I want to see legit battles of Alberta as well as western road trips be referred to as death valley again.

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08-25-2012, 07:00 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
As a second Oilers fan coming in peace I will ask this, is there any conceivable way you guys alter your path and go rebuild route? Also, would you guys get behind it? I ask this from the perspective of an armchair GM who sees the perfect storm, a stellar upcoming draft class and a middling team with two aging stars nearing the end of their contracts. The thing is, at least your team has enough grit and character to make the games watchable if you do sell off Kipper and Iggy. As an Oil fan, the 09-10 season was flat out painful watching Nilsson, POS and the like just coast and avoid contact.

What could Iggy fetch? Kipper? I'm thinking each would net a 1st and very good prospect, in a draft that may be comparable to 2003. On one hand I want it to happen to watch Feaster eat his words, on the other I want to see legit battles of Alberta as well as western road trips be referred to as death valley again.
The chances of a rebuild is slim in my mind since the ownership does not want that but i could possibly see a sell off of the stars but it would be hockey trades so I see a "retool" but not flat out rebuild.

As for Iggy it pains me to say this but i think we may have a situation where we will see the ownership seeking playoffs and he loses another year at getting the cup he deserves

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08-25-2012, 07:02 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
As a second Oilers fan coming in peace I will ask this, is there any conceivable way you guys alter your path and go rebuild route? Also, would you guys get behind it? I ask this from the perspective of an armchair GM who sees the perfect storm, a stellar upcoming draft class and a middling team with two aging stars nearing the end of their contracts. The thing is, at least your team has enough grit and character to make the games watchable if you do sell off Kipper and Iggy. As an Oil fan, the 09-10 season was flat out painful watching Nilsson, POS and the like just coast and avoid contact.

What could Iggy fetch? Kipper? I'm thinking each would net a 1st and very good prospect, in a draft that may be comparable to 2003. On one hand I want it to happen to watch Feaster eat his words, on the other I want to see legit battles of Alberta as well as western road trips be referred to as death valley again.

I'd only be in favor of a rebuild if the team is doing really bad at the beginning of the season and we get ridiculous returns on Kipper and Iggy.

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08-25-2012, 07:09 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
As a second Oilers fan coming in peace I will ask this, is there any conceivable way you guys alter your path and go rebuild route? Also, would you guys get behind it? I ask this from the perspective of an armchair GM who sees the perfect storm, a stellar upcoming draft class and a middling team with two aging stars nearing the end of their contracts. The thing is, at least your team has enough grit and character to make the games watchable if you do sell off Kipper and Iggy. As an Oil fan, the 09-10 season was flat out painful watching Nilsson, POS and the like just coast and avoid contact.

What could Iggy fetch? Kipper? I'm thinking each would net a 1st and very good prospect, in a draft that may be comparable to 2003. On one hand I want it to happen to watch Feaster eat his words, on the other I want to see legit battles of Alberta as well as western road trips be referred to as death valley again.
It depends on the type of rebuild for how I would feel about it and if the owners would allow it, if it was a Oilers style sell off every thing and be at the bottom for a few years very few would get behind it and the owners would never allow it, but if we were to just sell off a few pieces ( for example Kipper and Iginla) and get good return on those few while still have a decent team (still having Cammy, Tanguay, Gio, Wideman, Jbo, etc) it would be easier to sell to fans as the team could still push for a playoff spot but also be rebuilding. That is the only way the owners would consider a different rebuild type than now.

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08-25-2012, 07:30 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
As a second Oilers fan coming in peace I will ask this, is there any conceivable way you guys alter your path and go rebuild route? Also, would you guys get behind it? I ask this from the perspective of an armchair GM who sees the perfect storm, a stellar upcoming draft class and a middling team with two aging stars nearing the end of their contracts. The thing is, at least your team has enough grit and character to make the games watchable if you do sell off Kipper and Iggy. As an Oil fan, the 09-10 season was flat out painful watching Nilsson, POS and the like just coast and avoid contact.

What could Iggy fetch? Kipper? I'm thinking each would net a 1st and very good prospect, in a draft that may be comparable to 2003. On one hand I want it to happen to watch Feaster eat his words, on the other I want to see legit battles of Alberta as well as western road trips be referred to as death valley again.
I wouldn't get behind an Oilers style rebuild. I wouldn't want to (1) promote those who built a failing team, such as Lowe and MacTavish, (2) Pack it in, call it quites and hope that the league handi-cap delivers a good pick, and/or (3) expect winning efforts from Hall, Eberle, Gagne, Hemsky etc. all of sudden after being brought up in a culture of losing.

If I were too rebuild I would: (1) Fire those who built a failing team, (2) Trade my core players for pieces that would help me compete now, and (3) Spend to the cap and expect to win games. Fire coaches and trade players if they don't want to win.

Something along those lines. I prefer a Flames/Senators re-tool rather than an Oilers rebuild.


Last edited by MarkGio: 08-25-2012 at 09:43 PM.
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Old
08-26-2012, 02:47 PM
  #37
Guido Sarducci
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I think things will play out pretty close to last year. I see the Flames anywhere from 7 to 10 and likely closer to 10. The Oilers in their usual 13 to 15 spot likely closer to 13.

But don't worry RNH3, I think the Oilers will still pick first. TambeLowenni seems to be getting better at his lottery skills.
I hope you guys pick first for the next 10 years.

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08-26-2012, 08:58 PM
  #38
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I don't think the Oilers have made enough additions to make a significant improvement. Schultz and Yakupov are the only significant players added unless I missed something. But maybe their coach will compensate for it.

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