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Will the "Zucc" be back? (3/25: Agrees to terms)

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08-27-2012, 03:20 AM
  #51
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What I'd be interested to hear is why Zucc thinks he was treated "unfairly" by nyr, in detail.

Without a detailed explanation it's kind of like saying "you're an a-hole" and that's it.

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08-27-2012, 03:26 AM
  #52
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What I'd be interested to hear is why Zucc thinks he was treated "unfairly" by nyr, in detail.

Without a detailed explanation it's kind of like saying "you're an a-hole" and that's it.
My guess would be that he didn't exactly have the AHL in mind when he inked that contract. As a former MVP, I'm sure he had the bright lights of Manhattan - not Hartford - in mind.

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08-27-2012, 03:35 AM
  #53
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It's nothing unusual for a young defensemen relatively Erixon's age--not to be strong enough. I expect that will come with time. MDZ still has a big struggle with that but MDZ is a lot more aggressive on the puck than Erixon is. MDZ is bumping and banging guys all the time. Erixon was laying off. And it must be remembered that being on the bottom pairing means facing the grinders more who tend to be bigger and more physical than the scorers. Bickel worked out a lot better in that regard.

I wasn't super impressed with Erixon honestly last year.

Kershaw's memory in some things is a little bit shaky. Woywitka for instance hardly saw the ice the second half of the season. Avery went to the AHL even before MZA did and only got called up because of injuries. His spot on the team never was more than tentative and Sean is a better skater than Zucc and much more physical--a better fit on a bottom line. MZA also fought through a few injuries and was not always available--not sure if he was available when Avery was called up or not.

In any case--Zucc didn't get a fair shot and it's because he's European--blah, blah, blah. If someone came on here to say Eminger, Woywitka, Avery, Wolski, EC didn't get a fair shot because they were North Americans he'd get laughed off the page. All these guys did more sitting than they did playing. The end result is what matters in any case--1st in the East not how much ice time or points that MZA got.

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08-27-2012, 04:04 AM
  #54
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What I'd be interested to hear is why Zucc thinks he was treated "unfairly" by nyr, in detail.

Without a detailed explanation it's kind of like saying "you're an a-hole" and that's it.
To my knowledge Zuccarello never expressed that view. Of course he believed himself to be good enough to crack the lineup and probably didn't agree with being told to play in The AHL for most of the season, but I never read a statement from him (or even his good for nothing agent) that suggested he thinks he was treated unfairly.

He could give The NHL another try, but I really doubt he'll ever be back with The Rangers. As for Erxion, I would have prefered to keep him around, but not if it means we don't get Nash.

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08-27-2012, 06:36 AM
  #55
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honestly i didn't see these HUGE DEFENSIVE HOLES that zuc apparently left open. his size the first year was without a doubt an issue. he was not physically conditioned enough to play in the bottom 6. during his second season that physicality came into play and he was one of the hardest workers on the team. making the most out of his small size. hell, the kid looked like a tank. with his final stint with the team (before the injury) he looked like he was potentially going to be a top 6 forward (before we got nash--but even now until gaborik got back), but with the injury and he was screwed.

when dubi was brought in over him in the playoffs the reasoning was obvious: devils had a strong forecheck. dubi was one of our best puck possession guys and our powerplay was already excelling. (what was it, like 40%?)

i love the player. would love to see him back. love his attitude on the ice. love that dorky mouthpiece, but let's be honest... the kid ****ed himself with his post-season interview, as well as an interview earlier in the year(or last year) where he said he thought he deserved to be in the lineup, and i am confident that he will not be back on this team(and doubt he would want to be).

BUT... he definitely has the skill to play in this league full time, likely in a top 6 role somewhere, and i really hope his time here hasn't soured his opinion on the league. he'd make a great addition elsewhere.

honestly from a personal standpoint it always seemed like tortorella had something against zuc... i mean the kid clearly could've helped our power play from day 1, but torts didn't want to make a spot for him to do that, and we can't know for sure either way.

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08-27-2012, 08:14 AM
  #56
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My flame suit is on....

Here we go...

I trust the zuke more on the D then I trust Hags....

Hags..talk about being *** awefull on the defence and not getting called on it..

There..I said it..you read it...FLAME on....

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08-27-2012, 08:29 AM
  #57
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I would definitely separate statements like "he was not treated right" from "he had every chance to prove himself".

I am not sure if anyone have mentioned this, but Zuccarello had;
Ryan Callahan,
Marian Gaborik,
Brandon Prust,

to fight it out with for ice time on the RW. Tortorella loves Callahan and Prust, and Gaborik is a proven sniper.

So, while I am definitely not slow to believe that players aren't always given a "fair" shot, its definitely hard to argue that Torts made a bad decision to not play the three mentioned above less.

With that said, I definitely don't agree with the ones in this thread stating that he got a chance but didn't take it. I think he was given a pretty darn worthless chance. He played mostly with Derek Stepan the rookie and Wojtek Wolski, and was a 5'7 Norwegian playmaking midget who was forced to be the most defensive responsible player on his line. MZA is also a player who greatly would have benefitted from playing with size on his line, and he never got much of that etc. Never really top 2 line icetime.

So I think its very odd to claim that he even got a good shot at proving himself. He certainly did not. But, I am not sure if it was "unfair" in anyway to not give him a perfect environment, that's life at times kind of...

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08-27-2012, 09:20 AM
  #58
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I look at MZA as a 3rd line PP specialist.

I think he would fit well with Boyle and Hagelin and could make the Rangers 3rd line pretty dangerous.

Playing 3rd line minutes and PP could be a decent combination.

The defensive issues he may have would be covered by 2 of our better defensive players in Hags and Boyle.

His playmaking skills may help Boyle get to and stay in the mid to high teens in goals.

If there were designs in getting Nash, retaining MZA would have been my preference over signing Pyatt or Halpern for that matter.

Even the one way deal is not an issue. Signing a 2-way contracts does not effect the waiver issue. Just the actual salary so a 1 way deal for MZA is not an issue for me.

Defence can be taught, what skills he brought to the team cannot and we don't have enough skill on the bottom 6

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08-27-2012, 09:21 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I would definitely separate statements like "he was not treated right" from "he had every chance to prove himself".

I am not sure if anyone have mentioned this, but Zuccarello had;
Ryan Callahan,
Marian Gaborik,
Brandon Prust,

to fight it out with for ice time on the RW. Tortorella loves Callahan and Prust, and Gaborik is a proven sniper.

So, while I am definitely not slow to believe that players aren't always given a "fair" shot, its definitely hard to argue that Torts made a bad decision to not play the three mentioned above less.

With that said, I definitely don't agree with the ones in this thread stating that he got a chance but didn't take it. I think he was given a pretty darn worthless chance. He played mostly with Derek Stepan the rookie and Wojtek Wolski, and was a 5'7 Norwegian playmaking midget who was forced to be the most defensive responsible player on his line. MZA is also a player who greatly would have benefitted from playing with size on his line, and he never got much of that etc. Never really top 2 line icetime.

So I think its very odd to claim that he even got a good shot at proving himself. He certainly did not. But, I am not sure if it was "unfair" in anyway to not give him a perfect environment, that's life at times kind of...
Agreed completely on this.

As for now,he has to realy prove him self in The KHL Then maybe his getting a second chance somewhere in The NHL, if he want to.

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08-27-2012, 09:39 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I look at MZA as a 3rd line PP specialist.

I think he would fit well with Boyle and Hagelin and could make the Rangers 3rd line pretty dangerous.

Playing 3rd line minutes and PP could be a decent combination.

The defensive issues he may have would be covered by 2 of our better defensive players in Hags and Boyle.

His playmaking skills may help Boyle get to and stay in the mid to high teens in goals.

If there were designs in getting Nash, retaining MZA would have been my preference over signing Pyatt or Halpern for that matter.

Even the one way deal is not an issue. Signing a 2-way contracts does not effect the waiver issue. Just the actual salary so a 1 way deal for MZA is not an issue for me.

Defence can be taught, what skills he brought to the team cannot and we don't have enough skill on the bottom 6
What you really wonder is how he would do next to a Malkin, E Staal, Ryan Getzlaf, Mikko Koivu, Thornton, or someone like that. A big strong center, who spends alot of time in the attacking zone.

Zucc is very good at getting pts on the board. He wasn't very effective at burying the puck for us in the NHL, but he is also pretty good. But his passing is of course spectacular at times.

Who knows how many pts he could score next to a Malkin or someone like that if he developed great chemistry with that center. I definitely don't think its a reach to speculate that he could get 80 pts even in a perfect year.

At the same time, whilst mentioning those type of numbers, we should also acknowledge his weakness. Because he is not great in many areas. He doesn't cover a ton of ice, and he is really weak when he is forced to go into physical battles. GM's would of course have thrown themselves after him if that wasn't the case. But I definitely think he has potential to really hit it off to with the right center...

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08-27-2012, 09:50 AM
  #61
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it's just tort's coaching style. it's not just zuc... kreider was benched in the 3rd period while boyle was playing in a game we were down 2-0 in the playoffs (idr exact game-- maybe the caps one with brad's career highlight goal) and i have a feeling kreider is going to be one of john's favorites.

no doubt kreider has more offensive skill than boyle, but torts likes that "safe is first" mentality. sometimes it just doesn't work, and i think zucc is one of those cases, but idk... when we're struggling big time on the PP in the regular season and scoring minimally in general you'd think he would've tried out zucc a little sooner-- maybe it could've helped our playoff run (not that the PP was bad in the playoffs) part of tort's that we have to deal with is his stubborn attitude.

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08-27-2012, 09:54 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
What you really wonder is how he would do next to a Malkin, E Staal, Ryan Getzlaf, Mikko Koivu, Thornton, or someone like that. A big strong center, who spends alot of time in the attacking zone.

Zucc is very good at getting pts on the board. He wasn't very effective at burying the puck for us in the NHL, but he is also pretty good. But his passing is of course spectacular at times.

Who knows how many pts he could score next to a Malkin or someone like that if he developed great chemistry with that center. I definitely don't think its a reach to speculate that he could get 80 pts even in a perfect year.

At the same time, whilst mentioning those type of numbers, we should also acknowledge his weakness. Because he is not great in many areas. He doesn't cover a ton of ice, and he is really weak when he is forced to go into physical battles. GM's would of course have thrown themselves after him if that wasn't the case. But I definitely think he has potential to really hit it off to with the right center...
Wich was exactely what he had in Modo playing with Niklas Sundström http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=740
and Per Åge Skroder
http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=140

OT: By the way,what do you think Ola and dubkov21, could PÅS have made it in NA if he was a little younger?

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08-27-2012, 10:27 AM
  #63
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MZA got his chances, and each time injury is what held him back from actually solidifying himself a spot on the roster more than his actual abilities. That's the way the cookie crumbles sometimes and I don't see "losing" him (don't we still have his rights if he chooses to come back to NA?) as leaving a huge dent in our depth. Either way, someone said MZA most likely will have a future in the NHL, he just doesn't bring much to make this Rangers squad significantly better while having to make room specifically for him.

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08-27-2012, 11:50 AM
  #64
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MZA got his chances, and each time injury is what held him back from actually solidifying himself a spot on the roster more than his actual abilities. That's the way the cookie crumbles sometimes and I don't see "losing" him (don't we still have his rights if he chooses to come back to NA?) as leaving a huge dent in our depth. Either way, someone said MZA most likely will have a future in the NHL, he just doesn't bring much to make this Rangers squad significantly better while having to make room specifically for him.
Sorry, but I cant use the injury as a crutch.

Fact is, if he was good enough to be a consistent contributor, the Rangers would've seen to it that he was back this season.

Do you think if McDonagh or Stepan got injured, that'd be it for them in Ranger blue?

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08-27-2012, 12:18 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
What you really wonder is how he would do next to a Malkin, E Staal, Ryan Getzlaf, Mikko Koivu, Thornton, or someone like that. A big strong center, who spends alot of time in the attacking zone.
Zucc is very good at getting pts on the board. He wasn't very effective at burying the puck for us in the NHL, but he is also pretty good. But his passing is of course spectacular at times.

Who knows how many pts he could score next to a Malkin or someone like that if he developed great chemistry with that center. I definitely don't think its a reach to speculate that he could get 80 pts even in a perfect year.

At the same time, whilst mentioning those type of numbers, we should also acknowledge his weakness. Because he is not great in many areas. He doesn't cover a ton of ice, and he is really weak when he is forced to go into physical battles. GM's would of course have thrown themselves after him if that wasn't the case. But I definitely think he has potential to really hit it off to with the right center...
Not sure he fits with the play making centers in the league. I would think that Zuccs would benefit more with a shooting center such as a Stamkos or a Jokinen.

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08-27-2012, 12:19 PM
  #66
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Sorry, but I cant use the injury as a crutch.

Fact is, if he was good enough to be a consistent contributor, the Rangers would've seen to it that he was back this season.

Do you think if McDonagh or Stepan got injured, that'd be it for them in Ranger blue?
you think the rangers didn't want him back for this season? especially with gaborik's injury? they qualified him for a reason. zucc wanted guaranteed nhl time. we dont work like that so he took off. i just hope he comes back to the league when his year is up. he was a fun guy to watch

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08-27-2012, 12:32 PM
  #67
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I look at MZA as a 3rd line PP specialist.

I think he would fit well with Boyle and Hagelin and could make the Rangers 3rd line pretty dangerous.

Playing 3rd line minutes and PP could be a decent combination.

The defensive issues he may have would be covered by 2 of our better defensive players in Hags and Boyle.

His playmaking skills may help Boyle get to and stay in the mid to high teens in goals.

If there were designs in getting Nash, retaining MZA would have been my preference over signing Pyatt or Halpern for that matter.

Even the one way deal is not an issue. Signing a 2-way contracts does not effect the waiver issue. Just the actual salary so a 1 way deal for MZA is not an issue for me.

Defence can be taught, what skills he brought to the team cannot and we don't have enough skill on the bottom 6
This is the exact role I would've loved to see him in.

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08-27-2012, 01:01 PM
  #68
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you think the rangers didn't want him back for this season? especially with gaborik's injury? they qualified him for a reason. zucc wanted guaranteed nhl time. we dont work like that so he took off. i just hope he comes back to the league when his year is up. he was a fun guy to watch
"We dont work like that" - what does that mean?

Let me finish it for you - "We dont work like that for players that dont deserve guaranteed NHL time"

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08-27-2012, 01:03 PM
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I look at MZA as a 3rd line PP specialist.

I think he would fit well with Boyle and Hagelin and could make the Rangers 3rd line pretty dangerous.

Playing 3rd line minutes and PP could be a decent combination.

The defensive issues he may have would be covered by 2 of our better defensive players in Hags and Boyle.

His playmaking skills may help Boyle get to and stay in the mid to high teens in goals.

If there were designs in getting Nash, retaining MZA would have been my preference over signing Pyatt or Halpern for that matter.

Even the one way deal is not an issue. Signing a 2-way contracts does not effect the waiver issue. Just the actual salary so a 1 way deal for MZA is not an issue for me.

Defence can be taught, what skills he brought to the team cannot and we don't have enough skill on the bottom 6
In theory, that may have worked. But it comes down to what Torts wants his 3rd line to be. I think its pretty clear he relishes in putting out his 3rd line as a true checking line. Boyle got big minutes against the oppositions top forwards and did an admirable job there. Hagelin would fit in well with his speed and hockey sense. Zuccarello, unfortunately, would be useless there - as he usually was at even strength.

The PP should be better with Nash. Even if its not, I still wouldnt want Zuccarello wasting a roster spot just so he could step on the ice for a couple of PP's a game.

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08-27-2012, 01:40 PM
  #70
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To my knowledge Zuccarello never expressed that view. Of course he believed himself to be good enough to crack the lineup and probably didn't agree with being told to play in The AHL for most of the season, but I never read a statement from him (or even his good for nothing agent) that suggested he thinks he was treated unfairly.

He could give The NHL another try, but I really doubt he'll ever be back with The Rangers. As for Erxion, I would have prefered to keep him around, but not if it means we don't get Nash.
In that case the OP is misleading.

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08-27-2012, 01:51 PM
  #71
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"We dont work like that" - what does that mean?

Let me finish it for you - "We dont work like that for players that dont deserve guaranteed NHL time"
putting words in my mouth . i was basically just saying he wanted to be guaranteed ice time.

he didn't want to spend another year in the AHL. knew he was good enough for this league be it here or on another team. NY wouldn't let him out of his contract (albeit last year i believe is when he was rumored to have requested it?). with no guarantee he didn't want to risk being sent down again. when we're the worst pp in the league and he doesn't get called up when his offense is obviously stronger than half the team, he probably loses hope...

it's w/e though anything about zucc is opinion now really. i liked him. he just made a dumb move talking to the media. idk if he was lost in translation or intentionally screwed himself out of a spot, but it's w/e. hopefully we see him at some point in the future either here or on another team.

it's 100% that he can't come back next season though, correct? has to wait at least a year is up for his KHL contract to end?(and has option to stay there for another year if both parties agree or something??)

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08-27-2012, 01:59 PM
  #72
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I'm surprised we didn't trade him to someone.

Since he's going to the KHL this season, can we toll his contract next season?

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08-27-2012, 02:06 PM
  #73
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To my knowledge Zuccarello never expressed that view. Of course he believed himself to be good enough to crack the lineup and probably didn't agree with being told to play in The AHL for most of the season, but I never read a statement from him (or even his good for nothing agent) that suggested he thinks he was treated unfairly.

He could give The NHL another try, but I really doubt he'll ever be back with The Rangers. As for Erxion, I would have prefered to keep him around, but not if it means we don't get Nash.
IMO I think Zucc did earn a spot with the team near the end of the season when he was called up. He was producing and getting good power play time, but then he got injured. After that, it's not really surprising Tortorella didn't want to throw him back out there after sitting out two rounds of playoffs

He had some bad luck with the timing of his injuries

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08-27-2012, 02:14 PM
  #74
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putting words in my mouth . i was basically just saying he wanted to be guaranteed ice time.

he didn't want to spend another year in the AHL. knew he was good enough for this league be it here or on another team. NY wouldn't let him out of his contract (albeit last year i believe is when he was rumored to have requested it?). with no guarantee he didn't want to risk being sent down again. when we're the worst pp in the league and he doesn't get called up when his offense is obviously stronger than half the team, he probably loses hope...

it's w/e though anything about zucc is opinion now really. i liked him. he just made a dumb move talking to the media. idk if he was lost in translation or intentionally screwed himself out of a spot, but it's w/e. hopefully we see him at some point in the future either here or on another team.

it's 100% that he can't come back next season though, correct? has to wait at least a year is up for his KHL contract to end?(and has option to stay there for another year if both parties agree or something??)
Im not so sure you'll ever see him as a full-time NHL player because, personally, I just dont feel hes good enough to play at this level. Best case, I can see him hooking on with a bad team; a bottom feeder that specializes in taking on inferior players. Thats why I compared him to PA Parenteau earlier. Both are players that have some offensive skills (that would need a great center to be fully capitalized upon), and little to no attributes when it comes to any other part of the game.

Not only was Zuccarello not good enough, but he apparently wasnt smart enough either - yapping to the media and needing guaranteed NHL time to make a deal. If he thought some offensive skills made him good enough to be an NHL regular, well, he got a rude awakening pretty quickly. Where he got this sense of entitlement is beyond me. It also makes me wonder how so many people root for him and/or think he got a raw deal.

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08-27-2012, 02:22 PM
  #75
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IMO I think Zucc did earn a spot with the team near the end of the season when he was called up. He was producing and getting good power play time, but then he got injured. After that, it's not really surprising Tortorella didn't want to throw him back out there after sitting out two rounds of playoffs

He had some bad luck with the timing of his injuries
I agree with this.

But its more of a result of the Rangers having zero depth at forward towards the end of the year, as opposed to Zuccarello being good.

He likely would've been eaten alive in the playoffs.

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