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Ottawa Senators-Phoenix Coyotes

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Old
08-25-2012, 09:47 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by PHX FireBirds18 View Post
I suppose I did, but I don't think Cowen has the offensive upside of Gormley or the same ability to run a PP. Not that you guys need someone to do that. Don't get me wrong, not bashing the guy. I really wanted the Yotes to draft him his year after watching him as a 16 year old in the memorial cup. I just see Cowen ending up being more like a Mitchell/Gill kind of player and Gormley will have more Suter in his game. Similar players but one has a little bit more puck moving ability.
Gormley doesn't have Suter's physical presence.

Cowen is MUCH more mobile than Gill, and has a much better offensive dimension to his game than Mitchell and Gill

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08-25-2012, 10:08 PM
  #27
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No, I don't expect Gormley will have much of a physical presence at the NHL level. He also doesnt have the quickest feet out there. He's certainly not a Suter calibre skater, but I expect he will be mobile enough to still be extremely effective, anyway. He's just has hockey IQ completely off the charts, wo he will always be in the right position and will always make the correct play.

I can't rally think of a great comparison. Teppo Numminen, maybe? As an absolute upside. Regardless, he's going to he a stud D and I have no doubt about it.

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08-26-2012, 01:51 PM
  #28
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I wouldn't make this trade either, Ottawa already has Karlsson (offensive dynamo), both Cowen & Method (size & tooughness) & Ceci (another offensive threat) coming. They also have first rd picks for the next few yrs to add to their back end but more importantly they have some assets to trade for a decent stop gap top four defenceman & top 6 forward that shouldn't cost that much, giving their youth time to develop. Keep the young blue chip prospects & let them develop & trade for or sign stop gap measures that are not too expensive & won't cost any top ten prospects. If Corey Perry hits free agency next season make a pitch, Ottawa has a ton of salary cap space to entice free agents. There are a few roster players that could be moves instead of prospects too.

I would like to see Murray pursue Byfuglien & Hemsky who would likely not cost a lot in prospects or picks & yet both still have enough left to contribute for a few yrs at a high level. Byfuglien would solidify the defence on the right side & Hemsky would add another scoring threat to Ottawa's forward lines. IMO Zibanejad will either be the future 2nd line centre in Ottawa or 1st line RW.

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08-26-2012, 04:37 PM
  #29
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Thanks but no thanks.

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08-26-2012, 05:52 PM
  #30
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Although i think Zinbanejad will be a very solid player in the NHL, i just dont like the thought of moving Gormley. He is going to be a special player IMO and the fact that the Coyotes were able to grab him using a different club's (Calgary) pick makes it that much sweeter.

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08-27-2012, 12:27 PM
  #31
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I think it makes too much sense for the Coyotes to do it. Yandle and Ekman-Larsson have already establish themselves, and I doubt that Gormley will surpass them and with that much talent, where does he fit, eventually as a bottom defensive pairing? The Coyotes could use another center and Zibanejad fits ideally and with the depth the Coyotes could bring him in slowly at the beginning of the season.

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08-27-2012, 12:37 PM
  #32
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I havent seen Gromley play at all so its hard for me to comment on the trade. But if he is what ppl are saying he is then this trade is fair in terms of filling needs on both ends.

To those who feel PHX has 3#1 dmen I'd ask you to take some caution. They play a super defensive system that made Bryz and Mike Smith look like animals in the net. Bryz is looking like a scrub now and Mike Smith was a scrub prior to playing for PHX so I think they both owe a great deal to the system PHX plays. Therefore I really beleive that Yandle and OEL (who both are not #1 D men RIGHT NOW, but can they be? who knows, I'll beleive it when I see it) benefit from that as well.

Just my $0.02. If ppl beleive Gromley is gonna be a #1 then if I'm PHX I keep him because as of right now noone is doing it.

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08-27-2012, 01:06 PM
  #33
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As good as Gormley may be, I may have a hard time declining this offer if it was on the table.

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08-27-2012, 06:38 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrawlFan View Post
I havent seen Gromley play at all so its hard for me to comment on the trade. But if he is what ppl are saying he is then this trade is fair in terms of filling needs on both ends.

To those who feel PHX has 3#1 dmen I'd ask you to take some caution. They play a super defensive system that made Bryz and Mike Smith look like animals in the net. Bryz is looking like a scrub now and Mike Smith was a scrub prior to playing for PHX so I think they both owe a great deal to the system PHX plays. Therefore I really beleive that Yandle and OEL (who both are not #1 D men RIGHT NOW, but can they be? who knows, I'll beleive it when I see it) benefit from that as well.

Just my $0.02. If ppl beleive Gromley is gonna be a #1 then if I'm PHX I keep him because as of right now noone is doing it.
How is Yandle not a number 1 dman?

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08-27-2012, 07:17 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by BrawlFan View Post
They play a super defensive system...Therefore I really beleive that Yandle and OEL (who both are not #1 D men RIGHT NOW, but can they be? who knows, I'll beleive it when I see it) benefit from that as well.
Don't see why playing in a very defensive system disqualifies Yandle and OEL from being #1/first-pairing d-men. They have elite skating, passing, and vision, and in OEL's case, superb defensive positioning and stickwork. Also Yandle is just two years removed from placing 5th in Norris voting - OEL may very well be a Norris finalist as soon as next year.

I would think the fact that they can put up good numbers in a conservative system would indicate that their point ceiling will be higher in a more aggressive system. That being said, the return of Michalek allows Yandle and OEL to jump in the rush more. Wouldn't be surprised if they combined for 100+ points this season (hoping for as much, anyways).

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Old
08-27-2012, 07:29 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IPreferPi View Post
Don't see why playing in a very defensive system disqualifies Yandle and OEL from being #1/first-pairing d-men. They have elite skating, passing, and vision, and in OEL's case, superb defensive positioning and stickwork. Also Yandle is just two years removed from placing 5th in Norris voting - OEL may very well be a Norris finalist as soon as next year.

I would think the fact that they can put up good numbers in a conservative system would indicate that their point ceiling will be higher in a more aggressive system. That being said, the return of Michalek allows Yandle and OEL to jump in the rush more. Wouldn't be surprised if they combined for 100+ points this season (hoping for as much, anyways).
Agreed.

Yandle and OEL are both #1 d-man by the end of this season. Yandle already is, OEL is probably between the 30-40 mark IMO.

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Old
08-27-2012, 09:28 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Manked View Post
Agreed.

Yandle and OEL are both #1 d-man by the end of this season. Yandle already is, OEL is probably between the 30-40 mark IMO.
Ekman-Larsson is already every bit as good as Yandle

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Old
08-27-2012, 09:29 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Guy View Post
How is Yandle not a number 1 dman?
He plays sheltered minutes against bad competition. He does well in those minutes,... but yeah, they should give him more responsibility.

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08-27-2012, 11:11 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
He plays sheltered minutes against bad competition. He does well in those minutes,... but yeah, they should give him more responsibility.
Any of you stat zealot number worshipers take a look at the year before last with the same criteria?

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08-27-2012, 11:38 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
Any of you stat zealot number worshipers take a look at the year before last with the same criteria?
... who cares? He played sheltered minutes this year both in the regular season and playoffs.

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08-27-2012, 11:46 PM
  #41
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Really intrigued but I'd say no. I think Ottawa's biggest need on the backend going forward (guy with #3 upside) was addressed in this draft with the addition of Cody Ceci.

Gormley's got top-pairing upside for sure, I'm just hesitant to say he'll reach it playing on the same team as OEL and Yandle. Perhaps Phoenix is best served waiting two or three years, and then trading Yandle while his value is highest / just as Gormley's ready to take the step to being a top-pairing guy.

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Old
08-27-2012, 11:56 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
... who cares? He played sheltered minutes this year both in the regular season and playoffs.
Yandle led his team in time on ice per game and even strength time on ice per game. How many sheltered minutes exist in a hockey game, anyway?

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08-28-2012, 12:12 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Yandle led his team in time on ice per game and even strength time on ice per game. How many sheltered minutes exist in a hockey game, anyway?
Depends how you define sheltered. If you define it as playing against bottom-6ers, it's ~20-25 mins per game. If sheltered is playing against the 'bottom-9', it's more like 40-45 mins.

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Old
08-28-2012, 12:14 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by CanadianHockey View Post
Depends how you define sheltered. If you define it as playing against bottom-6ers, it's ~20-25 mins per game. If sheltered is playing against the 'bottom-9', it's more like 40-45 mins.
Haha. Haha haha Haha. Playing in the nhl sounds really easy. Only fifteen minutes a night of tough assignments, huh? Who knew?

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08-28-2012, 12:21 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
Haha. Haha haha Haha. Playing in the nhl sounds really easy. Only fifteen minutes a night of tough assignments, huh? Who knew?
Not Yandle? Right? I would say playing the PP is sheltered.

Also, he played sheltered minutes 5-on-5. Against bottom 6ers 5-on-5.

Still a good defenseman, just would like to see him with more responsibility before claiming he's a top 10 D in the league or something.


edit- hey you changed your post. My post is in response to "Who plays the PK?"




(HF has a hard on for Yandle does it not? Which is weird because he is Karlsson with half the points and not even close to the same quality of competition 5-on-5. Why hate Karlsson and love Yandle?)

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08-28-2012, 12:27 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Haha. Haha haha Haha. Playing in the nhl sounds really easy. Only fifteen minutes a night of tough assignments, huh? Who knew?
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...4+45+46+63+67#

Yandle was 6th on the Yotes in Quality of Competition during the season among Yotes defensemen.


http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...4+45+46+63+67#

Yandle was 7th in the playoffs.



LOL


You can also use the Quality of Competition stat that uses +/- instead of Corsi, and he's STILL 7th in season and playoffs.



No PK time.


SHELTERED

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Old
08-28-2012, 12:37 AM
  #47
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This is the dumbest argument I've ever read.

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08-28-2012, 12:41 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
... who cares? He played sheltered minutes this year both in the regular season and playoffs.
He saw "sheltered minutes" because of the emergence of OEL and the play of Klesla, our best defensive d-men. Yes, Yandle doesn't play shutdown/PK minutes, but that's more about Tippett using comparative advantage and a testament to the strength of our defensive corps (i.e. what coach *wouldn't* try to match up his best offensive d-man against weaker lines when he can afford to - he is after all trying to win the damn game!) rather than a knock on his defensive play.


Last edited by IPreferPi: 08-28-2012 at 12:48 AM.
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Old
08-28-2012, 12:48 AM
  #49
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This is the dumbest argument I've ever read.
??

That's all you have to say?

Fact: Yandle does not play against the opposition's best players. Not even close.

Hard to argue he's a #1 D.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IPreferPi View Post
He saw "sheltered minutes" because of the emergence of OEL and the play of Klesla, our best defensive d-men. Yes, Yandle doesn't play shutdown/PK minutes, but that's more about Tippett using comparative advantage and a testament to the strength of our defensive core rather than a knock on his defensive play.
Sure. I agree. It's just tough to appoint him a top 10-15 D when he's sheltered like that. Even a #1 D.

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Old
08-28-2012, 07:47 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by IPreferPi View Post
As good as Gormley may be, I may have a hard time declining this offer if it was on the table.
I feel the same way about Zibanejad. IMO this is a pretty good proposal that

actually addresses needs from both sides. Gormley could end up being a total

package top pairing D-man.

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