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Old
08-28-2012, 03:24 AM
  #26
The Newfoundlander
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyLager View Post
I'm not a Leafs fan so maybe you can help me out here, but why wouldn't it make sense to target him? IMO him and Stastny are the two perfect 1A centers for Toronto to target.

Also, I think his defensive game makes him a 1A like Bergeron, Richards, Kesler or Backes. He might be the worst of the 5 of them, but like the others Pavelski can be relied on to take top matchups and still put up 50-60 points.
1A centers are supposed to put up 70pts minimum, He might playing alongside Kessel and Lupul, But he's never been a 70pt player ever. I know pavelski is a great 2-way player which helps his value tremendously and he would compliment Kessel and Lupul pretty well I would think.

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08-28-2012, 03:46 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by weak5holeguy View Post
1A centers are supposed to put up 70pts minimum, He might playing alongside Kessel and Lupul, But he's never been a 70pt player ever. I know pavelski is a great 2-way player which helps his value tremendously and he would compliment Kessel and Lupul pretty well I would think.
So you think there are only 9 1A centers in the league? Because that's how many scored a minimum of 70 point last year.

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Old
08-28-2012, 03:49 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weak5holeguy View Post
1A centers are supposed to put up 70pts minimum
Is this, like, official? I view a 1A as a guy who can dependably check the other teams top line and still put up 60 points consistently. 60pts consistently without top line calibur defensive play gets you designated a 1B in my books. 70+ consistently is a true #1, and anything under 50 points and you're probably a #2.

At least that's my opinion.

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Old
08-28-2012, 04:02 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Leafs87 View Post
The physicality might be what separates them but it is a huge separation. Richards is a physical player and a true leader, proved it on many different occasions, such as Philly LA and team team Canada. The offer was kadri and kulemin and Burke said maybe, in the mean time LA offered their package. If burke said yes it would have been a done deal. To be honest kulemin lost value but most people will agree he is more a 30 goal two way player then a 10 goal confused guy. He lost a really good friend in the plane crash last season and had a bad year, but he should rebound. He also has a physical upside which he hasn't realized yet and plays a strong game while having an amaing shot.
Do you really think Holmgren made an official offer, or do you you think maybe he was just saying it would need to be based around Kadri and Kulemin, and would Burke be interested?

I cant believe that Holmgren either:

A) would officially offer Richards to Burke without talking to LA

Or

B) preferred Kadri + Kulemin over Schenn + Simmonds

Therefore I believe that Holmgren was only sending out feelers with that discussed proposal, and not trying to close the deal. Are any of my facts/assumptions invalid?

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Old
08-28-2012, 04:13 AM
  #30
The Newfoundlander
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
So you think there are only 9 1A centers in the league? Because that's how many scored a minimum of 70 point last year.
ANA- Getzlaf
BOS-
BUF-
CAL-
CAR-E.Staal
CHI-Toews
COL-Statsny (Just Barely)
CBJ-
DAL-
DET-Datsyuk,Zetterberg
EDM-
FLA-
LA-Kopitar,M.Richards
Min-Koivu
MTL-
NSH-
NJ-
NYI-Tavares
NYR-B.Richards
OTT-Spezza
PHI-Giroux
PHO-
PIT-Crosby,Malkin
SJ-Thornton
STL-
TB-Stamkos,Lecavalier(Just barely)
TOR-
VAN- H.Sedin
WSH-Backstrom
WPG-

20 actually, Remember this is all my opinion of course. Stats aren't everything, There's other intangibles

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Old
08-28-2012, 04:48 AM
  #31
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So in your mind a 1A center is no different than a true #1? IMO all those guys are true #1's, expect for the obvious exceptions of M. Richards, Lecavalier and Stastny, who aren't currently 70 point players.

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Old
08-28-2012, 05:11 AM
  #32
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Yeah, I think Toronto would have to add either Kadri, Gardiner or a 2013 1st in order to get Pavelski.

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Old
08-28-2012, 08:41 AM
  #33
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Quantity =/= Quality.

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Old
08-28-2012, 09:23 AM
  #34
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San Jose is really deep on the right side on defense (Boyle, Burns, Demers, Braun). I can't see any reason for them to trade for Franson.

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Old
08-28-2012, 09:36 AM
  #35
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San Jose isn't interested in giving up Pavelski if he is the best player in the deal.

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Old
08-28-2012, 10:06 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyLager View Post
Ahh so the conventional Leafs style proposal, as opposed to a realistic one? Okay...
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyLager View Post
There should be good potential for a deal here. I'll give it a shot.

To Toronto: Pavelski
To San Jose: Kulemin, Kadri, 2nd

Toronto gets their potential #1 C and San Jose gets much needed depth/prospects to trade from a position of strength.

**Edited Frattin for a 2nd
You must be a Leafs fan too then....

If we wanted a 60ish point #1 centre we'd be happy using Grabovski there.

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Old
08-28-2012, 10:23 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrch View Post
San Jose isn't interested in giving up Pavelski if he is the best player in the deal.
^this^. We will only trade him in a package for a better player or a huge overpayment.

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Old
08-28-2012, 10:25 AM
  #38
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San Jose wouldn't do that. Not enough established players coming back.

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Old
08-28-2012, 10:38 AM
  #39
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No Chance

Quote:
Originally Posted by stryfe604 View Post
Here on HF Leafs fans got a (well deserved) reputation of offering quantity over quality. Where as 3 5.5C players should equal a 7.5C - 8C.

For Pavelski your trade would need to have a top end prospect or young player to get Pavelski. So from this list you would need to pick 2: Kulemin/Kadri/Frattin/Franson. Throw in a third, while SJ throws in a second, and you might be closer to what SJ would be looking for.

SJ: 2 of Kulemin/Kadri/Frattin/Franson, 3rd Round Pick

Toronto: Pavelski, 2nd Round Pick
Pavelski at 28 just had his 1st 30 goal season but is undersized and doesn't play a hard nose game. Kulemin at 25 will have a bounce back year and plays hard. Frattin will make believers out of a lot of people this year and hits like a truck. Franson is going to be a quality 5 or 6 under Carlyle and Kadri is the "Great White Hope".

Look at who Pavelski plays with and heck even Bozak at 47 points in 73 games looks like he is getting better each year. No thanks to this trade.

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Old
08-28-2012, 10:43 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MapleReef View Post
Pavelski at 28 just had his 1st 30 goal season but is undersized and doesn't play a hard nose game. Kulemin at 25 will have a bounce back year and plays hard. Frattin will make believers out of a lot of people this year and hits like a truck. Franson is going to be a quality 5 or 6 under Carlyle and Kadri is the "Great White Hope".

Look at who Pavelski plays with and heck even Bozak at 47 points in 73 games looks like he is getting better each year. No thanks to this trade.
It doesn't matter who he plays with. He will put up at least 60pts and 25gs. His best year points wise came when he was playing most of the year on the 3rd line.

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Old
08-28-2012, 10:46 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrch View Post
San Jose isn't interested in giving up Pavelski if he is the best player in the deal.
This really sums in all up doesn't it?

We have no need for Franson since he's right-handed (Boyle, Burns, Demers, Braun). We have no need for Bozak since we have too many centermen to begin with.

And we're not trying to get younger by trading our 1st line winger entering his prime years.

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Old
08-28-2012, 10:51 AM
  #42
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Well gee, I'm not seeing a whole lot of appeal here for San Jose.
Just like every trade proposal involving them

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Old
08-28-2012, 10:56 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weak5holeguy View Post
To Toronto: Joe Pavelski

To San Jose: Tyler Bozak, Jesse Blacker, Cody Franson,

San Jose gets younger, Toronto gets a player who can play C/RW in the top 6
Disastrous trade for San Jose.

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Old
08-28-2012, 10:57 AM
  #44
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Missing the Point

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatrick Marleau View Post
It doesn't matter who he plays with. He will put up at least 60pts and 25gs. His best year points wise came when he was playing most of the year on the 3rd line.
Point is Kulemin is good for 60 points too so how is this trade worth adding Frattin or Kadri? Both of these guys are 4-6 years younger than Pavelski with the same upside when they hit his age.

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Old
08-28-2012, 11:12 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by MapleReef View Post
Point is Kulemin is good for 60 points too so how is this trade worth adding Frattin or Kadri? Both of these guys are 4-6 years younger than Pavelski with the same upside when they hit his age.
He has only gone over 40 points once and has never gotten 60 points. What on earth are you talking about?

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Old
08-28-2012, 11:55 AM
  #46
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Pavelski is a 1B center, that being said I'd do this easily. It would be wise of us to keep Blacker though, he is a lot better than his trade value and we should let him develop.

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08-28-2012, 11:56 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by MapleReef View Post
Point is Kulemin is good for 60 points too so how is this trade worth adding Frattin or Kadri? Both of these guys are 4-6 years younger than Pavelski with the same upside when they hit his age.
Kulemin had 28 points last year.

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Old
08-28-2012, 12:13 PM
  #48
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Kulemin had 28 points last year.
And the year before he had 30 goals. He played poorly the first couple months of the year but after that he just couldn't buy a goal, completely snake bit all year but still good defensively and strong on the boards.

He's still not worth Pavelski straight up but his 28 points last year aren't a good measure of the player he is/will be.

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Old
08-28-2012, 12:14 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Paradingwolves View Post
And the year before he had 30 goals. He played poorly the first couple months of the year but after that he just couldn't buy a goal, completely snake bit all year but still good defensively and strong on the boards.

He's still not worth Pavelski straight up but his 28 points last year aren't a good measure of the player he is/will be.
And his 30 goals probably aren't a good measure of the player he is either. Probably closer to something in the middle which puts him around a 40 point player which is about what he is.

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Old
08-28-2012, 12:21 PM
  #50
Paradingwolves
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
And his 30 goals probably aren't a good measure of the player he is either. Probably closer to something in the middle which puts him around a 40 point player which is about what he is.
Probably, a good two way 20-20 guy with speed and strength. Just the gap between him and Pavelski isn't Kadri and a 2nd. Maybe a mid first, early 2nd. But I'm in agreement that SJ wants to win and they won't trade Pavelski for a downgrade plus a pick/prospect.

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