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RDS: Flyers/Habs talking about Subban (Mod Warning #441)

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08-26-2012, 11:31 PM
  #101
palindrom
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Are you kidding? Price is one of the best young goalies is the NHL, and you're willing to trade him, so he can be replaced by Cedrick Desjardins. Who is 26, and has just two games of NHL experience.
Exactly! it will be a downgrade for next season, if there is a next season. but i dont expect to make the playoff anyway.

I think summer 2013 we will be able to find a good goalie on the market. Many are Scheduled to become UFA.

Whatever downgrade our new goalie would be over a 6 500 000$ Price (dont forget that the $ saving can be invested elsewhere). I think having Couturier on the long term will be more than a compensation.

Just look at the past NHL history of team who lost their prized elite goalie and replaced him with a cheap UFA: Phoenix and Florida. Everyone was predicting Bryzgalov would leave Phoenix in ruins with a cheap Mike Smith and Vokoun was the only reason Florida was not too attrocious. Result, phoenix had their best season of their history and Florida made the playoff for the first time in a decade. This is the blueprint i wish for Montreal.


Last edited by palindrom: 08-26-2012 at 11:41 PM.
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08-26-2012, 11:41 PM
  #102
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Exactly! it will be a downgrade for next season, if there is a next season. but i dont expect to make the playoff anyway.

I think summer 2013 we will be able to find a good goalie on the market. Many are Scheduled to become UFA.

Whatever downgrade our new goalie would be over a 6 500 000$ Price (dont forget that the $ saving can be invested elsewhere). I think having Couturier on the long term will be more than a compensation.
The top 5 goalies currently set to go to free agency are:

Backstrom
Lehtonen
Thomas
Howard
M. Smith

Backstrom is too old. Thomas is too old and taking a year off, who knows how he will play when he gets back. Lehtonen and Howard will almost certainly be locked up by Dallas and Detroit respectively. Mike Smith is too much of a wild card. Especially with the system Phoenix plays, I doubt he'd be able to replicate his success in Montreal.

The only circumstance that I could think of trade Price would be if we drafted a stud goalie, and he had proven he's ready to step up and take the starter's job.

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08-26-2012, 11:49 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by That View Post
The top 5 goalies currently set to go to free agency are:

Backstrom
Lehtonen
Thomas
Howard
M. Smith

Backstrom is too old. Thomas is too old and taking a year off, who knows how he will play when he gets back. Lehtonen and Howard will almost certainly be locked up by Dallas and Detroit respectively. Mike Smith is too much of a wild card. Especially with the system Phoenix plays, I doubt he'd be able to replicate his success in Montreal.

The only circumstance that I could think of trade Price would be if we drafted a stud goalie, and he had proven he's ready to step up and take the starter's job.
I could see Theodore as an option, there is also other young goalie that are pushing for a NHL role. And often we see a goalie coming from nowhere and become a solid NHLer. Who is the next Thomas ? the next waived goalie who will become a Bryzgalov? The next Mike Smith ? The next Kiprusoff traded for a 2nd round ? Only teams without a goalie can be opportunist enough to get them

Well, it would be fun to revisit this thread once Couturier, Subban and Price reach their Prime.

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08-26-2012, 11:50 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
Exactly! it will be a downgrade for next season, if there is a next season. but i dont expect to make the playoff anyway.

I think summer 2013 we will be able to find a good goalie on the market. Many are Scheduled to become UFA.

Whatever downgrade our new goalie would be over a 6 500 000$ Price (dont forget that the $ saving can be invested elsewhere). I think having Couturier on the long term will be more than a compensation.

Just look at the past NHL history of team who lost their prized elite goalie and replaced him with a cheap UFA: Phoenix and Florida. Everyone was predicting Bryzgalov would leave Phoenix in ruins with a cheap Mike Smith and Vokoun was the only reason Florida was not too attrocious. Result, phoenix had their best season of their history and Florida made the playoff for the first time in a decade. This is the blueprint i wish for Montreal.
It would be incredibly stupid of Montreal to trade Price. Behind a good team, he'll be a top 5 goalie in the NHL.

Montreal would never do it anyway.

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08-26-2012, 11:54 PM
  #105
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I would do the OP's deal in a heartbeat if I was Montreal. Not so much if Phili.

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08-27-2012, 12:00 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
I could see Theodore as an option, there is also other young goalie that are pushing for a NHL role. And often we see a goalie coming from nowhere and become a solid NHLer. Who is the next Thomas ? the next waived goalie who will become a Bryzgalov? The next Mike Smith ? The next Kiprusoff traded for a 2nd round ? Only teams without a goalie can be opportunist enough to get them

Well, it would be fun to revisit this thread once Couturier, Subban and Price reach their Prime.
Trading a franchise player, who you have no immediate replacement for is insane. Especially if your going to rely on getting lucky on waivers and trades to fill the hole


To answer to OP, I would have definitely considered it before we draft Galchenyuk. Now though, a potential #1 centre is not as needed as it was. So losing Subban and gaining Couturier actually creates a bigger hole than it fills. However a future centre lineup of Galchenyuk, Couturier, Eller/Plekanec/Desharnais would be incredible.


Last edited by That: 08-27-2012 at 12:08 AM.
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08-27-2012, 12:03 AM
  #107
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More like Subban+ for Couturier. Couturier is a much more proven asset than Subban is and has a higher ceiling too.
Exactly; Subban is a nice piece to have, but doesn't rise up to the level of Couturier in terms of value and value/monetary cost in the next few years.

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08-27-2012, 12:08 AM
  #108
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It would be incredibly stupid of Montreal to trade Price. Behind a good team, he'll be a top 5 goalie in the NHL.

Montreal would never do it anyway.
Here is some funny quote from the past:

- "Peter Budaj looks like he can be a No. 1 goalie for years to come. "
- "Without Budaj, Colorado would have had the curtain close on its playoff chances in February. "
- "Where would the Avalanche be without Budaj? without Budaj there’s no way they are still thinking about the playoffs."

Hey guy! We have this Budaj! and when he is in the net Carboneau say on l'antichambre: " without Budak we lose 8-2 tonight"

People doesnt seem to get that nowadays goalie performance run a lot closer than 15 years ago.

Just look at the spread between elite goalie and average one ten years ago and last season..

Last season - http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...centageLeaders
15 years ago - http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...centageLeaders

15 years ago, the elite goalie had .920-.930% the average one? .906%

Last season? the elite goalie still had around .920-.930%, the average one ? .916%

In shorts the spread between goalie skill have never been as close as the past few season.
Thats why an elite goalie like Luongo doesnt hold a lot of value, when you can find cheap UFA goalie like Smith, Theodore, Giguere, Vokoun, Nabokov who will give excellent performance for the $ they make.

Thats why we should not overate the value of a Price at 6 500 000$ and in my opinion a couturier will have a greater positive impact on a team.

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08-27-2012, 12:10 AM
  #109
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Exactly; Subban is a nice piece to have, but doesn't rise up to the level of Couturier in terms of value and value/monetary cost in the next few years.
lol, he thought the thread was about malcom, not PK. Bad quote

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08-27-2012, 12:14 AM
  #110
letowskie
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lol, he thought the thread was about malcom, not PK. Bad quote
Ah, I see

Anyways, That's still the case though, I meant what I said about those two....

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08-27-2012, 12:16 AM
  #111
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Ah, I see

Anyways, That's still the case though, I meant what I said about those two....
They're about equal in my mind and subban has proven more IMO but Couturier is showing signs at a younger age. it all balanced out.

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08-27-2012, 12:17 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
Here is some funny quote from the past:

- "Peter Budaj looks like he can be a No. 1 goalie for years to come. "
- "Without Budaj, Colorado would have had the curtain close on its playoff chances in February. "
- "Where would the Avalanche be without Budaj? without Budaj there’s no way they are still thinking about the playoffs."

Hey guy! We have this Budaj! and when he is in the net Carboneau say on l'antichambre: " without Budak we lose 8-2 tonight"

People doesnt seem to get that nowadays goalie performance run a lot closer than 15 years ago.

Just look at the spread between elite goalie and average one ten years ago and last season..

Last season - http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...centageLeaders
15 years ago - http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...centageLeaders

15 years ago, the elite goalie had .920-.930% the average one? .906%

Last season? the elite goalie still had around .920-.930%, the average one ? .916%

In shorts the spread between goalie skill have never been as close as the past few season.
Thats why an elite goalie like Luongo doesnt hold a lot of value, when you can find cheap UFA goalie like Smith, Theodore, Giguere, Vokoun, Nabokov who will give excellent performance for the $ they make.
Right. Ask a Kings fan who was the most important player on their team last year. 9 out of 10 of them are going to say Quick, despite the fact that they have a franchise center and d-man (arguably depending on your definition of a franchise player).

Ask Rangers' fans what they think of Henrik Lundqvist. I'm sure there's only a few players in all of the NHL they'd trade him for.

No, Price isn't as good as them (at the moment, that could surely change but who knows). But when teams have franchise goalies, they don't want to trade them away.

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08-27-2012, 12:19 AM
  #113
letowskie
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They're about equal in my mind and subban has proven more IMO but Couturier is showing signs at a younger age. it all balanced out.
Good point, but you didn't figure into the fact that Subban will cost vastly more over the next couple of contracts. Having Courturier is a huge advantage in cap space.

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08-27-2012, 12:23 AM
  #114
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Good point, but you didn't figure into the fact that Subban will cost vastly more over the next couple of contracts. Having Courturier is a huge advantage in cap space.
Yes, but subban is further along his progression than couturier is as well. Subban is currently the better player. It's no disrespect to Couturier, Subban is older and has more time in the league.

At a certain point, galchenyuk would be on his ELC but he's not more appealing than Couturier if he's behind in progression as well. Their values are equal but their impacts right now are not. By the time Couturier becomes a legit top 6 player his ELC will run out too. it happens.

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08-27-2012, 12:32 AM
  #115
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Lol @someone with a Reimer Av chirping another teams goaltending
priceless

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08-27-2012, 12:38 AM
  #116
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Question for Flyers fans...which one between Couturier and Schenn (Brayden) has better value for you guys ?
Couts.
Very smart and confident on the ice.
Skilled defensively and offensively with the highest point production in his draft year.
Amazing on the PK.
So much potential.

Schenn is very fun to watch and extremely skilled, but a lot different than Couts.
As everyone already compares, he is a lot like Mike Richards, or at least seeming to be so far.
Not afraid to fight, goes for the big hits, extremely nice shot. I also think he can dangle around defense better than Richards can. He has a lot of potential it seems. Can't wait to see him regularly on a line with Giroux after some more experience.

But yeah, I would lean towards Couturier. He seems to be the full package and a great all around player.

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08-27-2012, 06:41 AM
  #117
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He have all right to say no and i understand his decision.

Then let say i upgrade my offer.

Price + White (or Geoffrion) for Couturier.

Or just tell me, how much more you need?
Has the town you live in been putting additives in the drinking water ?
Price will not be traded, and who the **** is this Desjardins you keep talking about ?
You mean Cederic ?

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08-27-2012, 07:22 AM
  #118
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that thread was supose to be on Pk Subban vs Couturier...

why are we talking about price for couts this is extremely ridiculous, Price >>>>>> Couts

And the flyers can't get Price without giving Bryz

I think I lose my time to explain at few ''people'' how it work.

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08-27-2012, 07:23 AM
  #119
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we wouldnt trade Couturier for Weber, we arent trading him for Subban

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08-27-2012, 07:24 AM
  #120
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Just because he is a leafs/Reimer fan does not mean he is wrong. We see it all the time in the NHL. A good system makes an average goalie look like a star.
Agreed...but when Phillt actually played D and Bryz was player of the month in March...still no one gave him credit.

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08-27-2012, 07:32 AM
  #121
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The + must be Giroux. Where is my 10' pole? PK is not a Flyer. Keep him we do not want him. Terrible post there op.

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08-27-2012, 07:36 AM
  #122
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No trade.

Courturier's potential is a number 1 two way ppg center. ...Not many of those out their.

No need in trading that potential for a Good PMD d man.


BTW. Subban is the player i most want on the flyers in the whole nhl but asking for couturier is incredibly painful
Wow I take Weber all day long and not look back.

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08-27-2012, 08:03 AM
  #123
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Straight up it's not a bad trade. No way Philly would be adding. They love Couturier. They gave up a ton to get him.

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08-27-2012, 08:23 AM
  #124
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we wouldnt trade Couturier for Weber, we arent trading him for Subban
Wasn't the rumor that the Preds wanted Couturier + Schenn and + for Weber?

Personally a 1 for 1 swap of Couturier for Weber I honestly think Holmgren would have pulled the trigger

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08-27-2012, 09:45 AM
  #125
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I really like Couturiers game, but he has quite a bit to prove offensively. Granted, he's VERY young and is behind a pretty deep top 6 on the depth chart.

If he tops out as a ~45 point two-way forward, Subban will obviously carry quite a bit more value as a ~#2 D. But if Couturier can handle the offensive side of the game at the NHL level, and become a ~70+ point two-way centre, then he could be extremely valuable, and worth more than Subban.

Anyways, just saying, it's very difficult to make a "fair" trade when you don't know how the two players are going to turn out. Couturier had a very good rookie season, but is far from a proven top 6 centre let alone a #1 centre.

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