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Old
08-26-2012, 03:04 PM
  #26
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
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Forget the stupidity of trading for a player and signing him to a multi-year only to deal him away before he even plays a game - anybody who thinks the Pens should even entertain offers for Vokoun is just completely ignorant of what happened in the playoffs last year.

He's there to lighten Fleury's regular season load and provide quality veteran insurance in case he falters again in the playoffs. Kulemin would be a nice wing target to take a flier on, but Mike Bossy wouldn't help us win a series if we get goaltending like we did vs. Philly.

The answer's a resounding "NO". Vokoun has an absolutely essential role to play here.

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08-26-2012, 04:05 PM
  #27
vecens24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Forget the stupidity of trading for a player and signing him to a multi-year only to deal him away before he even plays a game - anybody who thinks the Pens should even entertain offers for Vokoun is just completely ignorant of what happened in the playoffs last year.

He's there to lighten Fleury's regular season load and provide quality veteran insurance in case he falters again in the playoffs. Kulemin would be a nice wing target to take a flier on, but Mike Bossy wouldn't help us win a series if we get goaltending like we did vs. Philly.

The answer's a resounding "NO". Vokoun has an absolutely essential role to play here.
I guess the main thing we disagree on here is that I think Reimer is pretty similar in skill to Vokoun at this point.

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08-26-2012, 04:58 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
I guess the main thing we disagree on here is that I think Reimer is pretty similar in skill to Vokoun at this point.
Not sure there's anything to support that at this point.

But...even ignoring the huge statistical advantage Vokoun had last year in every major category, the veteran stabilization simply isn't there with Reimer. What we'd get in Reimer is a young, inexperienced goalie who's trying to rebound from a bad season.

That's the very last thing we need if Fleury falters.

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Old
08-26-2012, 05:16 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
I guess the main thing we disagree on here is that I think Reimer is pretty similar in skill to Vokoun at this point.
Is this a joke?

Seriously though

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08-26-2012, 05:43 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Zbynek View Post
Is this a joke?

Seriously though
I mean goaltender numbers here don't tell the whole story. Vokoun was playing in front of a fairly strong defense and a defensive system with Hunter. The majority of Reimer's games came in front of a run and shoot team with Wilson. I think Reimer is actually extremely talented and has a good shot to continue to mature, while Vokoun is certainly sliding down.

I'm not going to lie, Vokoun would very clearly be the more consistent of the two (and he is still slightly better still), but I think it would be worth the upgrade at wing and the pick to take the Reimer and Vokoun swap.

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08-26-2012, 05:52 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
I mean goaltender numbers here don't tell the whole story. Vokoun was playing in front of a fairly strong defense and a defensive system with Hunter. The majority of Reimer's games came in front of a run and shoot team with Wilson. I think Reimer is actually extremely talented and has a good shot to continue to mature, while Vokoun is certainly sliding down.

I'm not going to lie, Vokoun would very clearly be the more consistent of the two (and he is still slightly better still), but I think it would be worth the upgrade at wing and the pick to take the Reimer and Vokoun swap.
I don't understand why would sacrifice this crucial advantage - without which we won't succeed with no matter who our forwards are - all for two young players we hope will rebound from terrible seasons.

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08-26-2012, 06:48 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
I mean goaltender numbers here don't tell the whole story. Vokoun was playing in front of a fairly strong defense and a defensive system with Hunter. The majority of Reimer's games came in front of a run and shoot team with Wilson. I think Reimer is actually extremely talented and has a good shot to continue to mature, while Vokoun is certainly sliding down.

I'm not going to lie, Vokoun would very clearly be the more consistent of the two (and he is still slightly better still), but I think it would be worth the upgrade at wing and the pick to take the Reimer and Vokoun swap.
And I guess where we disagree is that a 7 goal scorer is "worth the upgrade at wing" to lose a former all-star goaltender.

Btw, don't get me wrong. This is also a terrible trade for Toronto. But arguably worse for Pittsburgh.

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Old
08-26-2012, 07:08 PM
  #33
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No General Manager is silly enough to call and ask for a newly acquired player before that player has even put on a jersey. GM's have better things to do than waste each other's time.

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Old
08-26-2012, 08:06 PM
  #34
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Can't be done, won't be done. As someone stated earlier, for realzies, there's no reason the leafs should make this trade. Not equal in terms of value and doesn't make sense at all.

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08-26-2012, 09:44 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Zbynek View Post
And I guess where we disagree is that a 7 goal scorer is "worth the upgrade at wing" to lose a former all-star goaltender.

Btw, don't get me wrong. This is also a terrible trade for Toronto. But arguably worse for Pittsburgh.
I mean honestly I was assuming MacArthur would be the guy. He's a 20 goal/50 point guy at this point in his career. If it was Kulemin I'd agree, but I actually see MacArthur as a guy who is a consistent upgrade.

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08-26-2012, 11:17 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
I mean honestly I was assuming MacArthur would be the guy. He's a 20 goal/50 point guy at this point in his career. If it was Kulemin I'd agree, but I actually see MacArthur as a guy who is a consistent upgrade.
Fair enough. Although given their styles of play and skillsets, Kulemin would arguably be a better fit on the Pens lineup. But even then it wouldn't make sense for Toronto to sell low on this guy at this time.

I think Toronto and Pittsburgh could potentially be trade partners, but it wouldn't involve a goalie.

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08-27-2012, 09:25 AM
  #37
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Old
08-27-2012, 09:57 AM
  #38
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Why would the Pens trade their starting goal tender? I would be more interested in the Pens trading their overpayed "backup" that has never lived up to his drafted #1 overall billing by only being an average goaltender at best.

Occasionally showing flashes of brilliance, but still making rookie mistakes and never really working on the fundamentals (angles, rebound control, puck handling) of the craft, this goal tender has been awarded with start after start without every having to earn his spot.

Out of the last 11 seasons (looking back into junior), this "backup" goaltender has only posted a SV% over .900 in the playoffs twice. In those 2 years >.900 SV%, the Pens went to the SCF. He still retains his undeserved reputation as a "big game goalie" though his playoff SV% is less than his career SV%.

And now you want us to give you the best goaltender the Penguins franchise has ever had (sorry Barasso) in a trade once again only leaving us with the option described above?

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08-27-2012, 10:17 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
Why would the Pens trade their starting goal tender? I would be more interested in the Pens trading their overpayed "backup" that has never lived up to his drafted #1 overall billing by only being an average goaltender at best.

Occasionally showing flashes of brilliance, but still making rookie mistakes and never really working on the fundamentals (angles, rebound control, puck handling) of the craft, this goal tender has been awarded with start after start without every having to earn his spot.

Out of the last 11 seasons (looking back into junior), this "backup" goaltender has only posted a SV% over .900 in the playoffs twice. In those 2 years >.900 SV%, the Pens went to the SCF. He still retains his undeserved reputation as a "big game goalie" though his playoff SV% is less than his career SV%.

And now you want us to give you the best goaltender the Penguins franchise has ever had (sorry Barasso) in a trade once again only leaving us with the option described above?
And to think he probably hasn't even put on your jersey yet. Talk about pressure!

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Old
08-27-2012, 11:55 AM
  #40
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OMG that is horrible.

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08-27-2012, 12:06 PM
  #41
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It's not as bad as people make it sound. The only bad part is vokoun was available not long ago for much less(acquire and sign). Seems pointless to do this but meh. Reimer is overrated anyway but I still don't see why leafs add a pick. They give the better balance of players(both in NHL and relatively young) for Vokoun(older) and Tangradi(not looking great). It's a desperation move from leafs even without the 2nd rounder. It's not terrible but I don't see leafs doing that now.

Pretty sure they'd go vet backup before they do this.

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Old
08-27-2012, 12:18 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
I mean honestly I was assuming MacArthur would be the guy. He's a 20 goal/50 point guy at this point in his career. If it was Kulemin I'd agree, but I actually see MacArthur as a guy who is a consistent upgrade.
To be honest, I'd rather the Pens just try and acquire that secondary scoring on the wings without having to deal Vokoun (and create a hole in a different area in the process).

It's kind like robbing Peter to pay Paul (or however that saying goes). The Pens improve their winger depth, but now they're back to square one with a question mark behind Fleury.

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08-27-2012, 12:40 PM
  #43
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why would the leafs give that much up for vokoun and tangradi. trade doesnt make sense, plus the value is pretty terrible
You underestimate the value of Eric Tangradi through the eyes of Brian Burke.

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08-27-2012, 12:43 PM
  #44
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You underestimate the value of Eric Tangradi through the eyes of Brian Burke.
He's truculent and American.

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