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08-28-2012, 01:50 AM
  #1
The Newfoundlander
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Tor-SJ

To Toronto: Joe Pavelski

To San Jose: Tyler Bozak, Jesse Blacker, Cody Franson,

San Jose gets younger, Toronto gets a player who can play C/RW in the top 6

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08-28-2012, 01:57 AM
  #2
Machinehead
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Well gee, I'm not seeing a whole lot of appeal here for San Jose.

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08-28-2012, 02:05 AM
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Leafs87
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Well gee, I'm not seeing a whole lot of appeal here for San Jose.
Yea unless San Jose wants to trade pavelski for multiple assets. The assets aren't bad but neither equal pavelski. Kind of how they got Thornton.

I would love it as a leafs fan but I realize it's very unlikely to happen

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08-28-2012, 02:05 AM
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There should be good potential for a deal here. I'll give it a shot.

To Toronto: Pavelski
To San Jose: Kulemin, Kadri, 2nd

Toronto gets their potential #1 C and San Jose gets much needed depth/prospects to trade from a position of strength.

**Edited Frattin for a 2nd


Last edited by StringerBell: 08-28-2012 at 02:17 AM.
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08-28-2012, 02:08 AM
  #5
Leafs87
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Originally Posted by LuckyLager View Post
There should be good potential for a deal here. I'll give it a shot.

To Toronto: Pavelski
To San Jose: Kulemin, Kadri, Frattin

Toronto gets their potential #1 C and San Jose gets much needed depth/prospects to trade from a position of strength.

Hefty price for pavelski IMO. Kadri is basically our only top forward prospect and kulemin and Frattin are nice peices, wouldn't be intrested.

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08-28-2012, 02:10 AM
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Pavelski won't be traded if the key piece coming back is Bozak, that much is for sure.

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08-28-2012, 02:11 AM
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Originally Posted by LuckyLager View Post
There should be good potential for a deal here. I'll give it a shot.

To Toronto: Pavelski
To San Jose: Kulemin, Kadri, Frattin

Toronto gets their potential #1 C and San Jose gets much needed depth/prospects to trade from a position of strength.
We're giving up too much imo. I'd give up 1 of those pieces not all 3 though.

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08-28-2012, 02:15 AM
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Originally Posted by weak5holeguy View Post
We're giving up too much imo. I'd give up 1 of those pieces not all 3 though.
Frattin for Pavelski? Okay...

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08-28-2012, 02:18 AM
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Originally Posted by LuckyLager View Post
Frattin for Pavelski? Okay...
Not straight up lol...... Something like Frattin,Franson, Bozak/Colborne for Pavelski

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08-28-2012, 02:20 AM
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Originally Posted by weak5holeguy View Post
Not straight up lol...... Something like Frattin,Franson, Bozak/Colborne for Pavelski
Ahh so the conventional Leafs style proposal, as opposed to a realistic one? Okay...

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08-28-2012, 02:20 AM
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Originally Posted by LuckyLager View Post
Frattin for Pavelski? Okay...
I don't think he meant it in that way. All 3 is a stupid overpayment by the leafs who are building for the future and giving up 3 good players would not make sense even if the value is there. Obviously Frattin isn't getting you pavelski. But pavelski isn't getting you kadri, kulemin and frattin.

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08-28-2012, 02:32 AM
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Ahh so the conventional Leafs style proposal, as opposed to a realistic one? Okay...
I'm sorry, I don't realize how my proposal was unrealistic. Okay.....

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08-28-2012, 02:38 AM
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Originally Posted by weak5holeguy View Post
I'm sorry, I don't realize how my proposal was unrealistic. Okay.....
Your original offer was pretty unrealistic tbh

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08-28-2012, 02:43 AM
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Originally Posted by weak5holeguy View Post
I'm sorry, I don't realize how my proposal was unrealistic. Okay.....
Here on HF Leafs fans got a (well deserved) reputation of offering quantity over quality. Where as 3 5.5C players should equal a 7.5C - 8C.

For Pavelski your trade would need to have a top end prospect or young player to get Pavelski. So from this list you would need to pick 2: Kulemin/Kadri/Frattin/Franson. Throw in a third, while SJ throws in a second, and you might be closer to what SJ would be looking for.

SJ: 2 of Kulemin/Kadri/Frattin/Franson, 3rd Round Pick

Toronto: Pavelski, 2nd Round Pick

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08-28-2012, 02:45 AM
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I don't think he meant it in that way. All 3 is a stupid overpayment by the leafs who are building for the future and giving up 3 good players would not make sense even if the value is there. Obviously Frattin isn't getting you pavelski. But pavelski isn't getting you kadri, kulemin and frattin.
Pavelski is the ideal 1B centerman. He's averaged 25 goals and 60 points over the past 4 seasons as a defense-first guy. He's fast, has a great hockey IQ and the biggest heart on his team. Olympic teammates with Kessel to boot.

He's also coming off a career best 31-30, 61, +18 season with 50 hits, 84 blocked shots and 59% on faceoffs. On any team that doesnt already have 2-3 proven top 6 centers he wouldnt be available.This means he won't come cheap.

San Jose will demand someone who can replace him in the top 6 (Kulemim), a top prospect (Kadri) and likely another little + on top. Leafs fans may see this as an overpayment, but this is one scenario where it might be wise to pony up for the right guy.

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08-28-2012, 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted by weak5holeguy View Post
I'm sorry, I don't realize how my proposal was unrealistic. Okay.....
No worries, hope my responses didn't offend you. If they did then I apologize too

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08-28-2012, 02:50 AM
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Originally Posted by LuckyLager View Post
Pavelski is the ideal 1B centerman. He's averaged 25 goals and 60 points over the past 4 seasons as a defense-first guy. He's fast, has a great hockey IQ and the biggest heart on his team. Olympic teammates with Kessel to boot.

He's also coming off a career best 31-30, 61, +18 season with 50 hits, 84 blocked shots and 59% on faceoffs. On any team that doesnt already have 2-3 proven top 6 centers he wouldnt be available.This means he won't come cheap.

San Jose will demand someone who can replace him in the top 6 (Kulemim), a top prospect (Kadri) and likely another little + on top. Leafs fans may see this as an overpayment, but this is one scenario where it might be wise to pony up for the right guy.
I think your forgetting last year Philly would have traded Richards who is a much better 1b center, probably the best if we are talking true 1b centers and disclode guys like Malkin, for kadri and kulemin. Frattin isn't just a little add in. The leafs view him quite highly and he was groomed pretty nicely and helped the baby leafs get to the ahl Calder cup. All three is just a definite no go, no disrespect to pavelski or sharks fans.

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08-28-2012, 02:51 AM
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This does not get Pavelski.

Also, Blacker is much better than his trade value right now. It would be wiser to hang onto him.

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08-28-2012, 02:59 AM
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I think your forgetting last year Philly would have traded Richards who is a much better 1b center, probably the best if we are talking true 1b centers and disclode guys like Malkin, for kadri and kulemin. Frattin isn't just a little add in. The leafs view him quite highly and he was groomed pretty nicely and helped the baby leafs get to the ahl Calder cup. All three is just a definite no go, no disrespect to pavelski or sharks fans.
This pretty much. Except I don't view Pavelski as a 1B centre, 2A guy, Similar to Grabovski. A little less offensive skill then Grabovski but a better all around player. They would be battling each other for 1C if they were on the same team.

Kulemin,Franson,Colborne, for Pavelski, 3rd.

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08-28-2012, 03:03 AM
  #20
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I think your forgetting last year Philly would have traded Richards who is a much better 1b center, probably the best if we are talking true 1b centers and disclode guys like Malkin, for kadri and kulemin. Frattin isn't just a little add in. The leafs view him quite highly and he was groomed pretty nicely and helped the baby leafs get to the ahl Calder cup. All three is just a definite no go, no disrespect to pavelski or sharks fans.
Richards and Pavelski are really comparable IMO, with Richards' only real advantage being physicality. I also think that Kulemin has lost considerable value since last year.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but Kulemin + Kadri wasn't enough to get Richards. The way I understood it Burke never officially but received an offer, he just counter-proposed a weaker offer than what Philly was looking for (2nd line winger + top C prospect) and lost out to LA's stronger offer during negotiations. I heard nothing to make me believe the Flyers would have taken Torontos package over LA's.

Either way its a comparable package for a comparable player. And I switched out Frattin for a 2nd, which will hopefully help a little.

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08-28-2012, 03:07 AM
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Originally Posted by weak5holeguy View Post
This pretty much. Except I don't view Pavelski as a 1B centre, 2A guy, Similar to Grabovski. A little less offensive skill then Grabovski but a better all around player. They would be battling each other for 1C if they were on the same team.

Kulemin,Franson,Colborne, for Pavelski, 3rd.
I guess calling him a 2a rather then 1b is somewhat accurate although his numbers espcially in the playoffs suggest 1b but his play kind of suggest 2a. But I don't know how many of those points are due to playing on a stacked offensive team because I don't watch him play on the daily. If we bring him over we would definetly use him as a number 1 but Garbo is more suited for our number 2 for sure. Doesn't really make sense to target pavelski IMO

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08-28-2012, 03:12 AM
  #22
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Richards and Pavelski are really comparable IMO, with Richards' only real advantage being physicality. I also think that Kulemin has lost considerable value since last year.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but Kulemin + Kadri wasn't enough to get Richards. The way I remember it Burke never officially turned down the offer, he just counter-proposed a weaker one and lost out to LA's stronger one.

Either way its a comparable package for a comparable player. And I switched out Frattin for a 2nd, which will hopefully help a little.
The physicality might be what separates them but it is a huge separation. Richards is a physical player and a true leader, proved it on many different occasions, such as Philly LA and team team Canada. The offer was kadri and kulemin and Burke said maybe, in the mean time LA offered their package. If burke said yes it would have been a done deal. To be honest kulemin lost value but most people will agree he is more a 30 goal two way player then a 10 goal confused guy. He lost a really good friend in the plane crash last season and had a bad year, but he should rebound. He also has a physical upside which he hasn't realized yet and plays a strong game while having an amaing shot.

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08-28-2012, 03:14 AM
  #23
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I guess calling him a 2a rather then 1b is somewhat accurate although his numbers espcially in the playoffs suggest 1b but his play kind of suggest 2a. But I don't know how many of those points are due to playing on a stacked offensive team because I don't watch him play on the daily. If we bring him over we would definetly use him as a number 1 but Garbo is more suited for our number 2 for sure. Doesn't really make sense to target pavelski IMO
I'm not a Leafs fan so maybe you can help me out here, but why wouldn't it make sense to target him? IMO him and Stastny are the two perfect 1A centers for Toronto to target.

Also, I think his defensive game makes him a 1A like Bergeron, Richards, Kesler or Backes. He might be the worst of the 5 of them, but like the others Pavelski can be relied on to take top matchups and still put up 50-60 points.

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08-28-2012, 03:16 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by LuckyLager View Post
There should be good potential for a deal here. I'll give it a shot.

To Toronto: Pavelski
To San Jose: Kulemin, Kadri, 2nd

Toronto gets their potential #1 C and San Jose gets much needed depth/prospects to trade from a position of strength.

**Edited Frattin for a 2nd
I'm on the fence with this deal. I have no problem getting rid of Kulemin or the 2nd, I think this is the year Kadri makes the club, I think Kadri will be a beast of a player a year or two which makes me tentative to make this deal.

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08-28-2012, 03:20 AM
  #25
Leafs87
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I'm not a Leafs fan so maybe you can help me out here, but why wouldn't it make sense to target him? IMO him and Stastny are the two perfect 1A centers for Toronto to target.

Also, I think his defensive game makes him a 1A like Bergeron, Richards, Kesler or Backes. He might be the worst of the 5 of them, but like the others Pavelski can be relied on to take top matchups and still put up 50-60 points.
He lacks the physical game and meaness to make him as valuable as backes or kesler would be to us and lacks the true playing making ability to make him someone we would be willing to part with a huge package for. he's not a bad player in any way but not what we would over pay for essentially.

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