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RDS: Flyers/Habs talking about Subban (Mod Warning #441)

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Old
08-27-2012, 10:54 AM
  #126
daveleaf
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I would do that trade but wouldn't a Duschene be a nicer fit? Great wheels....remind me a little of Cournveyer(sp?)

Just an outsider looking in but he does seem to attract too much negative attention.

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08-27-2012, 12:22 PM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thelos View Post
we wouldnt trade Couturier for Weber, we arent trading him for Subban
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Wasn't the rumor that the Preds wanted Couturier + Schenn and + for Weber?

Personally a 1 for 1 swap of Couturier for Weber I honestly think Holmgren would have pulled the trigger
Yes, it was. People love parroting lies though. "We thought Couts was better than Weber, that's how good he is!!" Not the facts, but it has a nice ring to it now that Weber stayed in Nashville. If Weber ended up in Philly it would be a different story.

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Old
08-27-2012, 02:26 PM
  #128
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While I would trade one of Couts or Schenn if it meant getting us a legit 1st pairing defenseman, I don't think that player is pk Subban. Call me crazy, but I'm just not sold on his ability to be bonafide #1 defenseman. I'm not convince of his maturity and leadership abilities. When I think #1 defenseman, I think Chris Pronger, Shea weber, Zdeno Chara, Niklas Lidstrom, Duncan Keith, Drew Doughty etc. I don't see Subban being mentioned among those players. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but I see legit #1 shutdown center potential in couturier. A Mike Richards with more offensive upside. I don't want to deal him unless we're getting a guy who can be a legit #1 defenseman. Seeing as that's probably unlikely, I'd rather just hang on to Couturier.

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Old
08-27-2012, 02:48 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
Let me tell you the story of Bryz. Waiver wire pick-up by PHX, then BECAUSE OF THE SYSTEM, does great. GM PH signs him to 50M+ and gets lucky on his trades of Richards/Carter, so then they didn't need that great of a goalie. Then, the Yotes pick up a back-up from Tampa, and now he is considered great. Then, Philly trades their young, pretty good back-up, so then they can play Leighton for ~20 games.
Just because he was a waiver wire pick-up doesn't mean he is a garbage goalie.

He was put on waivers because Burke (then GM in Anaheim) felt he deserved a shot at making an honest bid for playing time, but because he was 3rd on the depth chart behind a then stellar Giguere and up-and-comer Jonas Hiller. Burke tried to secure a trade but no one was willing to give up an asset for a then unproven goalie.

Burke then decided to place him on waivers because then anyone could grab him for free.

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08-27-2012, 02:53 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by roboninja View Post
Yes, it was. People love parroting lies though. "We thought Couts was better than Weber, that's how good he is!!" Not the facts, but it has a nice ring to it now that Weber stayed in Nashville. If Weber ended up in Philly it would be a different story.
I didnt say Couturier was better than Weber, I just meant that if Holmgren was reluctant to deal him to NSH, he obivously sees him as an integral cog in the flyers machine, and certainly wont trade him for Subban

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08-27-2012, 03:18 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Call me crazy, but I'm just not sold on his ability to be bonafide #1 defenseman. I'm not convince of his maturity and leadership abilities. When I think #1 defenseman, I think Chris Pronger, Shea weber, Zdeno Chara, Niklas Lidstrom, Duncan Keith, Drew Doughty etc.
Typically those kind of #1 defensemen are going to cost you an assload more to obtain than Couturier. I'm sure those guys would want Giroux to start or a combination of major assets.

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Old
08-27-2012, 03:33 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
While I would trade one of Couts or Schenn if it meant getting us a legit 1st pairing defenseman, I don't think that player is pk Subban. Call me crazy, but I'm just not sold on his ability to be bonafide #1 defenseman. I'm not convince of his maturity and leadership abilities. When I think #1 defenseman, I think Chris Pronger, Shea weber, Zdeno Chara, Niklas Lidstrom, Duncan Keith, Drew Doughty etc. I don't see Subban being mentioned among those players. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but I see legit #1 shutdown center potential in couturier. A Mike Richards with more offensive upside. I don't want to deal him unless we're getting a guy who can be a legit #1 defenseman. Seeing as that's probably unlikely, I'd rather just hang on to Couturier.
One may not play again, 1 is retired, one is 35 years old and the other 3 weber, keith and doughty are untouchable. Subban is not as good as them, its ridiculous for anyone to say he is, but realistically there's only 3 long term guys on that list, and you tried with one and it was unsuccessful.

Subban is the 2nd tier.

If you REALLY want a guy like Doughty, then be willing to give couturier++ or just giroux. That's why it's unrealistic.

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Old
08-27-2012, 03:45 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
I wonder how many top 3 goalie in the league there is. In the past year i found 16 goalie being called a top 3 in different thread.

Here is the list of all the goalie being called a "top 3 goalie in the league":

Thomas
Rask
Kiprusoff
Lunqvist
Rinne
Price
Hiller
Eliott
Luongo
Howard
Miller
Ward
Brodeur
Varlamov
Vokoun

I will give to you that Price is one of the 16 Top 3 goalie in the league. even if he never been voted in the Vezina finalist.

You should rather ask why flyers fan would not be content to getting Webber + Eller + Price, a top 3 goalie in the league for Couturier. It should amaze you more than my statement.
The fact that there is a Habs fan who would offer Price, Eller, and Weber for Couturier is stunning and disgusting. Then I realize you are getting rid of English players to get a French player while hoping that a French goalie will somehow come to the NHL and become what Price already is, and that answers a sheep load. Nice to see the great French/English divide still needs to be more important than fielding a quality team.

The fact that there is a Flyers fan that would say "no" to a Price, Eller, and Weber for Couturier deal shows the lack of hockey intelligence on these boards is not limited to francophone Canadiens' fans. To our little Flyers fan, get Price, Eller, and Weber for Couturier, then trade Price for the considerably better package he would get from other teams than the minimal package you paid. Asset management. If someone is dumb enough to give you that package for Couturier, take it to the bank, laughing, and trade it away if you really need to keep Bryzgalov. There are other teams that would give you a btter package than Couturier alone to land Price.

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Old
08-27-2012, 03:59 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
I wonder how many top 3 goalie in the league there is. In the past year i found 16 goalie being called a top 3 in different thread.

Here is the list of all the goalie being called a "top 3 goalie in the league":

Thomas
Rask
Kiprusoff
Lunqvist
Rinne
Price
Hiller
Eliott
Luongo
Howard
Miller
Ward
Brodeur
Varlamov
Vokoun

I will give to you that Price is one of the 16 Top 3 goalie in the league. even if he never been voted in the Vezina finalist.

You should rather ask why flyers fan would not be content to getting Webber + Eller + Price, a top 3 goalie in the league for Couturier. It should amaze you more than my statement.
Your shtick is already old. Give it a rest. You're clearly one of those francophones that thinks Montreal should load up on French players and give away any non-francophones we have, no matter how good they are. Your opinion towards Price is mind-blowingly inaccurate, and borderline stupid. I really hope that when Quebec gets another team, you jump ship.

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Old
08-27-2012, 04:11 PM
  #135
Henrik To Daniel
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subban for couturier and simmonds

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Old
08-27-2012, 04:27 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Henrik To Daniel View Post
subban for couturier and simmonds
I am a Habs fan who loves Subban, but the Flyers would say "no". I would be willing to add to Subban to get Couturier AND Simmonds, though!!!

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Old
08-27-2012, 05:29 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
Let me tell you the story of Bryz. Waiver wire pick-up by PHX, then BECAUSE OF THE SYSTEM, does great. GM PH signs him to 50M+ and gets lucky on his trades of Richards/Carter, so then they didn't need that great of a goalie. Then, the Yotes pick up a back-up from Tampa, and now he is considered great. Then, Philly trades their young, pretty good back-up, so then they can play Leighton for ~20 games.
This is completely true and should be common knowledge at this point. Hope I have, faith I have not.

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08-27-2012, 06:12 PM
  #138
Chacal667
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
While I would trade one of Couts or Schenn if it meant getting us a legit 1st pairing defenseman, I don't think that player is pk Subban. Call me crazy, but I'm just not sold on his ability to be bonafide #1 defenseman. I'm not convince of his maturity and leadership abilities. When I think #1 defenseman, I think Chris Pronger, Shea weber, Zdeno Chara, Niklas Lidstrom, Duncan Keith, Drew Doughty etc. I don't see Subban being mentioned among those players. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but I see legit #1 shutdown center potential in couturier. A Mike Richards with more offensive upside. I don't want to deal him unless we're getting a guy who can be a legit #1 defenseman. Seeing as that's probably unlikely, I'd rather just hang on to Couturier.
U r all right, but do you really think the flyers have a chance to get one of doughty, keith chara etc ?

And just to let u know, Subban is already a #1D ( with the habs ) but he is certainly not as good as those guys.

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Old
08-27-2012, 06:29 PM
  #139
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Just wanted to chime in and say that this is an interesting discussion. Except for palindrom you are clearly out to lunch with your proposals.

I wouldn't do Price for Couturier straight up let alone adding Eller!? and Weber? You also put Thrower on the table?! LOL

Thank goodness your ideas are very much in the minority.

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Old
08-27-2012, 06:43 PM
  #140
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I'm a Flyer and even i'm sick of reading 'we wouldn't trade Couturier for Weber'. It's not even remotely true.

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Old
08-27-2012, 06:53 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
I'm a Flyer and even i'm sick of reading 'we wouldn't trade Couturier for Weber'. It's not even remotely true.
I think it is completely possible that they wouldn't have traded Couturier for Weber (without an extension in place). I also think it is possible that they wouldn't have traded Couturier to return draft picks from RFA compensation.

A signed Weber? Sure.

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08-27-2012, 07:00 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Henrik To Daniel View Post
subban for couturier and simmonds
Too much for subban.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
I think it is completely possible that they wouldn't have traded Couturier for Weber (without an extension in place). I also think it is possible that they wouldn't have traded Couturier to return draft picks from RFA compensation.

A signed Weber? Sure.
I think considering the flyers spoke contract with him they had an idea what he wanted and would've done the deal and signed him immediately afterwards.

My logic for this:

2007/06/18

Nashville Predators traded Kimmo Timonen and Scott Hartnell to the Philadelphia Flyers for a 1st round selection in 2007.

2007/06/18

Signed by the Philadelphia Flyers to a six-year contract.(KT)

2007/06/18

Signed by the Philadelphia Flyers to a six-year contract.(SH)

Same GM. I think Holmgren is prepared.

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08-27-2012, 07:46 PM
  #143
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Just because he is a leafs/Reimer fan does not mean he is wrong. We see it all the time in the NHL. A good system makes an average goalie look like a star.
Case in point: Halak

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08-27-2012, 07:51 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Chacal667 View Post
U r all right, but do you really think the flyers have a chance to get one of doughty, keith chara etc ?

And just to let u know, Subban is already a #1D ( with the habs ) but he is certainly not as good as those guys.
I don't think the argument was that the Flyers are going to put together some package to get a Doughty, just that he doesn't consider Subban in that group of players. Obviously, the Doughtys of the world aren't being moved.

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08-27-2012, 08:22 PM
  #145
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I don't think the argument was that the Flyers are going to put together some package to get a Doughty, just that he doesn't consider Subban in that group of players. Obviously, the Doughtys of the world aren't being moved.
I said he was right on that point but the flyers can't get that type of player

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08-27-2012, 10:39 PM
  #146
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I said he was right on that point but the flyers can't get that type of player
I understand that - but that has nothing to do with what Subban is worth, which was the only point I think he was making.

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08-27-2012, 11:18 PM
  #147
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I understand that - but that has nothing to do with what Subban is worth, which was the only point I think he was making.
I think PK Subban ( he will not be trade cuz the habs need him more than they need Couts ) but that kind of D is more realistic for the flyers

And I think nobody can say with certitude which player will be the best in few years

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08-28-2012, 12:40 AM
  #148
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Wow that's a lot of answers.

My own is I would do it.

Galchenyuk - Couturier - Eller would be a pretty nice 1-2-3 punch for years to come. I would do it, with the idea to trade PLekanek for a young offensive D-Man. The team would be younger, cheaper, and the Flyers would get the piece they need real bad with Pronger-Carle out.

Its a lateral move, it's a win-win trade imo IF Bergevin could get another D-Man using PLekanec's value.

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Old
08-28-2012, 02:19 AM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Chacal667 View Post
U r all right, but do you really think the flyers have a chance to get one of doughty, keith chara etc ?

And just to let u know, Subban is already a #1D ( with the habs ) but he is certainly not as good as those guys.
no i don't believe any respective team would trade guys of that calibre, which is why i said it's unrealistic, and that i'd rather just hold onto couturier.

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08-28-2012, 02:24 AM
  #150
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I think PK Subban ( he will not be trade cuz the habs need him more than they need Couts ) but that kind of D is more realistic for the flyers

And I think nobody can say with certitude which player will be the best in few years
i also understand that. but if it means giving up couturier, then i'd rather just keep him. i don't think it's that difficult to understand. i'm not saying that couturier, or any package we could put together for that matter, would land a guy like the ones i've listed, i'm just saying that i'd rather keep him than trade him for a guy like subban, who in my (subjective) opinion, doesn't make us better enough to warrant giving up couturier.

for example, there are a few guys below that tier that i would consider trading Couts for. Erik Gudbranson, Oliver Ekman-Larsson, Alex Pietrangelo, Cam Fowler to name a few. Guys who, IMO are of a better mold to be #1 defensemen and leaders. Those teams don't want to trade those players, yes i get it. i wouldn't want to either. But that's what it would take to get Couturier.


Last edited by orange is better: 08-28-2012 at 02:31 AM.
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