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Off-season Armchair GM Thread Part IX

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Old
08-27-2012, 01:43 AM
  #351
Hatrick Marleau
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You all are crazy. Douglas "Crankshaft" Murray is the best ever to play this game.

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08-27-2012, 01:44 AM
  #352
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What does this topic have to do with Offseason Speculation anyway??? lol

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08-27-2012, 01:58 AM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
So you are saying orr didnt dominate his peers? My god are you clue less. He had the goal scoring record for 30+ years, he still has the assist record, he still has the points record. He still has the plus minus record. He still has the points record.
Sorry but no he didn't dominate the way Gretz did. Sorry you disagree but I don't really care. I know there's this love affair with the greats of yester year but the reality is that times have changed. BTW his goal scoring record did not stand for 30+ years... it lasted about 15 years from the first time he set it in '69 until Coffey broke it. So it might be you who needs that clue... Coffey also scored one less point in his best season than Orr did in his best. Based on purely offensive stats Coffey matches up to Orr pretty well. Based on his per game point totals during his prime he could have had 9, 100 point seasons as a defensman if it weren't for a couple cut short by injury.

Just to clear this up since so many of you can't seem to get it... Yes I think Orr is insanely great. One of the top 3 or 4 best players in the history of the game. The all time team has him and Lidstrom as the starting pair. Yes Orr changed the way people played D. But basically we're talking about a forward who moved back to D so it kinda seems like a no brainer that he would play it differently. I would concede that he was probably the best offensive defensman ever, but I think coffey was close as was Bourque, if that makes you feel better but for me Lidstrom was better all around. Still I think they played different styles and to me Lidstrom was more like Gretz in that his best weapon was his brain. Although Orr was a great playmaker as well, it was his superior skating ability is what I believe opened him up to be such a great play maker.


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08-27-2012, 01:59 AM
  #354
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Originally Posted by Hatrick Marleau View Post
What does this topic have to do with Offseason Speculation anyway??? lol
Who knows.. I don't even know how we got on this topic... Obviously it's far past the point of diminishing returns.

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08-27-2012, 02:36 AM
  #355
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Sorry but no he didn't dominate the way Gretz did. Sorry you disagree but I don't really care. I know there's this love affair with the greats of yester year but the reality is that times have changed. BTW his goal scoring record did not stand for 30+ years... it lasted about 15 years from the first time he set it in '69 until Coffey broke it. So it might be you who needs that clue... Coffey also scored one less point in his best season than Orr did in his best. Based on purely offensive stats Coffey matches up to Orr pretty well. Based on his per game point totals during his prime he could have had 9, 100 point seasons as a defensman if it weren't for a couple cut short by injury.

Just to clear this up since so many of you can't seem to get it... Yes I think Orr is insanely great. One of the top 3 or 4 best players in the history of the game. The all time team has him and Lidstrom as the starting pair. Yes Orr changed the way people played D. But basically we're talking about a forward who moved back to D so it kinda seems like a no brainer that he would play it differently. I would concede that he was probably the best offensive defensman ever, but I think coffey was close as was Bourque, if that makes you feel better but for me Lidstrom was better all around. Still I think they played different styles and to me Lidstrom was more like Gretz in that his best weapon was his brain. Although Orr was a great playmaker as well, it was his superior skating ability is what I believe opened him up to be such a great play maker.
How is Lidstrom even better than Bourque?

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08-27-2012, 03:00 AM
  #356
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Originally Posted by NWShark View Post
Sorry but no he didn't dominate the way Gretz did. Sorry you disagree but I don't really care. I know there's this love affair with the greats of yester year but the reality is that times have changed. BTW his goal scoring record did not stand for 30+ years... it lasted about 15 years from the first time he set it in '69 until Coffey broke it. So it might be you who needs that clue... Coffey also scored one less point in his best season than Orr did in his best. Based on purely offensive stats Coffey matches up to Orr pretty well. Based on his per game point totals during his prime he could have had 9, 100 point seasons as a defensman if it weren't for a couple cut short by injury.

Just to clear this up since so many of you can't seem to get it... Yes I think Orr is insanely great. One of the top 3 or 4 best players in the history of the game. The all time team has him and Lidstrom as the starting pair. Yes Orr changed the way people played D. But basically we're talking about a forward who moved back to D so it kinda seems like a no brainer that he would play it differently. I would concede that he was probably the best offensive defensman ever, but I think coffey was close as was Bourque, if that makes you feel better but for me Lidstrom was better all around. Still I think they played different styles and to me Lidstrom was more like Gretz in that his best weapon was his brain. Although Orr was a great playmaker as well, it was his superior skating ability is what I believe opened him up to be such a great play maker.
Orr also scored 40+ points better then coffey ever did. And about 60 points better then lidstrom ever scored.

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08-27-2012, 11:00 AM
  #357
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Please stay on-topic.

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Old
08-27-2012, 12:50 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post
Please stay on-topic.
*sigh*

It isn't like this thread is very busy...

On-topic, if the Sharks had an interest in Samsonov, why not just sign him? Why risk losing him with a camp tryout...there is little reason to think his skills have decline very much.

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08-27-2012, 12:59 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
*sigh*

It isn't like this thread is very busy...

On-topic, if the Sharks had an interest in Samsonov, why not just sign him? Why risk losing him with a camp tryout...there is little reason to think his skills have decline very much.
The Mod deleted a couple posts, I think that's what he is referring to. If not though, we can probably just end the conversation anyway, i think it's run its course.

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08-27-2012, 01:50 PM
  #360
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Finally.

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08-27-2012, 01:57 PM
  #361
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Finally.
Frankly talking about Bobby Orr is less depressing to talk about than our current roster and season outlook at least... If there is a season heh.

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08-27-2012, 02:09 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
Orr also scored 40+ points better then coffey ever did. And about 60 points better then lidstrom ever scored.
Dude, you need to look stuff up before posting... Coffey's best season was ONE point less than Orrs best... not 40+, not even 4+...

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08-27-2012, 02:09 PM
  #363
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Frankly talking about Bobby Orr is less depressing to talk about than our current roster and season outlook at least... If there is a season heh.
Yeah, but it's frankly tiring. No one is convincing anyone of anything.

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08-27-2012, 02:11 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Yeah, but it's frankly tiring. No one is convincing anyone of anything.
Especially if people are just making up their own facts... what is this Faux News...?

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08-27-2012, 02:15 PM
  #365
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Yeah, but it's frankly tiring. No one is convincing anyone of anything.
yah, seriously.

Maybe a short season will help the Sharks... but I doubt it. unless the coaching changes (impossible to predict) make a huge improvement I think this team really is no more than above average. As I said at the beginning of the off-season, if you can't do anything significant then now is probably the best time to sell off what assets you have to stave off a total rebuild. Too late now though.

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08-27-2012, 02:33 PM
  #366
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
*sigh*

It isn't like this thread is very busy...

On-topic, if the Sharks had an interest in Samsonov, why not just sign him? Why risk losing him with a camp tryout...there is little reason to think his skills have decline very much.
Irrelevant. GDTs and similar "live" threads get more leeway for OT discussion because they are meant to be tied to an ongoing event that won't always have immediate discussion points at every given moment. But for something like this, it is expected that talk stay focused on the intended subject. If you want to talk about something different, there are areas of both this board and the site in general to cater to a wide array of other subjects.

Guerzy is right. this thread needs to stay on topic. If it can't keep itself afloat with armchair GM discussion, then it'll wither and die and fall off the 1st page to be replaced by more current and interesting talk, as is the natural course of things on HF. We can't and shouldn't be propping threads up with tangential discussion just because there's not enough topical content to keep it going on its own.

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Old
08-27-2012, 07:35 PM
  #367
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Originally Posted by NWShark View Post
Dude, you need to look stuff up before posting... Coffey's best season was ONE point less than Orrs best... not 40+, not even 4+...
Not if you look at adjusted points. Using adjusted points, Coffey's best season, IRRC, was 105. By the same adjustment, Orr was at 125?

Coffey also played with much better teammates. He did have a couple of top-ten finishes in the league point-wise, but does he even come close without Gretzky? Orr wins without Esposito...

And to keep this on topic, why did Samsonov take the year off? It doesn't even look like he played in the KHL...

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08-27-2012, 07:52 PM
  #368
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
And to keep this on topic, why did Samsonov take the year off? It doesn't even look like he played in the KHL...
my guess is he didn't need the money, wanted to rest his body after years of punishment, and wanted to come back when he was mentally & physically rested... basically a sabbatical

either that or he went on a year-long coke binge

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08-27-2012, 07:57 PM
  #369
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my guess is he didn't need the money, wanted to rest his body after years of punishment, and wanted to come back when he was mentally & physically rested... basically a sabbatical

either that or he went on a year-long coke binge
Sign-him up.

If he's truly rested, he could have a Selanne-like system.

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08-27-2012, 10:08 PM
  #370
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my guess is he didn't need the money, wanted to rest his body after years of punishment, and wanted to come back when he was mentally & physically rested... basically a sabbatical

either that or he went on a year-long coke binge
We'll never know until he signs and it becomes a news story. I suspect your are correct on the former not the later.

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08-28-2012, 09:32 AM
  #371
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So when do we trade for Rick Nash again? Or Shane Doan for that matter?

(yes i'm bored. and yes I worry about this damn lockout!)

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08-28-2012, 11:08 AM
  #372
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so... basically the fix for the bottom 6 is: "We expect Wingels to become a 25-goal scoring machine" and sign a rejuvenated Samsonov hoping he become's Jumbo's go-to guy?

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08-28-2012, 02:50 PM
  #373
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so... basically the fix for the bottom 6 is: "We expect Wingels to become a 25-goal scoring machine" and sign a rejuvenated Samsonov hoping he become's Jumbo's go-to guy?
Something like that yes. And, Handzus is recovered from an injury and should be better.


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08-28-2012, 03:15 PM
  #374
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so... basically the fix for the bottom 6 is: "We expect Wingels to become a 25-goal scoring machine" and sign a rejuvenated Samsonov hoping he become's Jumbo's go-to guy?
i thought our fix was to get NASA to develop rockets small enough to fit on the back of handzus's skates, so that he would go around the ice at normal speed, and become an effective 3rd liner.

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08-28-2012, 04:35 PM
  #375
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New topic of discussion- Demers/Gunnarsson swap

I am torn on this. Leaning towards yes because we need a good, young LHD. With Vlasic/Burns locked in place, Gunn/Boyle & Stuart/Braun. Gunn's toi was almost 21 min and he had decent numbers(76gm-4g-15a-20pms, -9)on an offensively/goalie challenged team. Paired with Boyle his numbers improve abit(6g-25a-+8 ). I like the idea of Stuey with Braun.Justin gets a vet to mentor him and allows him to push the play knowing Stuart is back there. When Boyle retires, Braun takes over the spot. Flame away

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